Am I The Only One

[GenemZ]

Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.


"Death and Hades..." What can that mean?


He said to another man, “Follow me.”

But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”


Unbelievers awaiting judgment in Hades will be thrown into the Lake of Fire!

All unbelievers are DEAD in God's eye. Collectively, God refers to them as DEATH.

DEATH is now being held in Hades awaiting the final judgment.

Both the DEAD and Hades will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

 

[GenemZ]

The false prophet would have been a human being.
I think Matthew 25:46 answers what happens to those in the lake of fire.
The lake of fire is called "the second death" twice but no scripture ever says that anyone or anything is thrown into the lake of fire then they die.

Hope this helps....

What is called the "second resurrection" is designated for the unbeliever. Unbelievers will be resurrected in their body of sin to appear before the Lord for condemnation.

"Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the
graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to
the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection
of condemnation." Jn 5:28-29​

Unbelievers will be resurrected to face judgment. They will be made alive again to stand before the Lord. When they are thrown into the Lake of Fire. As their bodies enter the flames they die a second time. Hence... "second death."


grace and peace .........

 

[Shrewd Manager]

All unbelievers are DEAD in God's eye.

He is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him. (Lk 20:38).

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. (1 Cor 15:26)

Once death is destroyed, what remains?

Hint: In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (Jn 1:4).

Those who love their sins unto death and refuse to come to the light need to be given life.

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. (Isa 1:18)

But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap: (Mal 3:2)

A good scrub in the hot tub laver before entering the temple is what's needed, for nothing unclean will ever enter it.

GOD RAISES THE DEAD TO LIFE.

Lessons from Calvary 101.

 

[GenemZ]

He is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him. (Lk 20:38).

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. (1 Cor 15:26)

Once death is destroyed, what remains?

Hint: In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (Jn 1:4).

Those who love their sins unto death and refuse to come to the light need to be given life.

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. (Isa 1:18)

But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap: (Mal 3:2)

A good scrub in the hot tub laver before entering the temple is what's needed, for nothing unclean will ever enter it.

GOD RAISES THE DEAD TO LIFE.

Lessons from Calvary 101.

You took a shot at it....

So? You are saying there is really no such thing as evil. Its only an illusion to be burned away?

The devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were also thrown. They will be tortured day and night forever and ever." Rev 20:10​

So? God is now a respecter of persons? ....

According to you? Only certain unbelievers will be in the Lake of Fire for ever and ever. Others will be "burned free?"

Why can the Devil not be "burned free?" And, the false prophet was human! Why not him?

Why would God lie, like you say He is misleading us with?

Enjoy... New song of an old hit. Instead of "Born Free." In your church the congregation should sing.... "Burned Free! Free as the wind blows"....

 

[JacksBratt]

Do you understand the difference between confession and repentance? Some people use the terms synonymously, but they are two different things.

Saint Steven said:
And that basis is repentance? (conditional salvation)
Do you believe in death bed confessions? (no repentance)

How can you repent if you don't confess what you are repenting from?

 

[GenemZ]

How can you repent if you don't confess what you are repenting from?

You lusted? .. You name it to God = confession.

Confession does not make you free of the potential to lust again.

On the other hand. You have been promoting false doctrine? Being told its false is not enough to "confess" you are wrong. You need refutation. You need to be educated in correct doctrine to show the "wrongness" of the false doctrine.

If you accept the correction? You will change your way of thinking. That is repentance.

When you confess sins you must recognize them as being wrong, and you are already knowing its wrong. No need to change your thinking. Therefore, no need for repentance. Just admit you slipped up.

Confession requires recognizing your sins and admitting them to God. (1 John 1:9)

Repentance requires first getting "an education," and then after realizing your error - repenting by changing from your old way of thinking to what the correction pointed to.

There's the difference. Back when the Bible was written "to repent" meant to change one's thinking on a matter from error to correct. Or, even from correct, to error if one becomes evil in one's heart. Like when King Saul began to hate David.

 

[JacksBratt]

You lusted? .. You name it to God = confession.

Confession does not make you free of the potential to lust again.

On the other hand. You have been promoting false doctrine? Being told its false is not enough to "confess" you are wrong. You need refutation. You need to be educated in correct doctrine to show the "wrongness" of the false doctrine.

If you accept the correction? You will change your way of thinking. That is repentance.

When you confess sins you must recognize them as being wrong, and you are already knowing its wrong. No need to change your thinking. Therefore, no need for repentance. Just admit you slipped up.

Confession requires recognizing your sins and admitting them to God. (1 John 1:9)

Repentance requires first getting "an education," and then after realizing your error - repenting by changing from your old way of thinking to what the correction pointed to.

There's the difference. Back when the Bible was written "to repent" meant to change one's thinking on a matter from error to correct. Or, even from correct, to error if one becomes evil in one's heart. Like when King Saul began to hate David.

