How does it go? Christ the Sabbath Rest...

[Notrash]

Heb 4:8,9 referred to a rest from the persecution of the judaizers AND a rest frim seekung blessing through the misaic law by adhering to the law of faith.

 

[mog144]

I am having an issue here...

1. The Sabbath Rest, instituted by God in the Old Covenant as a day of rest from all physical labor and toil...except for the ministration of the priests, they still had to perform their daily mandates EVERY day, even on the Sabbath.

2. Christ is said to be the fulfillment of the Law, which includes the Sabbath day of rest.

3. Scripture seems to allude to this rest in Christ being "rest from working for eternal life," which seems ludicrous to me because eternal life was never a promise, nor provided for, in the Old Covenant. The OC Sabbath rest had to do with rest from physical work and toil, not working to please God so they could be saved.

4. So my dilemma is this: where does the Sabbath rest from daily toil and physical labor turn into spiritual rest in Christ from "working for salvation?"

I don't see it, does anyone have insight into this?

Thanks, and blessings to all!

The 'REST' is an amalgamation of two spirits into ONE; and this is easily illustrated as: 6+1=7

The 6 is the male and the NT Covenant Law and the 1 is woman who represents the Mosaic Law in which the two establish ONE law and in the form of Two Witnesses. The contrast is so that men and women may distinguish the proper balance between the two and be in step with Christ.

Apart from the Covenant, the man and woman stand naked as 6 and 1, and don't equate to the RESTing in His Seventh-day Covenant that was established in Creation of the human mind where He wrote His Two Laws before they were equated by men's violation of this spiritual balancing act.

Men and women will equate in Him when they return to His Order in Law.

...

 

[Crypto]

I am having an issue here...

1. The Sabbath Rest, instituted by God in the Old Covenant as a day of rest from all physical labor and toil...except for the ministration of the priests, they still had to perform their daily mandates EVERY day, even on the Sabbath.

2. Christ is said to be the fulfillment of the Law, which includes the Sabbath day of rest.

3. Scripture seems to allude to this rest in Christ being "rest from working for eternal life," which seems ludicrous to me because eternal life was never a promise, nor provided for, in the Old Covenant. The OC Sabbath rest had to do with rest from physical work and toil, not working to please God so they could be saved.

4. So my dilemma is this: where does the Sabbath rest from daily toil and physical labor turn into spiritual rest in Christ from "working for salvation?"

I don't see it, does anyone have insight into this?

Thanks, and blessings to all!

Trying to fulfill the law of Moses was a toil that Jews had to endure for centuries, and that many people who ignore the Gospel still endure up to this day. Jesus is a rest for that toil, since in Jesus we are saved by grace and, therefore, we are not subjected to the hardships of the law anymore. If we are in Jesus, we have rested from our works (the works of the law). Moreover, Jesus is the culmination of the work of restoration that God performed on mankind (as the first Sabbath was the culmination of the work of creation that God performed on the universe). In Jesus everything is perfected. Through the sacrifice of Jesus, the perfect relationship between God and mankind was created. This is the second act of creation in which our universe is involved, and the most important one.
By the way, the prophets always knew about the resurrection and the book of Life (wherein the names of the redeemed are written). Check this:

"So Moses returned to the Lord and said, “Alas, this people has sinned a great sin. They have made for themselves gods of gold. But now, if you will forgive their sin—but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written.” But the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book" (Exodus 32:31-33)

"Let them be blotted out of the book of the living;
let them not be enrolled among the righteous." (Psalm 69:28)

 

[coraline]

Heb 4:8,9 referred to a rest from the persecution of the judaizers AND a rest frim seekung blessing through the misaic law by adhering to the law of faith.

Yes, Hebrews 4 explains "God's Rest" for us.

Hebrews 4:1 (NKJV) Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.​

Keep in mind, this is written to believers, to people that were, "holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling" (3:1). It follows from the tragic example of Israel that these New Testament believers should also take warning, because the promise of entering His rest still stands. The words "come short of" are the translation of a verb which could be rendered either "should seem to have fallen short" or "should think that he has fallen short or come too late." The historical background and the context are decisive for the last, since the following context seems dedicated to demonstrating that God's rest is still open. The danger is that some of his hearers may cast away their faith, and to do so is to miss entering the promised rest.

