Charles Darwin

Ancient of Days

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I also challenge my brothers and sisters in Christ to look at other verses as literal and not fall back to complacency in the safety of symbolicism.


29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Taken literally, this verse tells us just how SERIOUS God is about sin. Looking at it this way strengthens my "fear of the lord"!
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Disbelief crept over me at a very slow rate, but was at last complete. The rate was so slow that I felt no distress, and have never since doubted even for a single second that my conclusion was correct. I can indeed hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true; for if so the plain language of the text seems to show that the men who do not believe, and this would include my Father, Brother and almost all my best friends, will be everlastingly punished.

And this is a damnable doctrine. (Charles Darwin's Autobiography)

and this is where misinterpertation of the word of GOD leads. No such thing as everlasting punishment. Bible teaches annihilation for the wicked, not burn for eternity as Darwin believed
 
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Champollion

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They haven't singled him out, in fact I quoted quoting Lamarck. I didn't say he was evil I said he was an atheist and he categorically rejected miracles. There are a long line of contributors to Darwinism including Oliver Wendel Holmes, Herbert Spencer, Asa Grey and others. I know why creationists are opposed to Darwinism, it's because the Christian faith is predicated on miracles a fundamental insight even Charles Darwin understood.

I know that you did not refer to Darwin as evil. Another poster referred to Darwinism as "fruits of the devil." I don't know what people mean by Darwinism. It doesn't appear to have anything to do with Darwin, biology, or natural selection.

In sixty years of off-and-on contact with Fundamentalist Christians, they have complained to me about Darwin. Except for you, no one has mentioned Lamarck, Holmes, Spenser, or Grey.
 
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Champollion

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Darwinism Must Die So That Evolution May Live --- By CARL SAFINA

"You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat-catching," Robert Darwin told his son, "and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family." Yet the feckless boy is everywhere. Charles Darwin gets so much credit, we can’t distinguish evolution from him. Equating evolution with Charles Darwin ignores 150 years of discoveries, including most of what scientists understand about evolution. Such as: Gregor Mendel’s patterns of heredity (which gave Darwin’s idea of natural selection a mechanism — genetics — by which it could work); the discovery of DNA (which gave genetics a mechanism and lets us see evolutionary lineages); developmental biology (which gives DNA a mechanism); studies documenting evolution in nature (which converted the hypothetical to observable fact); evolution’s role in medicine and disease (bringing immediate relevance to the topic); and more. By propounding "Darwinism," even scientists and science writers perpetuate an impression that evolution is about one man, one book, one "theory." The ninth-century Buddhist master Lin Chi said, "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him." The point is that making a master teacher into a sacred fetish misses the essence of his teaching. So let us now kill Darwin.

That all life is related by common ancestry, and that populations change form over time, are the broad strokes and fine brushwork of evolution. But Darwin was late to the party. His grandfather, and others, believed new species evolved. Farmers and fanciers continually created new plant and animal varieties by selecting who survived to breed, thus handing Charles Darwin an idea. All Darwin perceived was that selection must work in nature, too. In 1859, Darwin’s perception and evidence became "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or The Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle for Life." Few realize he published 8 books before and 10 books after "Origin." He wrote seminal books on orchids, insects, barnacles and corals. He figured out how atolls form, and why they’re tropical. Credit Darwin’s towering genius. No mind ran so freely, so widely or so freshly over the hills and vales of existence. But there’s a limit to how much credit is reasonable. Parking evolution with Charles Darwin overlooks the limits of his time and all subsequent progress.

Science was primitive in Darwin’s day. Ships had no engines. Not until 1842, six years after Darwin’s Beagle voyage, did Richard Owen coin the term "dinosaur." Darwin was an adult before scientists began debating whether germs caused disease and whether physicians should clean their instruments. In 1850s London, John Snow fought cholera unaware that bacteria caused it. Not until 1857 did Johann Carl Fuhlrott and Hermann Schaaffhausen announce that unusual bones from the Neander Valley in Germany were perhaps remains of a very old human race. In 1860 Louis Pasteur performed experiments that eventually disproved "spontaneous generation," the idea that life continually arose from nonliving things. Science has marched on. But evolution can seem uniquely stuck on its founder. We don’t call astronomy Copernicism, nor gravity Newtonism. "Darwinism" implies an ideology adhering to one man’s dictates, like Marxism. And "isms" (capitalism, Catholicism, racism) are not science. "Darwinism" implies that biological scientists "believe in" Darwin’s "theory." It’s as if, since 1860, scientists have just ditto-headed Darwin rather than challenging and testing his ideas, or adding vast new knowledge.

