Charles Darwin

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Modern biologists are running away from being labeled "Darwinists." They know most of his work was debunked by 20th century science. Some do accept the label of Neo-Darwinist as only holding a philosophical position on evolution.

For two decades I worked with students in public schools. About once every four years I sat in biology classes. I don't remember ever hearing the term Darwinist. My recollection is that all of the biology teachers considered natural selection to be the correct explanation for the origin of species.
 
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redleghunter

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So in you view, life is a natural process, and God created the process, is that right?
YHWH is the uncreated Creator yes. This is what is stated in Genesis 1.

I will also acknowledge YHWH revealed creation to Israelites who were nomadic in the Bronze age using what some archeologists consider was this paleo Hebrew:

Hebrew Alphabet.png

Which can be compared here:

alphabet_chart (1).gif
 
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redleghunter

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biology teachers considered natural selection to be the correct explanation for the origin of species.
In what way? Something comes from nothing? How did public school teachers without at least a master's degree in biology explain such or just trust a text book?

So in what way were they teaching natural selection? Transitional species which never existed? At the molecular level? I'm curious.
 
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HereIStand

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Are you saying that Fundamentalists think that life is not a natural process?

Also, I wonder if Fundamentalists object to the time necessary for natural selection ... millions of years rather than six days.
Yes to both. There are some fundamentalists who believe in the gap theory, although its been challenged.
 
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Citation please. Most fundamentalist theologians in the late 19th century considered Darwinism as the fruits of the devil.
I still do.

And in fact, I think Darwin's, The Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life, is a prequel to Hitler's, My Struggle.
 
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HereIStand

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Along with the racial aspects of Darwinism, it's other downside is its link with the struggle for limited resources theory of Thomas Malthus. The only upside of Darwinism is that it basically acknowledges that naturally each person is out for his own interest. Apart from Christ, the Golden Rule is something to avoid, based on the competition for survival inherent in Darwinism.
 
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In what way? Something comes from nothing? How did public school teachers without at least a master's degree in biology explain such or just trust a text book?

So in what way were they teaching natural selection? Transitional species which never existed? At the molecular level? I'm curious.

When high school teachers talk about natural selection, they say that it is the process of the local environment selecting which variation best fits into each niche, something like a hand fitting into a glove. They consider all species as transitional species. Normally, they don't talk about how the first organism might have been formed. I sat in a class in which the teacher speculated that there must have been at least three different first organisms because modern organisms have three different genetic codes, in the nucleus, in mitochondria, and in one other organelle. Chloroplasts if I remember right.
 
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redleghunter

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Along with the racial aspects of Darwinism, it's other downside is its link with the struggle for limited resources theory of Thomas Malthus. The only upside of Darwinism is that it basically acknowledges that naturally each person is out for his own interest. Apart from Christ, the Golden Rule is something to avoid, based on the competition for survival inherent in Darwinism.
That is what I was getting at with the philosophical aspects. Thanks.
 
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redleghunter

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When high school teachers talk about natural selection, they say that it is the process of the local environment selecting which variation best fits into each niche, something like a hand fitting into a glove. They consider all species as transitional species. Normally, they don't talk about how the first organism might have been formed. I sat in a class in which the teacher speculated that there must have been at least three different first organisms because modern organisms have three different genetic codes, in the nucleus, in mitochondria, and in one other organelle. Chloroplasts if I remember right.
Thanks. This confirms materialists and naturalists still have issues explaining origins and purpose

Purpose as is "they say that it is the process of the local environment selecting which variation best fits into each niche, something like a hand fitting into a glove." There is something screaming in that statement for personification.
 
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mark kennedy

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Charles Darwin was a naturalist who wrote On The Origin of Species, it was one long argument against creationism.