Hebrews 4:2 (NKJV) For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.​

The word "gospel" is the Greek word euaggelizo, a verb which means: "to announce good news." The character of the good news must be defined by the context. "Gospel" doesn't always mean the plan of salvation. This verb was fully capable of having a non-technical sense in the New Testament as in:

1 Thessalonians 3:6 (NKJV) But now that Timothy has come to us from you, and brought us good news [euaggelizo] of your faith and love, and that you always have good remembrance of us, greatly desiring to see us, as we also to see you;​

In Hebrews 4:2, it is used of good news of the promised rest as in:

Hebrews 4:6 (NKJV) Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached [euaggelizo] did not enter because of disobedience,​

Verse 2 says, "...the gospel was preached to us as well as to them...." - "us" is the writer of Hebrews and its readers, and "them" refers to Israel in the wilderness. The "good news" they heard about was of no value to them, because of their lack of faith. The Israelites heard "good news" from Joshua and Caleb, the two spies who encouraged the people to enter the good land (Numbers 13:30, 14:7-9).

Numbers 14:7-9 (NKJV) and they spoke to all the congregation of the children of Israel, saying: "The land we passed through to spy out is an exceedingly good land. 8 "If the LORD delights in us, then He will bring us into this land and give it to us, 'a land which flows with milk and honey.' 9 "Only do not rebel against the LORD, nor fear the people of the land, for they are our bread; their protection has departed from them, and the LORD is with us. Do not fear them."​

What was the good news preached to them? It was the good news of God's promise that God would bring them into the land of milk and honey and be with them if they would trust him and not rebel. But this good news was not "mixed with faith"; it was not believed. It was interpreted to be bad news, for they were convinced that if they entered the land, they would be "devoured" by its inhabitants (Numbers 13:32). Because the good news was not believed, it was of no benefit to them.
The end of Hebrews 4:2 should read, "...not being united by faith with those who heard...." an allusion to Joshua and Caleb.
The point is: this good news was not believed by Israel, and so they did not enter God's rest, God's promised joy. They doubted God. They distrusted him. They did not have faith in his promise to give them a better future than they had in Egypt, and so they gave up on God and wanted the old life. And what was the result of that unbelief? Verse 2 says: the promise "did not profit them." It was of no value to them. They did not enter God's rest. They fell in the wilderness.
So the point of verse 2 is exactly the same as the point of 3:19 - it's a reason why we should fear unbelief (Verse 19: "They were not able to enter because of unbelief.") Therefore, (v. 1) fear unbelief, because (v. 2) when the good news to Israel was not united to faith, it profited them nothing, and they perished in the wilderness. The main point is: fear this happening to you. Fear hearing the promises of God and not trusting them, because the same thing will happen to us as to them; we will not enter into God's rest if we do not trust his promises.
That's the main point of the paragraph: Fear unbelief. In the last sentence of the paragraph, he says the same thing in different words:

Hebrews 4:11 (NKJV) Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.​

The word "diligent" is the Greek word spoudazo. It means: "to exert one's self, endeavor, give diligence." The verb speaks of intensity of purpose followed by intensity of effort toward the realization of that purpose. The words "let us"are first person plural expressing the writer's oneness with the readers and in effect issuing a warning not only to them but to himself as well. Thus the thought returns to the necessity of holding onto their Christian profession to the end.
In other words, Israel fell from the promised joy of God because of the disobedience of unbelief. And the same thing can happen to the Hebrew Christians. To keep it from happening, he says, "Be diligent to enter God's rest." Be diligent! Pay close attention to what you've heard (2:1); don't neglect your great salvation (2:3); consider Jesus (3:1); do not harden your hearts (3:8); take care against an unbelieving heart (3:12); exhort one another every day against the deceitfulness of sin (3:14); and FEAR the unbelief that will keep you from your promised rest (4:1).
Verses 3-10 are written to support the main point which we have looked at in verses 1 and 11, namely, be diligent to enter God's rest and fear lest you fail to enter it because of unbelief. The way verses 3-10 support this main point is by showing from the Old Testament that there is a rest to enter into - that is, that God has a plan for his people to join him in the wonderful rest. The text is very complicated.

