Can you be Christian and believe in evolution?

[olgamc]

So He deceived them, but it was for a good reason. O.K.

No. Satan and their own wickedness deceived them. God allowed it to happen, and yes, for a good reason. Because He is just.

God is also merciful, so He also provided a way for them not to be deceived, which is to believe the truth. But they chose to believe Satan over God because they loved wickedness.

 

[Jonaitis]

Just as long as our observation and understanding of the natural world doesn't cloud our understanding of spiritual matters. E.g. Nicodemus and being born again.

John 3:3-10
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.
10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?

Friend, if it contradicts what is real and tested, what does that make of our faith?

 

[olgamc]

Friend, if it contradicts what is real and tested, what does that make of our faith?

What is faith?

Hebrews 11:
"Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for. 3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible."

Nicodemus thought that being born again contradicts what is real and tested. Many think that resurrection of the dead contradicts what is real and tested. When what God says seems to contradict what we know, do we put our faith in Him or in what we know? If we want one day to stand next to all the people mentioned in Hebrews 11, we should put our faith in the Lord and not so much in our knowledge. I don't mean to say that we should deny science - not at all. But science, the study of the natural world, should bring us closer to God, because all creation manifests His glory. If we are using the study of God's creation to believe lies about God - what does that make of us or of our faith?

 

[Diamond7]

What is faith?

Faith is a work of God in us that goes beyond the power of positive thinking and positive mental attitude. My father was a doctor and he was very good at using the power of suggestion to get positive results. So I am well aware of what only God can do and what is beyond our ability apart from God.

 

[sfs]

By the way, if anyone is interested in people trying to do biblically-based theology that doesn't simply dismiss evolution, I'm currently reading an interesting collection published by Eerdmans, called Evolution and the Fall. It's got contributions from a wide range of theological traditions.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The fact that millions of Christians all over the planet accept biological evolution without any problem or injury to their Christian confession is evidence that one can be a Christian and accept the science of biological evolution.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Diamond7]

The theory came from Kabballah...

Nahmanides taught that although the days are 24 hours each, they contain "kol yemot ha-olam" - all the ages and all the secrets of the world. Nahmanides says that before the universe, there was nothing... but then suddenly the entire creation appeared as a minuscule speck. He gives a description for the speck: something very tiny, smaller than a grain of mustard. And he says that is the only physical creation. There was no other physical creation; all other creations were spiritual. The Nefesh (the soul of animal life, Genesis 1:21) and the Neshama (the soul of human life, Genesis 1:27) are spiritual creations.

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe

Nahmanides did not know about quantum physics. So he did not know there was something before the physical universe began. All we know is that nothing has been added from the first instant of time. What they call a zeptosecond or Plank time. Although there is some discrepancy between when and where the laws of physics are. The interplay between when and where the laws of physics operate is a rich tapestry woven by the cosmos itself. They are still working on the theory of everything.

 

[Diamond7]

Chance and random mutations are insufficient

The problem is a good part of "mutations" now is frame shift.

 

[Diamond7]

2. Every organism is slightly different than its parents.

You have to go back a long way to find the beginning of recombination. Long before male and female.

 

[Diamond7]

So, because God told Job that He laid the earth's foundation, then He was there.

NOTHING has been added from the first Zeptosecond of time. So we were all there in the beginning. Everything that every was, we were there.

 

[truthpls]

Nahmanides taught that although the days are 24 hours each, they contain "kol yemot ha-olam" - all the ages and all the secrets of the world. Nahmanides says that before the universe, there was nothing... but then suddenly the entire creation appeared as a minuscule speck.

God says He created it. No specks involved

He gives a description for the speck: something very tiny, smaller than a grain of mustard. And he says that is the only physical creation.

So he is wrong and anti bible. No big news there

There was no other physical creation; all other creations were spiritual.

Pipe dream

Nahmanides did not know about quantum physics. So he did not know there was something before the physical universe began.

Even those who know physics do not know there was something there before

All we know is that nothing has been added from the first instant of time.

False/ One each and every day of creation things were added.

What they call a zeptosecond or Plank time. Although there is some discrepancy between when and where the laws of physics are.

And some question about what time is and whether it in contained in physics.

The interplay between when and where the laws of physics operate is a rich tapestry woven by the cosmos itself.

No. The way and extent of laws operating is set in place by God. The cosmos has zero to do with it. The cosmos obeys.