Lamarck was the first man whose conclusions on the subject excited much attention. This justly celebrated naturalist first published his views in 1801; he much enlarged them in 1809 in his "Philosophie Zoologique", and subsequently, 1815, in the Introduction to his "Hist. Nat. des Animaux sans Vertebres". In these works he up holds the doctrine that all species, including man, are descended from other species. He first did the eminent service of arousing attention to the probability of all change in the organic, as well as in the inorganic world, being the result of law, and not of miraculous interposition. (Charles Darwin, On the Origin of the Species)​

It is an exclusively naturalistic worldview where miracles are categorically rejected. Darwinism is often referred to as the theory of evolution, but there is no theory of evolution. Evolution is a phenomenon in nature, the so called theory of evolution is the a priori (without prior) assumption of universal common ancestry by exclusively nationalistic causes going all the way back to and including the Big Bang.

At Cambridge studied Medical Science but didn't want to be a doctor, he said he couldn't stand to see children suffer. He switched to a ministry undergraduate degree which was very common at the time, much like a liberal arts degree. This was a man who knew so much about how favorable traits were passed on the future generations that he married his own cousin, as his grandfather had done. One of the biggest problems with inbreeding is you start to get bottlenecks in the gene pool, one of the first things to be compromised is the immune system. His daughter Anne died of scarlet fever, most biographers will tell you her death colors the book.

Darwin was known to be congenial, while in Cambridge he met a professor from Brazil who was a taxonomist. Stories about the rain forests fascinated young Charles and eventually he would set sail aboard the Beagle. The crew called him ole flycatcher and the kindly old philosopher. As they set sail Darwin was reading the geologist Lyell, who proposed a uniformatarian view of geology, layers added one after another over successive centuries. He applied this and the natural history philosophy of Larmark and on other key element.

Malthus’ most famous work, which he published in 1798, was An Essay on the Principle of Population as it affects the Future Improvement of Society. In it, Malthus raised doubts about whether a nation could ever reach a point where laws would no longer be required, and in which everyone lived prosperously and harmoniously. There was, he argued, a built-in agony to human existence, in that the growth of a population will always outrun its ability to feed itself. If every couple raised four children, the population could easily double in twenty-five years, and from then on, it would keep doubling. It would rise not arithmetically—by factors of three, four, five, and so on—but geometrically—by factors of four, eight, and sixteen.

world_pop.gif
Between 1800 and 2000 the human population increased about six-fold. Has the food supply kept pace? Will there be enough food to support the projected population of 9.2 billion in 2050? (The Ecology of Human Populations: Thomas Malthus. Berkeley)​

Don't believe for a minute this is just about how someone wants to interpret Scripture. This thing called Darwinism is a political and legal philosophy, espoused by people who are scared to death of an apocalyptic mass die off, due to overpopulation. The gay rights agenda has nothing to do with privacy or due process, it's the Ivy League types micromanaging people to stem the tide of over population.

Darwinism is more then one thing and it has little to do with evolution, it's about population control.
 
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So your belief in life's unnatural nature is somehow related to your belief in a literal and inerrant Bible. Is life unique in that respect? What other processes would you think of as not natural?

You have completely misunderstood me. I do not believe in a literal and inerrant Bible and I do believe that life is a natural process. It is possible that "In the beginning God ..." but I am not convinced of that.
 
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Tom 1

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I want to know about fundamentalists. They have a major interest in Darwin and natural selection. The AP American History textbook uses their interest in Darwin as a defining quality.

I'm wondering what Darwin has to do with Christianity. He appears to me to have been an Atheist.

Darwin started out as a Christian, became a theist and described himself as agnostic towards the end of his life. He recorded some of his thoughts about it in his autobiography. A lot of the conflict and difficulty arises when people treat the Genesis account of creation as a scientific text, this can lead to people misunderstanding that the Bible and science deal with very different issues.
 
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Darwin started out as a Christian, became a theist and described himself as agnostic towards the end of his life.
Gave up all this:
  1. the joy of his salvation - (Psalm 51:12)
  2. God's goodness - (Psalm 34:8)
  3. enlightenment - (Hebrews 6:4)
  4. a taste of the heavenly gift - (Hebrews 6:4)
  5. partaking of the Holy Ghost - (Hebrews 6:4)
  6. the good word of God - (Hebrews 6:5)
  7. the power of the world to come - (Hebrews 6:5)
... to embrace a godless discipline, did he?
 
