I recently had a debate with a pair of open theists on another site. As a quick overview for those who aren't familiar with open theism, it basically boils down to a few points.
1) Time is eternal and not a creation of God's
2) God is stuck in time
3) God does not have exhaustive foreknowledge
4) Man has full libertarian free will and it can never be violated
There are more but you get the idea. Anyway, in regards to the exhaustive foreknowledge point, these open theists pointed to
1 Samuel 13:13-14: Samuel said to Saul, "You have acted foolishly;you have not kept the commandment of the Lordyour God, which He commanded you, for now the Lord would have established your kingdom[a]over Israel forever. But now your kingdom shall not endure. The Lord has sought out for Himself a man after His own heart, and the Lord has appointed him as ruler over His people, because you have not kept what theLord commanded you."
Genesis 2:19 Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the [p]sky, andbrought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.
Genesis 22:12 He said, "Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for nowI know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me."
They use these verses to point to the idea that God did not know these things would happen, and therefore could not have exhaustive foreknowledge. There are of course others (mostly taken out of context and which I was easily able to show their meanings and how they did not reinforce open theism) but these ones actually gave me pause. Not that I believe in anyway that open theism is correct, but that I didn't have a suitable response. Any ideas? Any thoughts? I'm loathe to let me ignorance continue on this sort of thing...
1) Time is eternal and not a creation of God's
2) God is stuck in time
3) God does not have exhaustive foreknowledge
4) Man has full libertarian free will and it can never be violated
There are more but you get the idea. Anyway, in regards to the exhaustive foreknowledge point, these open theists pointed to
1 Samuel 13:13-14: Samuel said to Saul, "You have acted foolishly;you have not kept the commandment of the Lordyour God, which He commanded you, for now the Lord would have established your kingdom[a]over Israel forever. But now your kingdom shall not endure. The Lord has sought out for Himself a man after His own heart, and the Lord has appointed him as ruler over His people, because you have not kept what theLord commanded you."
Genesis 2:19 Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the [p]sky, andbrought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.
Genesis 22:12 He said, "Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for nowI know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me."
They use these verses to point to the idea that God did not know these things would happen, and therefore could not have exhaustive foreknowledge. There are of course others (mostly taken out of context and which I was easily able to show their meanings and how they did not reinforce open theism) but these ones actually gave me pause. Not that I believe in anyway that open theism is correct, but that I didn't have a suitable response. Any ideas? Any thoughts? I'm loathe to let me ignorance continue on this sort of thing...
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