Hebrews 4:3 (NKJV) For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest,' " although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.​

It is those who believe who enter rest. The concept of belief here should be taken in context of:

Hebrews 3:12 (NKJV) Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;​

Hebrews 3:19 (NKJV) So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.​

It is not that they didn't have faith and were unbelievers, it was that their faith was failing because of persecution.

Hebrews 4:4 (NKJV) For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works";​

The writer quotes from Genesis 2:2, which notes that God rested on the seventh day after having completed his work in creation. The fact that God rested on the seventh day became the basis for his gift of the Sabbath to Israel (Exodus 20:11). In resting on the seventh day, the Israelites were to imitate God. The purpose of resting was to recognize God's work in redeeming them from Egypt (Exodus 31:13, Deuteronomy 5:15). So God wanted the Israelites to rest in order to recognize him.

Hebrews 4:5 (NKJV) and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest."​

The promised land is a picture of God's ultimate rest, and their unbelieving rebellion excludes them from it. Which raises the question whether there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. Was the time of Joshua, who took the people into the promised land, the final, ultimate rest God had in mind for his people? Verse 8 answers no:

Hebrews 4:8 (NKJV) For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.​

"If" is a second class condition meaning: "if and it's not." It is determined as unfulfilled. A first class condition would mean: "if and it is" or "since." And a third class condition would mean:"maybe yes, maybe no." The KJV's"Jesus" is the Greek form of the Hebrew name Joshua. If Joshua had given them rest, but he didn't. The point of verse 8 is that the rest of Joshua's time is not the rest which the promise involves, that rest was just a type. How could God have offered rest in David's time, if it was already realized in Joshua's time?
In other words, even though Joshua gave some relief to the people of God in the promised land, that was not the final rest God has planned for them. How do we know that? God spoke of another day, another rest, centuries later:

Hebrews 4:7 (NKJV) again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts."​

This is a quote from Psalm 95:7. So, long after the people enjoyed the rest of the promised land, David says that God is still holding out to his people an offer of rest: "Don't harden your hearts, and you will enjoy God's rest" (referred to at the end of the Psalm).

Hebrews 4:9 (NKJV) There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.​

This is the central point of the argument of 4:1-11. This is a different Greek word for "rest". The word used here is sabbatismos, which is the word used of the Sabbath rest.
The Sabbath and the land are linked once again here, for in verse 8, the writer spoke of Joshua, whose work concerned the land, but verse 9 is linked to verse 8 by use of the word "therefore" and speaks of the Sabbath, not the land.
It is natural to think of the Sabbath day when we hear or read the word "rest". When first introduced to the nation of Israel, it was spoken of as "the rest of the holy Sabbath unto the LORD" (Ex. 16:23). This was the seventh day rest, patterned after God's own rest following the creation (Gen 2:2). It was encoded into the Law given on tablets of stone (cf. Ex. 20:8-11). But the Sabbath as a day of rest was given only to the nation of Israel. It was not given to the nation's fathers (i.e., ancestors such as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob) (Deut. 5:2-22; Neh. 9:13-14). It was given to Israel as a weekly remembrance of their deliverance from Egypt (Deut. 5:12-15). The only Gentiles ever commanded to keep the Sabbath were those living among the Israelites in Canaan ("your stranger who is within your gates").
The Sabbath day, like the rest of the Old Law, has been done away. It was nailed to the cross (cf. Ep 2:14-15; Co 2:14). As part of "the ministry of death" (the Old Covenant), it has been replaced by "the ministry of the Spirit" (the New Covenant) (2 Co 3:5-8,11). It is now a matter of indifference to God, left to one's individual conscience, and not to be bound on anyone (cf. Ro 14:4-6; Co 2:16-17).
In verse 10, the writer explains the contemporary meaning of Sabbath rest.
Entering into this rest, God's rest, means resting from one's works. What works does one rest from? One rests from his works as God rested from his. How did God rest? God rested by blessing the seventh day and setting it apart for relationship with humanity. Rest doesn't mean absence of activity, then; it means: "enjoyment of the relationship"
So, the "rest" spoken of in our text refers to the New Heavens and New Earth, the New Covenant Age. The Old Covenant was about to end with the destruction of the Jewish temple in AD 70, thus ending the Jewish persecution against Christians and bringing the consummation of the New Covenant age. Those believers who grew weak in faith turned back to Judaism and were most likely killed in the destruction of Jerusalem. Moses and Joshua did not provide this "rest", which is just another reason why the Hebrew Christian should not forsake Jesus and return to Judaism. The writer of Hebrews encourages them to hang on to their faith lest they turn back to Judaism and loose their life in Jerusalem's destruction.
What does this text mean to us?
We already live in the New Covenant age, the New Heavens and Earth; so how does this text apply to us? I think that we can apply this text by using "rest" as faith-rest. If we do not trust God, if we grow weak in faith, we will lose the temporal benefits of the New Covenant age. By that I mean, we will lose our fellowship with God and come under His chastening hand. As we draw near to God in faith, we "rest" in His care. ~ BereabBibleChurch

