Cholesterol and fraud - Anthony Chaffee, MD

[Laodicean60]

If a person has diabetes, they are certainly right to watch what they eat, and avoid excess empty calories, including sugary foods. However, sugar in itself doesn't cause diabetes, and isn't toxic per se. A diseased metabolic condition doesn't define normal human physiology.

This is my last post.

Can Eating Too Much Sugar Cause Diabetes?

The simple answer is no. But there’s more to know before giving into those cravings for cookies, candy and sweetened drinks.

www.uhhospitals.org

 

[timewerx]

...but the ratios of each that would keep them in optimal health are very different. (Chimps only get about 5% of their caloric intake from animal foods, for Wolves, that number is 70-80% depending on where they live)

Genetically speaking (and in terms of digestive tract), we're much closer to the former

Makes sense. Our teeth design much closer to herbivores is strong evidence that we are best suited to mostly plant-based diet.

If you have 3 people who are 350lbs, low-energy, knee pain, etc... who've been eating nothing but fast food, pizza, and soda for 20 years.

And one goes on a whole foods vegan diet
One goes on a paleo diet
And the other goes on a carnivore diet

Odds are, after 6-12 months, all will have lost a significant amount of weight and "feel better overall"

There you go!

 

[timewerx]

I don't want to get into it again. High carbs create high insulin and over time will break the body and cause all sorts of metabolic problems from insulin resistance. Hyperglycemia is also known as glucose toxicity. It is a fuel but if you take in more than you burn it spills onto the ground as fat.

I avoided you guys arguments but you made it sound like you can eat as much sugar as you want. That will eventually harm someone and that's why I chimed in. Once I broke my machine by taking too much sugar "beer" and American diet I had to watch my glycemic load.

Although my diet composition is high carbs due to rice, the rice I eat has been refrigerated overnight beforehand to convert some into high resistant starch. Makes it slower to digest to avoid blood sugar spikes.

In exercising however, elevated insulin levels in the right amounts - not too high, not hyperglycemic will aid in muscle strengthening as adaptation to exercise.

Eating right after a workout session definitely does it or within 45 minutes after a workout.

 

[Laodicean60]

Although my diet composition is high carbs due to rice, the rice I eat has been refrigerated overnight beforehand to convert some into high resistant starch. Makes it slower to digest to avoid blood sugar spikes.

In exercising however, elevated insulin levels in the right amounts - not too high, not hyperglycemic will aid in muscle strengthening as adaptation to exercise.

Eating right after a workout session definitely does it or within 45 minutes after a workout.

I do follow a lifestyle like yours. Yes, when insulin rises you have MTOR that signals the body to build and of course, in a fasted state it repairs. I incorporate carbs in my diet because I exercise and I'm burning the fuel, also to maintain weight.

 

[timewerx]

I do follow a lifestyle like yours. Yes, when insulin rises you have MTOR that signals the body to build and of course, in a fasted state it repairs. I incorporate carbs in my diet because I exercise and I'm burning the fuel, also to maintain weight.

You probably know this already when exercising in fasted state which I think you also do, the blood sugar would drop. In this case, more growth hormone (GH) is secreted by the body. It works like insulin in managing blood sugar levels but in reverse - to raise blood sugar to prevent blood sugar from dropping too low.

Elevated levels of GH also has protective properties against muscle catabolism (muscle loss) during exercise. Ketone bodies which are elevated when exercising in fasted state can also protect against muscle catabolism during exercise.

This highlights the importance of exercising while in fasted state to preventing muscle loss due to exercise that may help hasten muscular adaptations to exercise.

 

[trophy33]

There could be some sampling bias when you have a population where so few actually make it into that "old age" category. As the rare outliers who do make it to 65, and survive all of the other hazards (sans modern medicine) we can assume are of "hearty stock" so to speak.

The entire region has issues with not many people making it to over 65.

Kenya - age structure 2022 | Statista

This statistic shows the age structure in Kenya from 2012 to 2022.

www.statista.com

View attachment 341108

Compared to the US
View attachment 341107

In the context of "does this diet cause diabetes, cancer, CVDs, anxiety, depression, OCD...", we know that quite young Americans, even children, get that. The longer lifespan in the USA is because of relative safety, medicine, clean water, antibiotics and various kind of treatments for diabetes, CVD, cancer. People live relatively longer, but in the constant state of unhealthiness and treatment.

