Difference in ministry titles?

[ByTheSpirit]

Ok so this is something I can't really figure out, maybe a different question for around here, I hope I'm ok asking it. In the NT we see at least 8 different ministry titles that I can identify easily.

1. Apostles
2. Prophets
3. Evangelists
4. Teachers
5. Pastors (some combine this and #4)
6. Elders
7. Overseers
8. Deacons

Now my question is more about those last three, but also about them all.

What is the difference between an elder and overseer? Not the qualifications, although they do appear rather similar, but like responsibilities? Deacon is fairly easy, as it's more of a servant leader, of course in Acts 6 we have the first 7. But elder and overseer seem to be about the same, but Paul labels them differently. Did he do that just to throw people off?

I found this while researching this topic if anyone is interested

Who are the elders, overseers and pastors?

 

[chevyontheriver]

Ok so this is something I can't really figure out, maybe a different question for around here, I hope I'm ok asking it. In the NT we see at least 8 different ministry titles that I can identify easily.

1. Apostles
2. Prophets
3. Evangelists
4. Teachers
5. Pastors (some combine this and #4)
6. Elders
7. Overseers
8. Deacons

Now my question is more about those last three, but also about them all.

What is the difference between an elder and overseer? Not the qualifications, although they do appear rather similar, but like responsibilities? Deacon is fairly easy, as it's more of a servant leader, of course in Acts 6 we have the first 7. But elder and overseer seem to be about the same, but Paul labels them differently. Did he do that just to throw people off?

I found this while researching this topic if anyone is interested

Who are the elders, overseers and pastors?

I would look historically, over the course of centuries. And that because of the highly conservative nature of Christian leadership.

All bishops (overseers/episcopoi) are elders. Not all elders are bishops. All elders (priests/presbuteroi) have pastoral responsibilities, but their duties may vary within their groups. The Orthodox and Catholic models are an organic outgrowth of the Biblical witness.

It is more complex though, in that the bishops do have and always had a communal role. They don't all act independent of each other. This is much like Catholic practice now in two ways. First is bishops acting in council, with a long history. Second is a metropolitan bishop with assistant bishops, making for a communal rule.

 

[Tolworth John]

Now my question is more about those last three, but also about them all.

What do you have in the church you belong to? Wasn't it explained when you joined, both as to how it works and how it relates to the bible?

That is your starting point, talking to your minister.

How it works out depends on the type of church, to keep it simple:-
Apostles were apointed by Jesus and are no more.
prophets are either those appointed to fore tell things or those who forth tell the bible.
evangelists are thos good at getting the gospel to people.
paster are leaders of a church responcible for preaching etc and the spiritual well being of there church.

elders are a group who assit the pastor, he is the head elder.
deacons those responcible for the fabric of the church.

 

[Paidiske]

What is the difference between an elder and overseer? Not the qualifications, although they do appear rather similar, but like responsibilities?...But elder and overseer seem to be about the same, but Paul labels them differently. Did he do that just to throw people off?

From what we can tell - both from the NT and other documents from about the same time which are not in the NT - in the very early church there was not much difference. Most congregations had a group of elder-overseers which provided leadership. It was later that a more well-established distinction (now often preserved as bishops and priests) came in.

I understand myself, as a priest, as being what the NT would call an elder. The word "priest" itself is a contraction of the Greek presbyteros, elder.

 

[GodLovesCats]

What do you have in the church you belong to? Wasn't it explained when you joined, both as to how it works and how it relates to the Bible?

That is your starting point, talking to your minister.

This is another one that throws me off, in addition to bishop, elder, and deacon. Why do some churches in America use the word minister, while others call the same job pastor? And why do only Catholics call them priests, even though they are all called priests in the Bible? You never hear some people say pastor where the church calls the preacher a minister and vice versa.

 

[Paidiske]

This is another one that throws me off, in addition to bishop, elder, and deacon. Why do some churches in America use the word minister, while others call the same job pastor? And why do only Catholics call them priests, even though they are all called priests in the Bible? You never hear some people say pastor where the church calls the preacher a minister and vice versa.

"Minister" is an umbrella term which could describe people in a range of roles, whether lay or ordained.

It's not only Catholics who use the term "priest," though. Orthodox and Anglicans do, too. But as I explained above, that's not the same as OT priesthood, but as NT eldership.

 

[The Liturgist]

"Minister" is an umbrella term which could describe people in a range of roles, whether lay or ordained.

It's not only Catholics who use the term "priest," though. Orthodox and Anglicans do, too. But as I explained above, that's not the same as OT priesthood, but as NT eldership.