 

[coraline]

Matthew 11:25-30 (NKJV)

Jesus Gives True Rest

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. 26 Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. 28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

 

[herelisasendme]

I am having an issue here...

1. The Sabbath Rest, instituted by God in the Old Covenant as a day of rest from all physical labor and toil...except for the ministration of the priests, they still had to perform their daily mandates EVERY day, even on the Sabbath.

2. Christ is said to be the fulfillment of the Law, which includes the Sabbath day of rest.

3. Scripture seems to allude to this rest in Christ being "rest from working for eternal life," which seems ludicrous to me because eternal life was never a promise, nor provided for, in the Old Covenant. The OC Sabbath rest had to do with rest from physical work and toil, not working to please God so they could be saved.

4. So my dilemma is this: where does the Sabbath rest from daily toil and physical labor turn into spiritual rest in Christ from "working for salvation?"

I don't see it, does anyone have insight into this?

Thanks, and blessings to all!

Wow, you have all wrong, and nothing from the Bible, but from many "pastors"
that are deceived.
First of all, like you said God create the Sabbath; Is part of creation, God blessed and made that day only "Holy" (Gen. 2: 1-3)

Now God did not made the Sabbath Holy and blessed for himself, but He gave this day to us, as a memorial of His creation. Now there are many who confuse the Sabbath as a day of relaxation, when in reality means cessation. Notice that it was blessed, the blessing on the seventh day implied that it was thereby declared to be a special objet of divine favor and a day that would bring blessing to His creatures.

He sanctified this day or made it holy, holy means set apart for holy purposes.

Anyway in that day you don't do any work, why? Because God want us to have a very special day with Him, even that we are suppose to worship Him every day, the seventh is special relationship with Him. In another words, This act of blessing the seventh day and declaring it holy was done in the interest of the human race, for whose benefit the Sabbath day was instituted.


On the number 2; you said that is said the Christ is the fulfillment of the law. What that means? The ten commandments were "nailed to the cross"?

I believe that you are using the verse in Matt. 5: 17,18; and the only word that people wants to see is "fulfill" as void or ended! Please read carefully:

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

Why He will say "think NOT that I came to destroy" and yet people wants to see it as ended? Did you see verse 18? It says "by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled" meaning "till heaven and earth pass away" It just not pass away yet my friend.

I want you to think in the word "fulfill" is the same Greek word use in Matt. 3:15 'But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.”

Is the word fulfill means make invalid, or abolish, or to annul; Then in this verse Jesus is saying that righteousness is abolish? Come on.


Again in number 3 of your question; Is not the act of not doing anything, or not working that can save you, please no, no. In that day you do good, in that day you work for God, with God; Is that close relationship with the creator that saves you. The Sabbath has well been compared to a bridge thrown across life's troubled waters, over which we may pass to reach the opposite shore, a link between earth and heaven, a type of the eternal day when those who are true to God shall put on forever the robe of immortal holiness and joy.


Number 4 question. In a personal sense the Sabbath comes as a reminder that amid the pressing cares of life we ought not to forget God. To enter fully into the spirit of the Sabbath is to find a valuable aid in obeying the rest of the Decalogue. The special attention and devotion given on this day of rest to God and to things of eternal value provide reserve power for victory over the evils against which we are warned in the other commandments.

