Does the day of Christ resurrections tell us to change the worship of Sabbath?

[Gary K]

Hi reddogs

Virtually all seventh day observers use the international date line, a human idea.

So as far as you're concerned the Biblical day has no end as the earth just keeps on rotating?

 

[Leaf473]

So as far as you're concerned the Biblical day has no end as the earth just keeps on rotating?

No, but days start and end at different times for people on different parts of the year

Seventh day observers in Manila observe a seventh day prior to the one in Jerusalem, while the people in Los Angeles use one afterwards.

 

[Gary K]

No, but days start and end at different times for people on different parts of the year

Seventh day observers in Manila observe a seventh day prior to the one in Jerusalem, while the people in Los Angeles use one afterwards.

So? That's because of the east to west rotation of the earth.

 

[Leaf473]

So? That's because of the east to west rotation of the earth.

Yes. Where is the first place on Earth that the days start?

 

[Gary K]

Yes. Where is the first place on Earth that the days start?

It starts where ever the sun hits the earth as it rotates.

 

[reddogs]

Hi reddogs

Virtually all seventh day observers use the international date line, a human idea.

So does that nullify the day of worship that God made, no, just asked any true believer.

 

[Leaf473]

It starts where ever the sun hits the earth as it rotates.

Well, the Sun hits the Earth everywhere as it rotates. But the days start earlier in some places than others.

I believe it is day four of the biblical week as I write this. But it's already been day four several hours longer in the UK. And even longer than that in Jerusalem. That's because day four started earlier in those places.

What's the earliest place that day four started?

 

[Leaf473]

So does that nullify the day of worship that God made, no, just asked any true believer.

That's correct, it doesn't nullify anything God made.

But it does nullify the idea that the seventh day is observed today in ways based solely on scripture.

The observation of the Sabbath today incorporates a human idea.

 

[reddogs]

That's correct, it doesn't nullify anything God made.

But it does nullify the idea that the seventh day is observed today in ways based solely on scripture.

The observation of the Sabbath today incorporates a human idea.

I think Christ is clear on this...
Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 

[Leaf473]

I think Christ is clear on this...
Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

I think every earnest Christian is in favor of keeping God's instructions.

I was responding to this part of your OP

...we must be careful we don't change to ideas of men.

The scriptures don't say how to determine where the days change on a spherical Earth. For secular purposes, people just use the international date line. It's an idea of men, but that's fine

Virtually all seventh day observers adopt those same ideas of men about where the days change.

Sometimes people want to portray this as something that only affects people who live in the Pacific, near the dateline. But it actually affects everyone who lives very far from the latitude of the Holy Land, if you think about it

 

[reddogs]

I think every earnest Christian is in favor of keeping God's instructions.

I was responding to this part of your OP

The scriptures don't say how to determine where the days change on a spherical Earth. For secular purposes, people just use the international date line. It's an idea of men, but that's fine

Virtually all seventh day observers adopt those same ideas of men about where the days change.

Sometimes people want to portray this as something that only affects people who live in the Pacific, near the dateline. But it actually affects everyone who lives very far from the latitude of the Holy Land, if you think about it

Then why do they strive to negate Gods Commandments, thats not being in favor at all.

 

[Leaf473]

Then why do they strive to negate Gods Commandments, thats not being in favor at all.

Well, I can't speak for others, but I certainly don't strive to negate any of God's Commandments.

I do seek to understand them, and follow them in the way that God tells us to today.

It seems to me that in these discussions it comes down to which Commandments are still kept "to the letter" today.

For starters, here's the final words of The Book of Leviticus

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 27:34 - New American Standard Bible

These are the commandments which the LORD commanded Moses for the sons of Israel on Mount Sinai.

www.biblegateway.com

That sounds to me like the entire book is God's Commandments. Yet few people say that we should try to keep them all.

Then the next step is, "which ones"? Seventh day observers are happy to talk about general categories, in my experience. But that doesn't actually work when we get down to specifics, again in my experience.

If you'd like to talk about specifics, the details, I invite you to start reading at the beginning of Leviticus and then post the first instruction you come to that you believe we are to follow "to the letter" today.

You could do it here or in whatever thread you like.

And peace be with you, my friend

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

..to Sunday, or the first day of the week?