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Tom 1

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Gave up all this:
  1. the joy of his salvation - (Psalm 51:12)
  2. God's goodness - (Psalm 34:8)
  3. enlightenment - (Hebrews 6:4)
  4. a taste of the heavenly gift - (Hebrews 6:4)
  5. partaking of the Holy Ghost - (Hebrews 6:4)
  6. the good word of God - (Hebrews 6:5)
  7. the power of the world to come - (Hebrews 6:5)
... to embrace a godless discipline, did he?

Unfortunately, yes. But in some part it was stubbornness on the part of Christian friends he had that made it difficult for him to reconcile his beliefs, and the basis for those beliefs in what other people thought, with what he learned about how evolution functions.
 
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Unfortunately, yes. But in some part it was stubbornness on the part of Christian friends he had that made it difficult for him to reconcile his beliefs, and the basis for those beliefs in what other people thought, with what he learned about how evolution functions.
So he chose evolution over God's benefits?

And wasn't Darwin wrong on evolution to begin with?
 
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Tom 1

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So he chose evolution over God's benefits?

And wasn't Darwin wrong on evolution to begin with?

I don’t know all that much about it. There were some things he was definitely right about, as they are observable, other ideas have been reveiwed and developed since. That’s for people who study it to explain, as far as I’m concerned. What I don’t get is why anyone would treat the Bible as a science textbook, as if God’s purpose were to explain how the physical universe works.
 
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What I don’t get is why anyone would treat the Bible as a science textbook, as if God’s purpose were to explain how the physical universe works.
I'm with you on this one.

Treating the Bible as a science textbook is like treating Bill Gate's diary as a computer manual.
 
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mark kennedy

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Darwin started out as a Christian, became a theist and described himself as agnostic towards the end of his life. He recorded some of his thoughts about it in his autobiography. A lot of the conflict and difficulty arises when people treat the Genesis account of creation as a scientific text, this can lead to people misunderstanding that the Bible and science deal with very different issues.
Darwin never made a profession of faith, the closest he ever came is he signed a boilerplate doctrinal statement when he graduated from college. From his autobiography.

I read with great care Pearson on the Creeds and a few other books on divinity; and as I did not then in the least doubt the strict and literal truth of every word in the Bible, I soon persuaded myself that our Creed must be fully accepted....

But I had gradually come, by this time, to see that the Old Testament from its manifestly false history of the world, with the Tower of Babel, the rainbow as a sign, etc., etc., and from its attributing to God the feelings of a revengeful tyrant, was no more to be trusted than the sacred books of the Hindoos, or the beliefs of any barbarian...

By further reflecting that the clearest evidence would be requisite to make any sane man believe in the miracles by which Christianity is supported...

Disbelief crept over me at a very slow rate, but was at last complete. The rate was so slow that I felt no distress, and have never since doubted even for a single second that my conclusion was correct. I can indeed hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true; for if so the plain language of the text seems to show that the men who do not believe, and this would include my Father, Brother and almost all my best friends, will be everlastingly punished.

And this is a damnable doctrine. (Charles Darwin's Autobiography)
Darwin accepted creeds he was exposed to, just accepting them without any indication of personal conversion. Over time he categorically rejected miracles, expressed famously in On the Origin of Species. His strongest words for religion are with regard to hell, he father and brother were atheists so he expected this meant they are doomed to perdition. This he rejects in no uncertain terms.

He was a life long agnostic and by the end of his life an avowed atheist. While I don't believe he was a bad man, he was never in any way shape or form a Christian.
 
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I'm with you on this one.

Treating the Bible as a science textbook is like treating Bill Gate's diary as a computer manual.
Treating redemptive history as fanciful poetic fantasy is equally false. The first five books of the Old Testament and the first five books of the New Testament are historical narratives. The divorce of Christian theism from history, including creation week, is to abandon the core doctrines of the Scriptures.
 
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