God bless you.

 

[herelisasendme]

Some people still wants to use Col 2:14 as the end of the "Ten Commandments" It just does not make sense at all.... What was contrary to us? Do not kill? Or honor your father and mother? Love God only? Do not commit adultery?.... So, what was nailed to the cross?

Now let’s take a closer look at the ceremonial ordinances that Moses wrote in the book. They were to repose in the “side of the ark ... for a witness against thee.” It is interesting to note that the curses and judgments of this law spelled out penalties for transgression which were totally missing from the Ten Commandments. For this reason, the ceremonial law was considered to be a law which was “against” them. That is why in New Testament we read in reference to that law. “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross” (Colossians 2:14).

Certainly there was nothing in the Ten-Commandment law that could be defined as “contrary” to Paul and the church to whom he was writing. It was not “against” those early Christians to refrain from adultery, theft, lying, etc. On the other hand, that moral law was a tremendous protection to them and favored every interest in their lives. We have only to read Paul’s exalted description of the Ten-Commandment law to recognize that those eternal principles were never blotted out or nailed to the cross. After quoting the tenth commandment of the decalogue in Romans 7:7, Paul wrote these words, “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good” (verse 12). Then he continued in verse 14, “For we know that the law is spiritual ...”

 

[Colossians]

Herelis,


Now let’s take a closer look at the ceremonial ordinances that Moses wrote in the book. They were to repose in the “side of the ark ... for a witness against thee.”
That book, was the Torah.

The Torah, contained the decalogue (that is where you got it from yourself, unless of course you've found the ark, which is unlikely).

So that it was put in the side of the ark, is irrelevant: it contained the 10ccs. It was simply put in the side of the ark because the ark itself was not allowed to be opened. So it was the 'reference copy'.





Certainly there was nothing in the Ten-Commandment law that could be defined as “contrary” to Paul and the church to whom he was writing. It was not “against” those early Christians to refrain from adultery, theft, lying, etc.
To the contrary, to be told to do or not do anything, is contrary to life. For law cannot produce life, and the woman which is the church, is only made perfect by being free to be imperfect: that is the nature of woman. (If you don't believe me, ask your wife. Better still, give her a list of good rules which tell her for her own good what she is not allowed to do, and let us know how hard you were hit in the head with a rolling pin about 30 seconds later.)

So you are focusing on the wrong thing: you are focusing on the particular directives of the law, rather than its modality. It is the (deontic) modality of law which makes it contrary to us.

 

[Jade777]

let's look at the sabbath command:

Exodus 20:8-11 ( NKJV ) 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

part of the sabbath command is to work.

so, we work doing our hustling and bustling daily toil and then we are to rest on the seventh day, which is God's sabbath.

now, it translates into the spiritual, in that, man as a whole is going to rest from his works - works of the flesh (rom 1:29-31, gal 5:19-21, 1 cor 6:9-10), in the millennium.

so, there is a rest for man that the sabbath points to (heb 4:9).

I agree with JohnRabbit here, nicely done .

Just a few more verses in support of this:

3 We who have believed are soon to be admitted to the true rest; as He has said, "As I swore in My anger, they shall not be admitted to My rest," although God's works had been going on ever since the creation of the world. 4 For, as we know, when speaking of the seventh day He has used the words, "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works;" 5 and He has also declared, "They shall not be admitted to My rest." 6 Since, then, it is still true that some will be admitted to that rest, and that because of disobedience those who formerly had Good News proclaimed to them were not admitted,... 9 It follows that there still remains a sabbath rest for the people of God. 10 For He who has been admitted to His rest, has rested from His works as God did from His. 11 Let it then be our earnest endeavour to be admitted to that rest, so that no one may perish through following the same example of unbelief. Weymouth (Hebrews 4:3-6, 9-11, Weymouth.

It seems the physical sabbath commandment and the Israelite's entry into the holy land serves as a precursor or example for the spiritual future rest in the millennium; liberation from toil and labour caused by man's sin in Genesis and its consequences (Hebrews 3 & 4).