Some people claim the Sabbath was changed by the resurrection or say 'I keep Sunday in honor of the Resurrection', or they are told that the Apostles began keeping Sunday as the day of worship after the resurrection, but did they? Did the resurrection somehow make the Sabbath to cease or cause a change in the day of worship?

Worship is the reason for the Sabbath from Creation and it is the only day God ever gave us to worship Him on, so we must be careful we don't change to ideas of men. Christ warned that this would happen...

Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mark 7:7
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

So what should we do, follow what man says and 'traditions' that man comes up with? God gives us is the truth and we find it in His Word..
John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

If we turn from Gods truth what happens...

2 Thessalonians 2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

It is not safe to refuse obedience to the clear and obvious truths of God’s Word.

Proverbs 28:9
He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

So what does it tell us clearly in the Word of God when men come up with changes to what God has given us, or bring in tradition which go against Gods Law.

Acts 5:29
Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

So does the resurrection change the day of the Sabbath, what do we have from Gods Word. Well the problem is that God never told anyone to keep Sunday in honor of the resurrection of Christ, or for any other reason. But He decidedly and repeatedly told us to keep holy the seventh day of the week. In Gethsemane on Thursday night and on the cross on Friday morning and afternoon, our salvation hung in the balance. By sundown Friday it was all settled. The price had been paid. The salvation of those who would accept it was assured. Then came the Sabbath day of rest, and Jesus our Lord rested in the tomb.

On Sunday morning, He rose and another work week began. Christ began working again. We see no changes made and if there was something that we should focus on, the resurrection of Christ is in no way as important as is Calvary. Those who wish to abandon a clear command of God to keep the seventh day for another day, might as well say they keep Friday holy in honor of Calvary. But we keep a day holy because God says to, not because man says to do it or we decide to.

Some say that they keep Sunday because it is the "great memorial of our redemption." This is not true. The sign or symbol or memorial of our redemption is the Bible Sabbath. Our keeping of it is the sign by which all men shall know that we belong to God our Creator and that it is He, and not we ourselves, who is saving us from sin and will ultimately redeem us from this evil world. The seventh-day Sabbath is the seal of the law and the sign that He is our Creator.

Exodus 31:16-17
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

And through whom we are sanctified so we may be saved by the Redeemer and stand perfect before God.

Ezekiel 20:12
Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them.

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

So do we break the Law the Creator wrote with His own finger, and continue in sin..
Romans 6:1
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

The answer is clear, 'God forbid.'

The ascension of Christ not only changed the day of the Sabbath, but changed the whole nature of it. It ceased from being a Sabbath observed on a particular day, and Christ Himself became our Sabbath rest. So, instead of observing a particular day of rest and worship, we rest in Christ by faith. Our Sabbath now dwells in our hearts by faith. "By grace we are saved through faith, not of ourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works lest any should boast." We rest in Christ from having to be saved through works. Christ has become all in all, leaving behind the Mosaic Law, the Ten Commandments and the Sabbath as outward observances. God's moral law is now written on our hearts and instead of trying to follow it through the flesh, we walk in the Spirit, in the light as Jesus is in the light.

Therefore it doesn't matter what day we decide to put aside for worship, because we now worship the Lord in Spirit and in truth. Requiring people to worship either on Saturday or Sunday as the Sabbath is trying to worship God in the flesh, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. The Scripture says that the flesh profits nothing, so therefore there is no spiritual profit in worshiping either on Saturday or Sunday. What does profit however, is that we worship God from our hearts on any day of the week and at any time of the day. "We are of the circumcision who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Jesus Christ, and have no confidence in the flesh."

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Then why do they strive to negate Gods Commandments, thats not being in favor at all.

This is the will of God that we believe on Him whom He has sent. Jesus Christ is our all in all, and faith in Him and the leading of the Holy Spirit replaces all other observances. When we are led by the Holy Spirit we are observing all of the commandments of Christ. Those who are led of the Spirit can be called the children of God.'

 

[Bob S]

Leaf has an excellent point. The weekly old covenant Sabbath begins at the International Date Line. The Sabbath was given to the Israelites at Sinai. If one feels the need to observe the old covenant Sabbath it should Begin where it was given and then rotate, as the sun sets, around the Globe not at the IDL.

 

[Bob S]

This is the will of God that we believe on Him whom He has sent. Jesus Christ is our all in all, and faith in Him and the leading of the Holy Spirit replaces all other observances. When we are led by the Holy Spirit we are observing all of the commandments of Christ. Those who are led of the Spirit can be called the children of God.'