Its still relatively low to some other countries (Andorra, Hong-Kong, Switzerland, Scandinavia, Japan...), and those other countries are still relatively low to natural human potential based on the length of telomeres (cca 120 years). We can compare one to another and see some winners (apple or rice is obviously better than sweets because of the food matrix, fiber), but those winners are still short of our potential.

 

[trophy33]

Could be because Hispanics are also the most sedentary ethnic group in USA.

I did not mean USA, but the South/Central America. They have huge problems with metabolic diseases in their own countries, on a high carb diet.

Therefore, I do not think they are genetically equipped to deal with it better, in any sense.

 

[trophy33]

However, sugar in itself doesn't cause diabetes

The literal definition of diabetes is elevated blood sugar. Which is (for the type 2) basically impossible without eating sugar.

and isn't toxic per se.

It is toxic, because it (for example) binds to proteins. It damages mitochondria. It kills cells. Elevated blood sugar leads to serious damage to various parts of the body, including the heart, blood vessels, eyes, kidneys, and nerves. What else is it if not toxic?

The ability of body to deal with toxic substances in low levels for some time (neither one drink of alcohol nor one cola will kill us) does not mean its toxicity is not building up in time till it causes a serious illness or irreversible damage to organs.

You mentioned the importance of fiber on a high carb diet. Thats because it slows the absorption of sugars, so the damage to organs is not so quick. This also makes sense only if sugar is toxic. Why else would you want to slow its digestion down/limit it by fiber?

 

[FireDragon76]

The literal definition of diabetes is elevated blood sugar.

Blood sugar won't normally be elevated to dangerous levels, if ones hormones are functioning normally.

Also, a diet that restricts sugar isn't necessarily healthy, just because it restricts sugar. If a person is eating alot of "keto" processed foods, they may have high blood sugar and still gain weight, because weight gain is a matter of excess calories relative to ones total energy expenditure. On the other hand, in almost all cases, losing weight (specifically fat) in the early stages of diabetes will reverse the condition.

You mentioned the importance of fiber on a high carb diet. Thats because it slows the absorption of sugars, so the damage to organs is not so quick. This also makes sense only if sugar is toxic. Why else would you want to slow its digestion down/limit it by fiber?

Fiber doesn't just slow the absorbtion of sugar (it does, but there are substances that do so more dramatically, such as anthocyanins), it also has other effects, such as being associated with higher levels of GLP-1, a satiety hormone.

 

[trophy33]

Blood sugar won't normally be elevated to dangerous levels, if ones hormones are functioning normally.

Or when somebody does not eat them. In any case, its the sugar that causes the problem. The "hormones functioning normally" just means that our body is able to neutralize the toxicity of sugar to some degree (for example transforming it to fat), not that sugar is not the cause. Too much sugar for too long and body simply exhausts its ability to neutralize the toxicity and sugar remains in blood and we call it diabetes.

Also, a diet that restricts sugar isn't necessarily healthy, just because it restricts sugar.

Agreed, I do not claim that low sugar is the only thing. For example seed oils are terrible, although they have no sugar. Or smoking, frying...

Fiber doesn't just slow the absorbtion of sugar (it does, but there are substances that do so more dramatically, such as anthocyanins), it also has other effects, such as being associated with higher levels of GLP-1, a satiety hormone.

If you want to experience a real satiety that will last possibly for the whole day, eat a fatty steak for breakfast, you can add cheese or eggs. No fiber needed.

However, the point was the toxicity of sugar - slowing its absorption is a good thing, exactly because sugar is toxic. An apple is better than cola not because the sugar is different (its the same in both), but because fiber in the apple inhibits its digestion - acts as an anti-toxin.

 

[FireDragon76]

Or when somebody does not eat them. In any case, its the sugar that causes the problem. The "hormones functioning normally" just means that our body is able to neutralize the toxicity of sugar to some degree (for example transforming it to fat),

Glucose is a fuel source that doesn't just magically become fat. It requires a significant caloric excess for it to become body fat.

not that sugar is not the cause. Too much sugar for too long and body simply exhausts its ability to neutralize the toxicity and sugar remains in blood and we call it diabetes.

There's less and less credible evidence for the carbohydrate-insulin model of obesity or diabetes. The pancreas doesn't just "burn out" in the presence of a high carbohydrate diet. There are almost no people with low body fat who become type II diabetic, regardless of their macronutrient consumption.