​

 

[rstrats]

msortwell,

re: "The Jews do, in fact, count time differently than we do. "

I'm afraid I don't see how that is relevant to my comments in post #8.


re: "Then, in John 20:26, it says that eight days later, He appeared again in the midst of His disciples."

What day would it have been if the writer had said "1 day later"?

 

[from scratch]

I am having an issue here...

1. The Sabbath Rest, instituted by God in the Old Covenant as a day of rest from all physical labor and toil...except for the ministration of the priests, they still had to perform their daily mandates EVERY day, even on the Sabbath.

2. Christ is said to be the fulfillment of the Law, which includes the Sabbath day of rest.

3. Scripture seems to allude to this rest in Christ being "rest from working for eternal life," which seems ludicrous to me because eternal life was never a promise, nor provided for, in the Old Covenant. The OC Sabbath rest had to do with rest from physical work and toil, not working to please God so they could be saved.

4. So my dilemma is this: where does the Sabbath rest from daily toil and physical labor turn into spiritual rest in Christ from "working for salvation?"

I don't see it, does anyone have insight into this?

Thanks, and blessings to all!

What is God's rest? God doesn't get tired. Did God return to work after the 7th day? Does Man? Is there a difference? I think so. God didn't take a break from work, He ceased working. Man returns to work after the 7th day.

So what is God's rest the Israelites couldn't enter even though they had a rest day every week?

 

[listed]

What is God's rest? God doesn't get tired. Did God return to work after the 7th day? Does Man? Is there a difference? I think so. God didn't take a break from work, He ceased working. Man returns to work after the 7th day.

So what is God's rest the Israelites couldn't enter even though they had a rest day every week?

At least you are consistent. I did not see anybody else with this kind of idea. Well maybe one on second thought. I did not see a response to this yet. Is it totally out of the ball park or something?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by from scratch

What is God's rest? God doesn't get tired. Did God return to work after the 7th day? Does Man? Is there a difference? I think so. God didn't take a break from work, He ceased working. Man returns to work after the 7th day.

So what is God's rest the Israelites couldn't enter even though they had a rest day every week?
​

According to Jesus, that is true

John 5:17 ESV
But Jesus answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I am working."




.

 

[isleof]

What is God's rest? God doesn't get tired. Did God return to work after the 7th day? Does Man? Is there a difference? I think so. God didn't take a break from work, He ceased working. Man returns to work after the 7th day.

So what is God's rest the Israelites couldn't enter even though they had a rest day every week?

Vanity of vanities.

 

[ebedmelech]

Are we believing that we are set free from the curse of the Law?

Paul clearly tells us we are free from keeping days...Clolossians 2:16, 17:
16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—
17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

The 4th commandment is fulfilled in Christ. That is the point! Everyday belongs to the Lord!

Romans 14:5, 6:
5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

This should not be an issue. If a fellow Christian thinks they should obey the Sabbath, let them. However don't let them put that burden on you. If you believe you are free from keeping the Sabbath, don't keep it.

Just as if you go to a church that worships on Sunday because Christ was raised on Sunday that's fine. However if a church decides to worship on Tuesday, they're free to choose that day.

This is the freedom we have in Christ!!!

 

[rstrats]

ebedmelech,


re: "Paul clearly tells us we are free from keeping days...Clolossians 2:16, 17:"

re: "Romans 14:5,6:"




How do you know that Paul wasn't simply telling the Colossians that they should not let anyone - other than the body of Christ, which is the church - criticize them for HOW they were observing the things mentioned in verse 16?

Paul does not say "the substance belongs to Christ"; this is a mistranslation and misinterpretation of the Greek. Paul wrote "but the body of Christ" meaning the church. That is, the church is to be doing the judging not the outside critics who were trying to force their ascetic values onto the church.

How can you absolutely say that Paul wasn't telling the body of believer's to not let anyone judge them because the believers chose to be obedient to scripture by eating what is commanded (not eating swine etc.), and chose to observe the Feasts as commanded in scripture (not the pagan ones), and chose to observed the seventh day Sabbath (not the pagan sun-worship day) as commanded in scripture?


