Free Will Exists Vs Free Will Does Not Exist

[elopez]

Free will is a topic so frequent in these forums, which is obvious once you do a simple search under said term on this website. Yet it hasn't been throroughly discussed, or rather debated, here in this forum. It would be interesting to explore the idea of free will with someone, specifically, who outright denies free will exists. What that means is up to you. I would take the view that free will does exist. I think we should have a detailed understanding of free will as far as any philosophical, scientific, or theological approach. Maybe all three.

Generally the affirmative position would begin which would be I, unless objected to, in which case I would be arguing from a compatibilist position, which is the idea free will is not mutually exclusive from determinism. I am Christian, so I would be arguing from that p.o.v. Obviously the parameters of the debate can be fleshed out. And it may be the case that the debate could turn into "God gave us free will VS God did not" or "Free will is compatible with Christianity/idea of God VS Free will is not compatible as such." The former being a Christian partner and the latter perhaps a non theist partner.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Good topic; bumping...

 

[RC1970]

Martin Luther would be all over this thread, but... he probably would be banned for flaming.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Martin Luther would be all over this thread, but... he probably would be banned for flaming.

It is so true!

 

[elopez]

Good topic; bumping...

I would have thought so as there has been I believe at least two more threads on free will.

Also let it be known I would be open to debating one who does hold to free will, yet perhaps a contrasting, indeterminist view. So we could agree free will exists, yet to what extent, what that means, what it means in regards to God's Sovereignty, etc.

 

[Arcangl86]

I kind of like the idea of debating free will from a Christian perspective. What exactly would the parameters be?

 

[elopez]

Well like I said, I take a compatibilist approach to Christianity when it comes to free will. I believe in determinism and free will are both true.

What is your take on that idea? Do you only believe in free will and not determinism? Both? Or maybe just determinism snd not free will?

 

[Arcangl86]

I suppose you would say both. I think that humans have limited free will unless freed by God. That is, I believe we can choose to do somethings and not others.

 

[elopez]

So you tok believe determinism and free will are compatible? Not sure if there is much room for debate there. In what sense do you believe in determinism? Free will?

 

[Arcangl86]

So you tok believe determinism and free will are compatible? Not sure if there is much room for debate there. In what sense do you believe in determinism? Free will?

I believe by nature we are granted a limited freedom of choice. We are free to make our own choices, but because of our certain nature, we are predisposed to choose only one direction.

 

[elopez]

I believe by nature we are granted a limited freedom of choice. We are free to make our own choices, but because of our certain nature, we are predisposed to choose only one direction.

Yeah I don't think there is much room for debate there as I agree. Do yiu find determinism also in regards to God?

 

[Arcangl86]

Yeah I don't think there is much room for debate there as I agree. Do yiu find determinism also in regards to God?

*shrugs* It was an interesting idea at least. And as for your second, I'm not sure I understand the question. God knows what will happen, but doesn't influence it. I think that is what you are getting at?

 

[elopez]

*shrugs* It was an interesting idea at least. And as for your second, I'm not sure I understand the question. God knows what will happen, but doesn't influence it. I think that is what you are getting at?

Itnis an interesting idea and one frequent here which is why I'm surprised no one is taking this up. Do you find predestination to be true? I'm just trying to see if there is any room but it does not appear so.

 

[Arcangl86]

Itnis an interesting idea and one frequent here which is why I'm surprised no one is taking this up. Do you find predestination to be true? I'm just trying to see if there is any room but it does not appear so.

Do you mean predestination in a sense that everything that happens is preplanned, or in the soterilogical sense? If the first no, the second, well sort of.

 

[elopez]

In the second sense. Would you say we have free will in such an instance too? What do you mean sort of?

Also while mentioning foreknowledge, would you say that is also a deterministic factor? Not in the causal sense, though.

 

[Chriliman]

Free will is a topic so frequent in these forums, which is obvious once you do a simple search under said term on this website. Yet it hasn't been throroughly discussed, or rather debated, here in this forum. It would be interesting to explore the idea of free will with someone, specifically, who outright denies free will exists. What that means is up to you. I would take the view that free will does exist. I think we should have a detailed understanding of free will as far as any philosophical, scientific, or theological approach. Maybe all three.

Generally the affirmative position would begin which would be I, unless objected to, in which case I would be arguing from a compatibilist position, which is the idea free will is not mutually exclusive from determinism. I am Christian, so I would be arguing from that p.o.v. Obviously the parameters of the debate can be fleshed out. And it may be the case that the debate could turn into "God gave us free will VS God did not" or "Free will is compatible with Christianity/idea of God VS Free will is not compatible as such." The former being a Christian partner and the latter perhaps a non theist partner.

This is a great topic. I would say we should look at free will from God's perspective. God's will is locked in, meaning His will is truth, therefore, it can never change over time. Our human will has a beginning and is free to change overtime, but as soon as our will leads us to God's will, it becomes foolish to deviate from God's will. God seeks those who are honest and humble and rewards them for being obedient to His will.

 

[elopez]

This is a great topic.

Are you interested in participating with me?

 

[Chriliman]

Are you interested in participating with me?

Do you mean participate with you in a debate as your support? Or participate as in debate against each other?

 

[elopez]

Or participate as in debate against each other?

This, depending on our views.

 

[Chriliman]

This, depending on our views.

Well my view is that we do have free will, up until we realize God has a perfect will. We then consider our own free will to be foolish if it deviates from God's perfect will.