If you want to experience a real satiety that will last possibly for the whole day, eat a fatty steak for breakfast, you can add cheese or eggs. No fiber needed.

I have tried eating like that years ago, when I was far less clued into actual science. It resulted in gout and inflammation, and I didn't really lose a significant amount of body fat.

A high fiber diet is far healthier in general.

 

[timewerx]

Glucose is a fuel source that doesn't just magically become fat. It requires a significant caloric excess for it to become body fat.

There's less and less credible evidence for the carbohydrate-insulin model of obesity or diabetes. The pancreas doesn't just "burn out" in the presence of a high carbohydrate diet. There are almost no people with low body fat who become type II diabetic, regardless of their macronutrient consumption.

I have tried eating like that years ago, when I was far less clued into actual science. It resulted in gout and inflammation, and I didn't really lose a significant amount of body fat.

A high fiber diet is far healthier in general.

I prefer having lots of fiber in my diet. I can digest fiber quite well.

But limit my intake of sugar like refined sugar and from fruits. Although I have high carb diet, it's mostly refrigerated rice (reheated before eating). It's slow digesting due to resistant starch so it won't drive your glucose or insulin levels high.

If I take a break from this diet, and started eating more sweets like fruits from the supermarket, I don't feel so good.

Non-sweet vegetables doesn't give me any problems even if containing lots of carbs, they're still slow to digest.

 

[trophy33]

Glucose is a fuel source

Glucose as a fuel source is required only in brain. The rest of cells can utilize glucose for fuel, too, but do not need it. The amount needed for brain is produced by our own body (thats why we do not die during fasts or on a zero carb diet). Any glucose amount that goes on the top of that must be taken care of by our body defense mechanism or it will harm us.

that doesn't just magically become fat.

Sure, its not magical, its a well understood mechanism of our biochemistry.

It requires a significant caloric excess for it to become body fat.

Its not about calories. Heat energy of a food has virtually nothing to do with that. Sugar becomes fat when cells cannot absorb any more of it for energy, because staying in blood as it is is toxic for the body. Thats why body rather stores it as fat, to protect itself. Fructose/alcohol are the most dangerous, because they cause fat specifically around organs (liver).

There's less and less credible evidence for the carbohydrate-insulin model of obesity or diabetes. The pancreas doesn't just "burn out" in the presence of a high carbohydrate diet. There are almost no people with low body fat who become type II diabetic, regardless of their macronutrient consumption.

If you eat more carbohydrates that body needs (which is any amount of carbohydrates), body has to deal with it - and quickly (because its destroying blood cells and arterial walls). Pancreas does not " just burn out", instead cells simply cannot utilize glucose anymore and insuline becomes ineffective as a signalling to the cells to absorb the blood glucose.

I have tried eating like that years ago, when I was far less clued into actual science. It resulted in gout and inflammation, and I didn't really lose a significant amount of body fat.

There is nothing in the "actual science" supporting veganism over meat, dairy or eggs. Why you personally did not lose a significant amount of body fat cannot be determined from such short information in one sentence, so its hard to say. Malnutrition, toxicity or even anorexia of veganism is hardly a good solution, though.

A high fiber diet is far healthier in general.

Not "in general", only relatively to sugars without fiber. Because it slows down or even inhibits sugar from being released to the blood, where it acts as a toxin.

 

[FireDragon76]

I prefer having lots of fiber in my diet. I can digest fiber quite well.

But limit my intake of sugar like refined sugar and from fruits. Although I have high carb diet, it's mostly refrigerated rice (reheated before eating). It's slow digesting due to resistant starch so it won't drive your glucose or insulin levels high.

In general, fruit, especially whole fruit, doesn't cause problematic high blood sugar. If you have diabetes, avoiding fruit juice might be necessary (because it's higher in calories and sugar per serving), but in general fruits are healthy.

Berries especially are beneficial because they can lower blood sugar and inflammation. However, even foods like oranges have alot of antioxidants, and are still relatively low in terms of glycemic load.

 

[timewerx]

In general, fruit, especially whole fruit, doesn't cause problematic high blood sugar. If you have diabetes, avoiding fruit juice might be necessary (because it's higher in calories and sugar per serving), but in general fruits are healthy.