Using phrases like "Darwinian selection" or "Darwinian evolution" implies there must be another kind of evolution at work, a process that can be described with another adjective. For instance, "Newtonian physics" distinguishes the mechanical physics Newton explored from subatomic quantum physics. So "Darwinian evolution" raises a question: What’s the other evolution? Into the breach: intelligent design. I am not quite saying Darwinism gave rise to creationism, though the "isms" imply equivalence. But the term "Darwinian" built a stage upon which "intelligent" could share the spotlight.

Charles Darwin didn’t invent a belief system. He had an idea, not an ideology. The idea spawned a discipline, not disciples. He spent 20-plus years amassing and assessing the evidence and implications of similar, yet differing, creatures separated in time (fossils) or in space (islands). That’s science. That’s why Darwin must go.

Almost everything we understand about evolution came after Darwin, not from him. He knew nothing of heredity or genetics, both crucial to evolution. Evolution wasn’t even Darwin’s idea. Darwin’s grandfather Erasmus believed life evolved from a single ancestor. "Shall we conjecture that one and the same kind of living filaments is and has been the cause of all organic life?" he wrote in "Zoonomia" in 1794. He just couldn’t figure out how. Charles Darwin was after the how. Thinking about farmers’ selective breeding, considering the high mortality of seeds and wild animals, he surmised that natural conditions acted as a filter determining which individuals survived to breed more individuals like themselves. He called this filter "natural selection." What Darwin had to say about evolution basically begins and ends right there. Darwin took the tiniest step beyond common knowledge. Yet because he perceived — correctly — a mechanism by which life diversifies, his insight packed sweeping power.

But he wasn’t alone. Darwin had been incubating his thesis for two decades when Alfred Russel Wallace wrote to him from Southeast Asia, independently outlining the same idea. Fearing a scoop, Darwin’s colleagues arranged a public presentation crediting both men. It was an idea whose time had come, with or without Darwin. Darwin penned the magnum opus. Yet there were weaknesses. Individual variation underpinned the idea, but what created variants? Worse, people thought traits of both parents blended in the offspring, so wouldn’t a successful trait be diluted out of existence in a few generations? Because Darwin and colleagues were ignorant of genes and the mechanics of inheritance, they couldn’t fully understand evolution.

Gregor Mendel, an Austrian monk, discovered that in pea plants inheritance of individual traits followed patterns. Superiors burned his papers posthumously in 1884. Not until Mendel’s rediscovered "genetics" met Darwin’s natural selection in the "modern synthesis" of the 1920s did science take a giant step toward understanding evolutionary mechanics. Rosalind Franklin, James Watson and Francis Crick bestowed the next leap: DNA, the structure and mechanism of variation and inheritance.

Darwin’s intellect, humility ("It is always advisable to perceive clearly our ignorance") and prescience astonish more as scientists clarify, in detail he never imagined, how much he got right. But our understanding of how life works since Darwin won’t swim in the public pool of ideas until we kill the cult of Darwinism. Only when we fully acknowledge the subsequent century and a half of value added can we really appreciate both Darwin’s genius and the fact that evolution is life’s driving force, with or without Darwin.

I think that you are correct to point out that scientists, who came after Darwin, discovered most of what we know about how species change. Darwin's contribution is his discovery that species change because the environment selects which traits survive.
 
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mark kennedy

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I too have studied the Scriptures in depth, I know what the creation account includes and it is almost entirely figurative language.
No, it's not, figurative language has to elements, the two things being compared. There is no basis for a comparison anywhere in Genesis 1, what your doing is reducing it to an allegory.
 
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mark kennedy

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I know that you did not refer to Darwin as evil. Another poster referred to Darwinism as "fruits of the devil." I don't know what people mean by Darwinism. It doesn't appear to have anything to do with Darwin, biology, or natural selection.

In sixty years of off-and-on contact with Fundamentalist Christians, they have complained to me about Darwin. Except for you, no one has mentioned Lamarck, Holmes, Spenser, or Grey.
Most Christians read the Bible devotionally, it wouldn't occur to them that there is some larger philosophical premise. In that regard they are not that different from Darwinians because I've seen view Darwinians that have the slightest interest in the life sciences.
 
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AV1611VET

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Treating redemptive history as fanciful poetic fantasy is equally false. The first five books of the Old Testament and the first five books of the New Testament are historical narratives. The divorce of Christian theism from history, including creation week, is to abandon the core doctrines of the Scriptures.
I totally agree.
mark kennedy said:
The first five books of the Old Testament and the first five books of the New Testament are historical narratives.
The OT books are broken down this way:

First seventeen books are historical.

Next five books are poetical.

Last seventeen books are prophetic.