Absolutely, 2Cor3: 6-11 negates every argument the Sabbath group tries to put on those of us who do not believe we have to observe days given only to one nation, Israel and ended at Calvary where the new and better covenant began.

 

[HIM]

This is the will of God that we believe on Him whom He has sent. Jesus Christ is our all in all, and faith in Him and the leading of the Holy Spirit replaces all other observances. When we are led by the Holy Spirit we are observing all of the commandments of Christ. Those who are led of the Spirit can be called the children of God.'

Absolutely, 2Cor3: 6-11 negates every argument the Sabbath group tries to put on those of us who do not believe we have to observe days given only to one nation, Israel and ended at Calvary where the new and better covenant began.

Only a misunderstanding of 2 Cor 3. Because in it is a testimony of how the Spirit puts forth the New Covenant, God’s law, His word in our hearts. That ministry, which is of the Spirit from within; is so much more glorious than that trying to obey through the letter or tables of stone.

 

[Bob S]

Only a misunderstanding of 2 Cor 3. Because in it is a testimony of how the Spirit puts forth the New Covenant, God’s law, His word in our hearts. That ministry, which is of the Spirit from within; is so much more glorious than that trying to obey through the letter or tables of stone.

I truly believe messianic and SDA readers of 2Cor 3:6-11 are in denial of what those verses are telling us. You cannot deny that those verses are telling us that the 10 commandments WERE temporary. The KJV even tells us that the 10 have been done away, verse 11. 11 For if that which IS done away WAS glorious, much more that which remaineth IS glorious. Notice the word "was", telling us the 10 are past tense. Verse 7 tells us that the subject is "the ministry of death" and then explains that the ministry of death is the 10 written on stone WAS glorious.

Couple those verses with Eph 2: 9-15 telling us: 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, there is absolutely no doubt Paul is telling us we are not under the laws of the Sinai covenant.

It is with heavy heart when I read Messianic and SDA responses concerning what Paul so plainly wrote.

 

[HIM]

The KJV even tells us that the 10 have been done away, verse 11. 11 For if that which IS done away WAS glorious, much more that which remaineth IS glorious. Notice the word "was", telling us the 10 are past tense. Verse 7 tells us that the subject is "the ministry of death" and then explains that the ministry of death is the 10 written on stone WAS glorious.

Present tense not past. If you must have done away as the KJV translates, then it is being done away with not done.

All 4 instances of this word in this chapter are in the present tense in the Greek manuscripts. If this one fact can't be accepted, then there is no reason to get into context.

 

[Bob S]

Present tense not past. If you must have done away as the KJV translates, then it is being done away with not done.

Here are but a few translations that refute your theory of what the verse is telling us. Since none of the many translations agree with you I will have to believe that the 10 commandments are not our guide today and have not been since the new covenant was established at Calvary.

1. ASV
   For if that which passeth away was with glory, much more that which remaineth is in glory.
   AMP
   For if that [Law] which fades away came with glory, how much more must that [gospel] which remains and is permanent abide in glory and splendor!
   AMPC
   For if that which was but passing and fading away came with splendor, how much more must that which remains and is permanent abide in glory and splendor!
   CEV
   The Law was given with a glory that faded away. But the glory of the new agreement is much greater, because it will never fade away.
   NLT
   So if the old way, which has been replaced, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new, which remains forever!
   NMB
   So then, if that which is destroyed was glorious, much more will that which remains be glorious.
   WEB
   For if that which passes away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.

All 4 instances of this word in this chapter are in the present tense in the Greek manuscripts. If this one fact can't be accepted, then there is no reason to get into context.

(used with he, she, it, and with singular nouns) a form of the present tense (indicative mood) of be

Sure "is" is present tense. "Is done away" means no longer with us now. I can't believe you are unable to see that those verses are telling us that Israelites are no longer under the rules of the 10 commandments or as it indicates the Law. Jesus command for us to love others as He loves us far surpasses any of the commands in the 10 that told the Israelites how to treat others. The stone tablets were given only to one nation, the remainder of the World's population were under the Noahide commands according to our Jewish friends. There were seven laws given to Noah and his posterity after the flood. See: https://www.chabad.org/library/arti...ish/The-7-Noahide-Laws-Universal-Morality.htm