They are still working on the theory of everything.

They are confused and unable to come to a knowledge of the truth so do not hold your breath

 

[Diamond7]

God says He created it. No specks involved

Because time is infinite with God. Even He is past, present and future all at the same time.

So he is wrong and anti bible. No big news there

He said this 1,000 years ago and MANY people are still talking about it today. Your statement sounds anti-Semitic to me. You forget, we get our Bible from them. Expect for Luke everyone one in the Bible is "Jewish".

False/ One each and every day of creation things were added.

What was added to the Universe that was not here before?

And some question about what time is and whether it in contained in physics.

Really? You do not know what time is but you are a self professed expert on time? This does not add up.

No. The way and extent of laws operating is set in place by God.

Physics are natural laws. Jesus said in Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished".

First you do not understand time, now you do not understand what natural laws are. This is a wild ride you are taking us on.

 

[The Barbarian]

You have to go back a long way to find the beginning of recombination. Long before male and female.

The evidence suggests it goes back before DNA. But certainly by the time there was cellular life. It's called "conjugation."

God says He created it.

The issue is that you seem to disapprove of the way He did it.

 

[Diamond7]

The evidence suggests it goes back before DNA.

We are told God made them male and female and that Eve came from the side of Adam. You have to go back a long time to see when this happened. Still science and the Bible agree and do not contradict each other. As they say: God says it and that settles it.

 

[Fervent]

We are told God made them male and female and that Eve came from the side of Adam. You have to go back a long time to see when this happened. Still science and the Bible agree and do not contradict each other. As they say: God says it and that settles it.

The trouble is, you're engaged in a rather creative and intricate re-interpretation of the Genesis narrative in order to make the claim that they don't contradict. Anyone who's not motivated to harmonize them isn't going to follow, and the attempt just looks like a rather bizarre attempt at rationalization rather than being a compelling argument.

 

[trophy33]

Still science and the Bible agree and do not contradict each other. As they say: God says it and that settles it.

They do not agree. You are creating highly speculative extra-biblical claims and peculiar individual interpretations in your try to make them agree.

I guess most people do not even understand your interpretations, because they are so wild.

 

[Fervent]

They do not agree. You are creating highly speculative extra-biblical claims and peculiar individual interpretations in your try to make them agree.

I guess most people do not even understand your interpretations, because they are so wild.

I think a lot of that kind of weirdness comes from people clinging to a verbal-plenary view of inspiration, rather than interacting with the Bible that we have. It's obvious to unbiased observers that the Genesis narrative, if taken to be a genuine description of the creation event, fails miserably when compared to modern scientific evidence. But last time I checked, belief in a literal interpretation of Genesis was not an essential for salvation. The only thing that cannot be compromised in the Biblical account is that Jesus died by crucifixion and was raised from the dead 3 days later, and that's a matter of faith(with some view to historic evidence) rather than scientific inquiry.

 

[The Barbarian]

But last time I checked, belief in a literal interpretation of Genesis was not an essential for salvation. The only thing that cannot be compromised in the Biblical account is that Jesus died by crucifixion and was raised from the dead 3 days later, and that's a matter of faith(with some view to historic evidence) rather than scientific inquiry.

Today's winner.

 

[truthpls]

The evidence suggests it goes back before DNA. But certainly by the time there was cellular life. It's called "conjugation."


The issue is that you seem to disapprove of the way He did it.

At least I don't disapprove of the way He said He did it

 

[truthpls]

Because time is infinite with God. Even He is past, present and future all at the same time.

That doesn't mean He runs on earth time. We do

He said this 1,000 years ago and MANY people are still talking about it today. Your statement sounds anti-Semitic to me. You forget, we get our Bible from them. Expect for Luke everyone one in the Bible is "Jewish".

Not honouring the anti bible writings of some religious cabal has nothing to do with being 'anti Semitic'. I am anti heretic theories

What was added to the Universe that was not here before?

Something was added to nothing before something existed? Explain

Really? You do not know what time is but you are a self professed expert on time? This does not add up.

Pointing out that time may not be part of 'physics' does not make one an expert on what the full meaning of time is

Physics are natural laws. Jesus said in Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished".

First you do not understand time, now you do not understand what natural laws are. This is a wild ride you are taking us on.

How does anything Jesus said there limit time to being a 'natural' law?