Free Will Exists Vs Free Will Does Not Exist

[elopez]

As in it's nearly heresy to insinuate it does.

Well that may be a bit of a stretch. Are you interested in the parameters I set above?

 

[elopez]

Likewise, I see here that our freedom to think, is being confused with freedom to act. If we indeed had freedom to act, then it could be said that our thoughts could be manifest by our own free will. BUT, not only could we not will our self into being, but without Christ...we can do nothing. John 15:5

Thus, the most that can be said of our freedom, is that we are free to "think", and therefore we "imagine" we have free will...but are in fact powerless to change our circumstance one cubit. Matthew 6:25-34

These are grest points you could bring up in the debate and further expalin. It is my position that free will exists, and although may be differentiated between 'freedom of thought' the two must actually coincide.

How about the guidelines I mentioned earlier? I would be going first since I am taking the affirmative, unless you would want to, which is fine too. Lenght between posts should be no longer than a full week unless we want to go with less days which I am for. I would be good with 3 rounds, again unless objected to and would like more. The length of posts I would say should not exceed 2000. Anything else?

 

[ScottA]

These are grest points you could bring up in the debate and further expalin. It is my position that free will exists, and although may be differentiated between 'freedom of thought' the two must actually coincide.

How about the guidelines I mentioned earlier? I would be going first since I am taking the affirmative, unless you would want to, which is fine too. Lenght between posts should be no longer than a full week unless we want to go with less days which I am for. I would be good with 3 rounds, again unless objected to and would like more. The length of posts I would say should not exceed 2000. Anything else?

Other than the typical comment vs. comment that is common here on the forum, I am not following your debate proposal. My two comments so far have been meant as participating in the debate...but you are referring to something in the future. I don't get it.

 

[elopez]

Other than the typical comment vs. comment that is common here on the forum, I am not following your debate proposal. My two comments so far have been meant as participating in the debate...but you are referring to something in the future. I don't get it.

Maybe you are unaware of what this forum is. This is a forum in which we propose certain debate subjects, find one partner who takes the opposite view, sets up the rules of the debate, and maybe any other further clarification. This is a proposal to a formal debate. Once we agree on the terms, a new thread where the actual debate is created by a mod. There is a separate forum for that, and we would be the only ones allowed to comment in the thread, hence the formal debate. So as you can see, this is not the typical comment vs. comment.

 

[elopez]

@ScottA

Any further interest?

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

I accept these terms, and the terms discussed within the pm. 2000 character limit per post, no more than a week between posts, three rounds, Biblical citation and outside sources.

"Free Will Exists vs. Free Will Does Not Exist" [With me taking the latter, arguing for total predestination].

 

[elopez]

I agree as well. Would you like me to clarify my position? Or define anything now?

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

I agree as well. Would you like me to clarify my position? Or define anything now?

Sure, and if you want, I'll clarify mine.

I believe that God has foreknowledge of all things that have come to pass, are currently coming to pass, and will come to pass, and that He has predestined all people either to salvation or damnation, not in regards to any future actions or to seeing the future consequence of their faith, but by His sovereign grace and will alone. He has predestined them in such a way as to make them obey His will by design, so that, by design, they will do exactly as He wishes and thus fulfill His purpose. Free will is an illusion at best and a borderline heresy at worst [for it impinges upon God's ultimate sovereignty].

Need anymore clarification?

 

[elopez]

No further clarification. I am taking the compatibilist position, which is to say free will and determinism are not mutually exclusive. I too believe God has foreknowledge, and predestines those to salvation. I would disagree with a double predestination. Free will is not an illusion. It is a genuine feature of human nature, which I define in relation to moral responsibility. I define free will in two ways, one mentally and the other in terms of agency. Free will then is, a) the ability to understand our reasons for acting and that they have consequences, and b), the ability to act how we desire with no external or internal factors forcing or preventing us from acting.

 

[elopez]

It was also agreed that we could user Biblical sources too

 

[elopez]

@MarkRohfrietsch

I think we are all set and just need approval from mod. I can begin shortly after thread is created.

 

[elopez]

Subject is "Free will exists Vs. Free Will Does Not Exist"

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

With me taking up the latter.

 

[elopez]

I would also like to say that we should be open to more rounds if we both see it necessary.

 

[elopez]

Also we need a start date. I'm good anytime really, so we could start today or tomorrow. What works for you?

 

[elopez]

Are we missing anything @MarkRohfrietsch?

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

Start Monday. Tomorrow's the Sabbath.

 

[elopez]

Sounds good.

 

[elopez]

I believe we are all set. Can you set up the threads Mark?

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

I'm all set.