Apostle John did not see mother Mary in heaven

[prodromos]

They are 24 elders at the Throne

Are you claiming that Enoch and Elijah are two of the 24 elders? On what basis?

How can the so called queen of heaven /Mother of God is not seen on the Throne ?

The queen does not sit on the king's throne.

 

[Servant78]

Are you claiming that Enoch and Elijah are two of the 24 elders? On what basis?

The queen does not sit on the king's throne.

You use the Strawman fallacy to refer to Enoch and Elijah which isnt connected to the topic

 

[prodromos]

You use the Strawman fallacy to refer to Enoch and Elijah which isnt connected to the topic

Not at all. You are claiming that because John didn't see Mary in his vision, that Mary must not be in heaven, yet he didn't see Enoch or Elijah who we know are in heaven, so obviously his vision was not all encompassing.

 

[Servant78]

Not at all. You are claiming that because John didn't see Mary in his vision, that Mary must not be in heaven, yet he didn't see Enoch or Elijah who we know are in heaven, so obviously his vision was not all encompassing.

And why there is no light of Mary either shining on the new Jerusalem of Revelation 21:23

 

[Aussie Pete]

Jesus is the New David. In the ancient monarchy, the queen was never the wife of the King, but the mother. She sat at his right hand and interceded for the people. Jesus is the King. Mary is the queen mother.

You are half right. Jesus is King. Mary is just another disciple.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Not at all. You are claiming that because John didn't see Mary in his vision, that Mary must not be in heaven, yet he didn't see Enoch or Elijah who we know are in heaven, so obviously his vision was not all encompassing.

John did not see Mary at the right hand of Jesus. If Mary is so great, why is she never mentioned in the epistles? Much is said about the Lord Jesus. He lives to intercede for us. Nothing is said about Mary interceding for us.

 

[Servant78]

The queen does not sit on the king's throne.

Have you seen her ?

 

[Aussie Pete]

He didn't see Enoch or Elijah either.

Enoch and Elijah are not interceding for the saints (i.e.all who are born again).

 

[Aussie Pete]

Like every other part of the Bible, God tells us what we need to know and what He wants us to know. He does not always tell us what we want to know.

Christ the King is Biblical, therefore Mary as "Queen Mother" is also.

Problem with reformed protestantism is the irrational rejection of all things catholic; even the good parts such as valid Marion theology, the commemoration of the saints, efficacy of the sacraments, and liturgical worship. All of which are supported by Scripture, and by the apostolic teachings from the 1st through 3rd century. Most Protestants Just throw the baby out with the bath-water, and trade faith for works righteousness, legalism and pietism, and drop the ball on Christ's gifts of grace given not only in the Word, but in the Sacraments.

"The sons gather wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead the dough to make cakes for the Queen of Heaven; they pour out drink offerings to other gods to provoke Me to anger." Jeremiah 7:18

Protestants rightly reject the so-called "good" parts of Catholic doctrine. That some Protestants are also in error does not make Catholicism right.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Enoch and Elijah are not interceding for the saints (i.e.all who are born again).

Certainly, one can not be sure of such. I believe it is most likely that they are.

 

[RileyG]

You are half right. Jesus is King. Mary is just another disciple.

Mary is the mother of the King, the Queen Mother. She is NOT just another disciple. She gave birth to GOD.

 

[RileyG]

Enoch and Elijah are not interceding for the saints (i.e.all who are born again).

They can certainty pray for us and the Church militant.

 

[Aussie Pete]

They can certainty pray for us and the Church militant.

Says the Catholic organisation with no basis whatsoever.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Certainly, one can not be sure of such. I believe it is most likely that they are.

On what basis? Why is it even necessary? The Holy Spirit within expresses the desire of our hearts that we can't find words for and Lord Jesus is in heaven, interceding for us there, The church on earth intercedes for other Christians. That's all that God's word has to say on the matter.

 

[RileyG]

Says the Catholic organisation with no basis whatsoever.

*Church, not organization and see Rev. 5:8

 

[RileyG]

Nestorianism is alive and well. yikes!

 

[prodromos]

Says the Catholic organisation with no basis whatsoever.

I wouldn't call 2000 years of lived experience, "no basis". If nothing happened as a result of those prayers then the practice would have ended long ago, but since miracles regularly occur as a result of those prayers, it seems that God is pleased with the practice.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

On what basis? Why is it even necessary? The Holy Spirit within expresses the desire of our hearts that we can't find words for and Lord Jesus is in heaven, interceding for us there, The church on earth intercedes for other Christians. That's all that God's word has to say on the matter.

Well, here is the easy answer; and BTW, it would be reasonable to conclude that the angels in heaven are directly involved in this intercession as well:

1. Revelation 5:8
   And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Revelation 8:3
   And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne,
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. Revelation 8:4
   and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

You are going to have to explain your Christology. Is Jesus CHrist God become man or is He simply a human body ocupied by or 'possessed' by God?
Who was the "Lord" Elizabeth referred to when, filled with the Holy Spirit, she called Mary the "mother of her Lord"?

I think it is far more likely His brothers brought Mary along to try and use her as emotional blackmail on Jesus. The Bible depicts her as obedient to God.

His brothers attitude towards Him is entirely consistent with older brothers trying to direct their celebrity little brother. It is not consistent with children who had grown up in the shadow of the perfect elder brother. Ancient Coptic icons depict a young James accompanying Joseph and Mary with the Christ child on their flight to Egypt.

I've never been Catholic and I read the Bible every day. Do you ever consider that your own interpretation of the Scriptures could be in error?

Good reply!, the dishonor that the Australian member is spewing regarding the blessed Virgin Mary is indeed sad, and for me not worthy of a reply. Our Lord chose to tell us so much about her in Scripture, that to dismiss her in such a way is likely a risk to one's own soul. Blessings my friend!.

Luke 1:
Mary's Song of Praise: The Magnificat

46 And Mary said,

“My soul magnifies the Lord,
47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48 for he has looked on the humble estate of his servant.
For behold, from now on all generations will call me blessed;
49 for he who is mighty has done great things for me,
and holy is his name.
50 And his mercy is for those who fear him
from generation to generation.
51 He has shown strength with his arm;
he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts;
52 he has brought down the mighty from their thrones
and exalted those of humble estate;
53 he has filled the hungry with good things,
and the rich he has sent away empty.
54 He has helped his servant Israel,
in remembrance of his mercy,
55 as he spoke to our fathers,
to Abraham and to his offspring forever.”

56 And Mary remained with her about three months and returned to her home.​

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Says the Catholic organisation with no basis whatsoever.

You mean Church, and the Orthodox and Confessional Lutherans also hold this "catholic faith". What ever splinter-sect that you are would have came out of one of these traditions; you should maybe consider where you came from. Growing in one's faith is like following a road map. Unless you know where you came from, there is no way to figure out where you are going.