As for Romans 14:5, the subject of the chapter from start to finish has to do with what people eat. Paul is writing about asceticism. Some in the church at Rome believed Christians should eat only vegetables. Paul calls these people "weak in the faith" (verses 1-2). The stronger in faith know they could also eat meat. Nothing in God's law prescribes vegetarianism. The stronger in faith knew they were free from non-biblical asceticism. A part of the controversy that had sprung up between the weak and the strong Christians was the esteeming of days. In Rome some people had the pagan idea that on certain days certain foods should or should not be eaten. In this whole chapter Paul was just showing that others should not be offended, particularly weak members who have not yet learned the truth about the proper Christian diet and that they should not be judged by the stronger in the faith. This passage has nothing to do with the Sabbath.

 

[ebedmelech]

ebedmelech,


re: "Paul clearly tells us we are free from keeping days...Clolossians 2:16, 17:"

re: "Romans 14:5,6:"




How do you know that Paul wasn't simply telling the Colossians that they should not let anyone - other than the body of Christ, which is the church - criticize them for HOW they were observing the things mentioned in verse 16?

Paul does not say "the substance belongs to Christ"; this is a mistranslation and misinterpretation of the Greek. Paul wrote "but the body of Christ" meaning the church. That is, the church is to be doing the judging not the outside critics who were trying to force their ascetic values onto the church.

How can you absolutely say that Paul wasn't telling the body of believer's to not let anyone judge them because the believers chose to be obedient to scripture by eating what is commanded (not eating swine etc.), and chose to observe the Feasts as commanded in scripture (not the pagan ones), and chose to observed the seventh day Sabbath (not the pagan sun-worship day) as commanded in scripture?

I know because of the conistency of scripture Colossians 2 is not the only place Paul does this. Now you can say what Paul said is a mistranslation, but the preponderance of the translation evidence says you're wrong. "Substance and "body" are perfectly fine ways to render the passage they both make the point that Christ is the "sabbath". Christ was substance (tangible). This is fully made clear in Hebrews 4. Examine Blue Letter Bible on this point:

Greek Lexicon :: G4983 (NASB)

As for Romans 14:5, the subject of the chapter from start to finish has to do with what people eat. Paul is writing about asceticism. Some in the church at Rome believed Christians should eat only vegetables. Paul calls these people "weak in the faith" (verses 1-2). The stronger in faith know they could also eat meat. Nothing in God's law prescribes vegetarianism. The stronger in faith knew they were free from non-biblical asceticism. A part of the controversy that had sprung up between the weak and the strong Christians was the esteeming of days. In Rome some people had the pagan idea that on certain days certain foods should or should not be eaten. In this whole chapter Paul was just showing that others should not be offended, particularly weak members who have not yet learned the truth about the proper Christian diet and that they should not be judged by the stronger in the faith. This passage has nothing to do with the Sabbath.

When you read Romans 14 all you need do is think "why is Paul making a big deal about days?". This is a perfect time for the apostle to say you need to worship on the Sabbath, he doesn't say that. Paul has labored all through Romans about the fact that the Law does not save, nor does keeping the Law save. He is now making the point of that because it's the Law that says foods are clean and unclean, and it's the Law that says keep the sabbath. Paul is clearing that up!

Also whenever the NT begins qouting portions of the Decalogue, why do they NEVER mention the 4th commandment? It's certainly isn't by chance. They KNOW Christ fulfills the sabbath. Find the sabbath day being stressed by anyone in the NT after the cross. You won't! Then ask yourself why Hebrews (which is a letter to Hebrew Christans), is saying this...Hebrews 4:3:
3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “As I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

I don't make it an issue...I know I don't have to keep the sabbath and nothing in the New Covenant says I do. The Old Covenant is abolished when Christ died.

 

[from scratch]

ebedmelech,


re: "Paul clearly tells us we are free from keeping days...Clolossians 2:16, 17:"

re: "Romans 14:5,6:"




How do you know that Paul wasn't simply telling the Colossians that they should not let anyone - other than the body of Christ, which is the church - criticize them for HOW they were observing the things mentioned in verse 16?