I believe the use of the term Minister to refer to the office historically called Presbyter likely originated in Presbyterian and Congregational churches, because of confusion between Teaching Elders, who are ordained ministers, and Ruling Elders, who are more akin to Churchwardens. However, it became quite ubiquitous, to the point that in my youth, before I had any contact with Anglicanism, it was the custom in my family, which was mostly Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian and Congregational, with a few Baptists, to refer to all clergy as Ministers.

At an early age, I was introduced to Mr. Roger’s Neighborhood, which you probably have heard of, and my family and I delighted in the fact that he was a Presbyterian minister; likewise, in my older childhood I was introduced to the classic late 50s/early 60s American family television program Leave It To Beaver, which was a favorite of ours, and the fact that the actor Hugh Beaumont was a Methodist minister added a level of further credibility.

It was later that a more well-established distinction (now often preserved as bishops and priests) came in.

We can say with some confidence this happened towards the end of the First Century*, because of the Epistles of St. Ignatius, traditionally dated to 108 AD, which very clearly reflect a well-entrenched episcopal polity.

*Of course, if one accepts a late date for these epistles, which requires dismissing Eusebius of Caesarea as a valid source of information, and I have to confess, I am not thrilled by the scholarship supporting this, one scholar, Timothy David Barnes, has dated his martyrdom to 140 AD; if one believes this is the case then one simply adds a few decades on to the estimate. As for me, as you might expect, I will stick to the date provided by Eusebius, who was the first real historian of the post-apostolic church; that Eusebius was an obsequious Arian sympathizer does not invalidate the reliability of his work, with the possible exception of any statements favorable to Emperor Constantine.

 

[Daniel9v9]

This is something I've been interested in myself, and I think perhaps the best starting point is considering this question:

Does the New Testament have any kind of pastoral office? That is, does it make a distinction between those who are called to publicly teach God's Word and those who are not? Yes. cf. James 3:1

Now, what are those offices? Paul explains the qualifications for two offices in his epistle to Timothy:
- A teaching office. cf. 1 Timothy 3:1-7
- A helper office. cf. 1 Timothy 3:8-13

Teaching office
In the New Testament (considering the original and the English translations of it), we find different words applied to people in the teaching office, and they are used interchangeably. Teacher, Pastor, Priest, Overseer, Presbyter, Elder, Bishop, Servant — It's all the same pastoral office in the New Testament. These are the ones who are to publicly preach God's Word.

Helper office
We can find the institution of the office of Deacon in Acts 6, and there we also find what the function of this office is, which is to serve and help, that is, it's an office of charity. In the same text, we also see a contrast being made between this office and the pastoral office, in that the latter is an office of prayer and to the ministry of the Word.

Apostle
Now, the pastoral office flows out of the apostolic office. The apostles were called by Jesus directly (though a bit differently for Matthias and for Paul). They in turn ordained teachers to carry on the message they received from the Lord.

Sometimes the word "apostle" is used in a generic sense to mean something like a first-generation evangelist. However the apostolic office proper seized with the 12 and Paul. cf. Ephesians 2:20

A distinction between Bishop and Pastor/Priest?
Let me pause here to explain one thing in brief: There was a time when apostles and pastors existed at the same time. Paul and Timothy is a great example of this. And though Timothy was commissioned by Paul to oversee and ordain others, the New Testament itself knows nothing of a distinction between Pastor and Bishop. Again, in the New Testament, we find that Pastor and Bishop is the same thing. However, a little later in church history, the office of Bishop become something apart from the office of Pastor. This, however, is a later development. This is not only seen in the Bible itself, but is also very clear in the ancient Christian text the Didache, which, in accordance with Scripture, only knows two offices by divine right: a teacher office and a helper office. And also, Jerome (Letter 146 — To Evangelus) explicitly says that: "The apostle clearly teaches that Presbyters are the same as Bishops."

Now, why do some church bodies believe that the office of Bishop is something apart from and above the office of Pastor? Because they hold to the doctrine of Holy Tradition. Other bodies, such as the one I belong to, retain the office of Bishop out of our freedom in Christ. It's essentially the same as "Senior Pastor". The difference being, some claim that the office of Bishop is something apart from the pastoral office by divine right, whereas others don't.

Prophets and Evangelist
Prophets are, in short, directly called by God, whereas Pastors and Deacons are called indirectly, that is, through the Church.

Evangelists are essentially travelling preachers. It's sometimes synonymous with Pastor, and other times not, in that a Pastor is called to serve a local congregation. Timothy could be called both. He followed Paul around and he also served as the first Bishop of Ephesus.

Which of the offices exist today and who can occupy them?
Here you'll find a whole lot of different ideas depending on which church body you ask. Without going into great detail and controversy, I think it's best to think in terms of the two offices, because this is what is handed to us most explicitly.

Hope this helps! God bless!