Berries especially are beneficial because they can lower blood sugar and inflammation. However, even foods like oranges have alot of antioxidants, and are still relatively low in terms of glycemic load.

Yup, I only eat whole fruits. I never juice the fruits. Fruits give me blood sugar spikes. It's been a problem of mine for many years and got worse as I got older. Those small-size "low sugar" bananas are ok for me though.

Grapes are the worst for me, followed by apple, orange, mango the ones that gets easily juiced when you chew them.

I get tons of antioxidants from natural body secretions through exercise. It makes my skin quite resistant to UV radiation even without using sunscreen and I get lots of exposure to intense tropical sunlight each week. As much as 3 hours straight on Saturdays up to noontime hours and ~30 minutes continuously each day.

No wrinkling of skin nor getting significantly darker and no sunburns at all and I never use sunscreen. My hair gets significantly "bleached" by the sun though. Normally, my hair color is black but because of sun bleaching, it becomes brown in color.

 

[FireDragon76]

Yup, I only eat whole fruits. I never juice the fruits. Fruits give me blood sugar spikes. It's been a problem of mine for many years and got worse as I got older. Those small-size "low sugar" bananas are ok for me though.

Grapes are the worst for me, followed by apple, orange, mango the ones that gets easily juiced when you chew them.

I get tons of antioxidants from natural body secretions through exercise. It makes my skin quite resistant to UV radiation even without using sunscreen and I get lots of exposure to intense tropical sunlight each week. As much as 3 hours straight on Saturdays up to noontime hours and ~30 minutes continuously each day.

No wrinkling of skin nor getting significantly darker and no sunburns at all and I never use sunscreen. My hair gets significantly "bleached" by the sun though. Normally, my hair color is black but because of sun bleaching, it becomes brown in color.

Blood sugar spikes in themselves aren't harmful, it depends on the total volume of the elevation in blood sugar, in addition to the magnitude of the spike itself. In general, fruit elevates blood sugar far less severely than foods like refined carbohydrates (bread, pastries) and junk food.

In general, Americans could stand to eat alot more whole fruit. My mom is severely diabetic and she ate very little whole, unprocessed fruit, but it didn't stop her from developing diabetes.

Here in Florida we have green bananas and plantains. They taste more like potatoes, and that's how they are often used. They have very little sugar and alot of fiber.

 

[timewerx]

Blood sugar spikes in themselves aren't harmful, it depends on the total volume of the elevation in blood sugar, in addition to the magnitude of the spike itself. In general, fruit elevates blood sugar far less severely than foods like refined carbohydrates (bread, pastries) and junk food.

In general, Americans could stand to eat alot more whole fruit. My mom is severely diabetic and she ate very little whole, unprocessed fruit, but it didn't stop her from developing diabetes.

Here in Florida we have green bananas and plantains. They taste more like potatoes, and that's how they are often used. They have very little sugar and alot of fiber.

The crash after the spike gives me headaches so I don't like it at all. I never adapted to it since youth.

 

[trophy33]

The crash after the spike gives me headaches so I don't like it at all. I never adapted to it since youth.

Sugar spikes also give people brain fog, tiredness (so they sleep during the day after meals), worse memory, worse concentration for example in work, it causes sugar cravings after it leaves the blood (and therefore snacking) and, of course, sugar damages teeth. Also, fructose causes similar problems in the liver like alcohol. In blood, sugars bind to proteins and damage red blood cells or stem cells. Etc.

And, people forget, sugar is addictive. So consuming a bit of sugar leads to consuming more sugar. Without much of exaggeration, in most people, fruit, bread or potatoes will lead to sweets and colas, in time.

It also supports most kinds of cancers (cancer cells lose the ability to utilize fats as energy, so they need dietary sugars to divide), makes intermittent fasting harder, it influences mood and may cause anxieties....

Really, from the nutritional standpoint, its hard to defend why to put any sugar into mouth, at all.

 

[FireDragon76]

The crash after the spike gives me headaches so I don't like it at all. I never adapted to it since youth.

I don't get crashes after eating foods like apples or oranges. Sure, I eventually get hungry again, but that isn't a crash.

 

[timewerx]

I don't get crashes after eating foods like apples or oranges. Sure, I eventually get hungry again, but that isn't a crash.

My symptoms of "crash" are mild and often unnoticeable except for the headache presumably when blood sugar drops.

I'm not taking any medications.