Perfect balance! :)
 
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redleghunter

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You have completely misunderstood me. I do not believe in a literal and inerrant Bible and I do believe that life is a natural process. It is possible that "In the beginning God ..." but I am not convinced of that.
Are you creedal on the matter of creation. Meaning the general God is the creator of all that is seen and unseen?
 
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redleghunter

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and this is where misinterpertation of the word of GOD leads. No such thing as everlasting punishment. Bible teaches annihilation for the wicked, not burn for eternity as Darwin believed
There are probably 16 threads on annihilation. This is not one of them.
 
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mark kennedy

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and this is where misinterpertation of the word of GOD leads. No such thing as everlasting punishment. Bible teaches annihilation for the wicked, not burn for eternity as Darwin believed
Annihilation is not a simple matter and there is at least one verse the describes the torment being forever. Final judgment is essential doctrine, annihilation is not. I have worked through the proof texts and came to the conclusion that the body and soul are completely destroyed in the lake of fire. That is not to say that others who do the difficult task of working in doctrine cannot honestly come to another conclusion. The Genesis 1 account being figurative is another matter entirely, the text is not ambiquise.
 
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DeaconDean

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I do not believe in a literal and inerrant Bible

Based upon the above statement you made, I must ask you to cease and desist.

Upon your declaration of the above statement, you clearly are not a Fundamentalist, and therefore not allowed to debate in this area.

"A Fundamentalist Christian is a born again believer in Lord Jesus Christ who:
  1. Maintains an immovable allegiance to the inerrant, infallible, and verbally Inspired Bible;
In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against its theology. You may post in fellowship."

Source

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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JackRT

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Based upon the above statement you made, I must ask you to cease and desist.

Upon your declaration of the above statement, you clearly are not a Fundamentalist, and therefore not allowed to debate in this area.

"A Fundamentalist Christian is a born again believer in Lord Jesus Christ who:
  1. Maintains an immovable allegiance to the inerrant, infallible, and verbally Inspired Bible;
In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against its theology. You may post in fellowship."

Source

God Bless

Till all are one.

Roger, Wilco (will comply), Over and Out.
 
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lesliedellow

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I want to know about fundamentalists. They have a major interest in Darwin and natural selection. The AP American History textbook uses their interest in Darwin as a defining quality.

I'm wondering what Darwin has to do with Christianity. He appears to me to have been an Atheist.

QUOTE:
“I may state that my judgment often fluctuates. Moreover whether a man deserves to be called a theist depends on the definition of the term: which is much too large a subject for a note. In my most extreme fluctuations I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God.— I think that generally (& more and more so as I grow older) but not always, that an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind.”
(Charles Darwin writing to John Fordyce, 7 May 1879)
 
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joshua 1 9

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Annihilation is not a simple matter and there is at least one verse the describes the torment being forever.
That is a contradiction in terms. The Bible refers often to how God will destroy those who destroy the earth. There are some scriptures usually taken out of context that talks about hell or the grave. But the total destruction of all UnGodlyness is talked about in many many passages, not just a few. Even our own sin when we are cleansed we are transformed and God remembers our transgression no more.

Isaiah 65:17
"For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind.
 
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tkolter

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I believe in the literal reading of the Bible so oppose Evolution however the process of Adaption is a biological fact and common in many sciences such as Agricultural Science and Botany and it was observed within groups of animals. Humans selective breeding ,dogs for specific traits, is a clear and simple example.
 
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lesliedellow

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I want to know about fundamentalists. They have a major interest in Darwin and natural selection. The AP American History textbook uses their interest in Darwin as a defining quality.

I'm wondering what Darwin has to do with Christianity. He appears to me to have been an Atheist.

According to his own account, Darwin was never an atheist, and, as he grew older, he could best be described as an agnostic.

Fundamentalists are hung up about Darwin because the ToE cannot be reconciled with a literal reading of Genesis 1. It seems to me that they spend a great deal more time bad mouthing Darwin and his theory than they do giving serious attention to the theology of Genesis.
 
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DeaconDean

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According to his own account, Darwin was never an atheist, and, as he grew older, he could best be described as an agnostic.

Fundamentalists are hung up about Darwin because the ToE cannot be reconciled with a literal reading of Genesis 1. It seems to me that they spend a great deal more time bad mouthing Darwin and his theory than they do giving serious attention to the theology of Genesis.

I think you should spend a little time researching a man named Crawford H. Toy.

It might surprise you.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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Newtheran

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The Theory of Evolution and the Genesis Creation Narratives are only a problem to those Christians who interpret the Bible in a literalistic way.

No Genesis, no Jesus.
Know Genesis, know Jesus.

Genesis 3:15.
 
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