Paul does not say "the substance belongs to Christ"; this is a mistranslation and misinterpretation of the Greek. Paul wrote "but the body of Christ" meaning the church. That is, the church is to be doing the judging not the outside critics who were trying to force their ascetic values onto the church.

How can you absolutely say that Paul wasn't telling the body of believer's to not let anyone judge them because the believers chose to be obedient to scripture by eating what is commanded (not eating swine etc.), and chose to observe the Feasts as commanded in scripture (not the pagan ones), and chose to observed the seventh day Sabbath (not the pagan sun-worship day) as commanded in scripture?

How can anyone say Paul is telling Christians to observe the law (keep the 7th day Sabbath)? An easy reading of the New Testament shows no law (Old Covenant) for the Christian.

Check out this phrase found in the writings of Paul in Romans and Galatians - not under the law.

Check out Romans 7:6 - Now we are delivered from the law...

What about Gal 4:30 where Paul says to through out the law?

What about Gal 5:4 - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Why does anyone say the 7th day Sabbath is required of the Christian? Isn't it to be justified (found righteous)? Isn't that obligation to the law being required for salvation? What does the above verse say? It says very plainly to be justified by the law revokes grace (salvation). The requirement to keep the law (observe the 7th day Sabbath) is a false Gospel. Its not a part of orthodox Christianity.

As for Romans 14:5, the subject of the chapter from start to finish has to do with what people eat. Paul is writing about asceticism. Some in the church at Rome believed Christians should eat only vegetables. Paul calls these people "weak in the faith" (verses 1-2). The stronger in faith know they could also eat meat. Nothing in God's law prescribes vegetarianism. The stronger in faith knew they were free from non-biblical asceticism. A part of the controversy that had sprung up between the weak and the strong Christians was the esteeming of days. In Rome some people had the pagan idea that on certain days certain foods should or should not be eaten. In this whole chapter Paul was just showing that others should not be offended, particularly weak members who have not yet learned the truth about the proper Christian diet and that they should not be judged by the stronger in the faith. This passage has nothing to do with the Sabbath.

Really now? My Bible has the following in Romans 14 -

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Please explain how that has anything to do with food. Surely the passages is found in your Bible unless its a special edition. Maybe black highlighter has been used.

There is no indication in Romans 14 that certain foods are or aren't consumed on certain days. What is being done is denial of the passage I quoted. Some will do anything to promote the Sabbath (law keeping) a requirement trying to be forced on Christians to possess salvation (eternal life). This is a false Gospel.

 

[from scratch]

I know because of the conistency of scripture Colossians 2 is not the only place Paul does this. Now you can say what Paul said is a mistranslation, but the preponderance of the translation evidence says you're wrong. "Substance and "body" are perfectly fine ways to render the passage they both make the point that Christ is the "sabbath". Christ was substance (tangible). This is fully made clear in Hebrews 4. Examine Blue Letter Bible on this point:

Greek Lexicon :: G4983 (NASB)


When you read Romans 14 all you need do is think "why is Paul making a big deal about days?". This is a perfect time for the apostle to say you need to worship on the Sabbath, he doesn't say that. Paul has labored all through Romans about the fact that the Law does not save, nor does keeping the Law save. He is now making the point of that because it's the Law that says foods are clean and unclean, and it's the Law that says keep the sabbath. Paul is clearing that up!

Also whenever the NT begins qouting portions of the Decalogue, why do they NEVER mention the 4th commandment? It's certainly isn't by chance. They KNOW Christ fulfills the sabbath. Find the sabbath day being stressed by anyone in the NT after the cross. You won't! Then ask yourself why Hebrews (which is a letter to Hebrew Christans), is saying this...Hebrews 4:3:
3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “As I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

I don't make it an issue...I know I don't have to keep the sabbath and nothing in the New Covenant says I do. The Old Covenant is abolished when Christ died.

Good post!

Only those who're evangelizing the Christian say such things as the keeping of the 7th day Sabbath is a requirement. They're pushing religion not a relationship with God. Please note I said evangelizing the Christian. This means they're leading Christians to something else (effectively stealing salvation). I've never seen them once push Jesus Christ as the only means of salvation. Jesus said He is.

 

[JCFantasy23]

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