The way I see it is like this:

I rob a bank... I can confess it all I want.. Even boast about it.. "Ha, I robbed a bank".. Or you can say to the priest.. "I robbed the bank"....

So what? Confessing is nothing without repenting. The two go hand in hand.

I figure, if a person is on a death bed, confessing their life of sin to God... It can be two ways...

1/ "God, I was a sinner." With no remorse, no humility, no regret.

2/" God, I was a sinner" Please forgive me". With remorse, regret and humility...

I stand by my statement. You cannot repent if you don't confess and own up to what you have done and are repenting from.

God knows the heart.

 

[GenemZ]

The way I see it is like this:

I rob a bank... I can confess it all I want.. Even boast about it.. "Ha, I robbed a bank".. Or you can say to the priest.. "I robbed the bank"....

So what? Confessing is nothing without repenting. The two go hand in hand.

I figure, if a person is on a death bed, confessing their life of sin to God... It can be two ways...

1/ "God, I was a sinner." With no remorse, no humility, no regret.

2/" God, I was a sinner" Please forgive me". With remorse, regret and humility...

I stand by my statement. You cannot repent if you don't confess and own up to what you have done and are repenting from.

God knows the heart.

Repent means a change in one's thinking. Living with the delusion that bank robbery is a noble thing to do, requires repentance.

Lusting for the bank teller, requires confession.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

You took a shot at it....

Don't like those scriptures? Are you one of those selective scripture monkeys?

ou are saying there is really no such thing as evil. Its only an illusion to be burned away?

Where do you get that impression? Evil is overcome at the cross and for good at the apokatastasis or anakainosis when God makes all things new.

The devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were also thrown. They will be tortured day and night forever and ever." Rev 20:10

The literal translation is "for eons and eons". It sure is a pity that you think the devil is too tough for Jesus, who can only croon to him "Just unforgivable, that's...what you are".

So? God is now a respecter of persons? ....

Are you saying God respects you for protecting His honour? You may be a simian more beloved than Simeon, who Jesus healed by asking thricely, "Do you love me?"

According to you? Only certain unbelievers will be in the Lake of Fire for ever and ever. Others will be "burned free?"

Why can the Devil not be "burned free?" And, the false prophet was human! Why not him?

Why would God lie, like you say He is misleading us with?

You run hard, but seem to have left the ball behind. I'm not sure your reasoning is really up to scratch here, we're just proceeding with a little something called 'basic logic', to wit: Jesus saves, God wants all saved, so who'd be the big loser if it didn't happen? I invite you to ponder on it over a banana.

 

[GenemZ]

Where do you get that impression? Evil is overcome at the cross and for good at the apokatastasis or anakainosis when God makes all things new.

It does not say Jesus died for "evil." It says he died for mankind's sins.

All men are sinners. But, not all men are evil.

In order for Jesus to die for evil? He would have had to reject Himself. To become unfaithful. Impossible!

The saying is trustworthy:
For if we died with him, we will also live with him;
if we endure, we will also reign with him;
if we deny him, he also will deny us;
if we are unfaithful, he remains faithful—he cannot deny himself."

2 Tim 2:11-13​

Jesus rejects sin. Never Himself. He is Faithfulness. He can not become faithless (evil).

What makes men evil is their rejection of having faith.

As for other matters, brothers and sisters, pray for us that the message of the Lord may spread rapidly and be honored, just as it was with you. And pray that we may be delivered from wicked and evil people, for not everyone has faith."

2 Thes 3:1-2​

Evil rejects God. Evil rejects sound doctrine. Evil promotes and teaches false doctrine.

In contrast to evil, sin only cuts one off from fellowship with God Cuts off from fellowship as long as that sin is not confessed and admitted to. (1 John 1:9)

Evil was not overcome at the Cross. Only sin was. Right now evil is in the process of being overcome by the Lord. Its to be an ongoing process as the Lord is making his enemies into His footstool. (1 Cor 15:24-25)

When He is finished making His enemies His footstool? He will at that point have overcome evil. Evil was not overcome at the Cross. Sin was overcome.

The Lake of Fire is where its torment will silence all manifestations of evil. For those who were evil before? They will be too preoccupied with their never ending agony to ever have any time to conceive any more evil thoughts, let alone evil action. They will be constantly unable to think, nor scheme evil.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

The Lake of Fire is where its torment will silence all manifestations of evil. For those who were evil before? They will be too preoccupied with their never ending agony to ever have any time to conceive any more evil thoughts, let alone evil action. They will be constantly unable to think, nor scheme evil.

I won't quibble with your sin/ evil distinction, although I'll say a house of cards built on foundations of quicksand is a sight to behold.

So let me ask you this - how are all manifestations of evil silenced by eternal torment? In particular, how is eternal torment itself not the selfsame manifestation of evil raised to the nth power? How is your doctrine not simply the eternal enthronement of evil?

If we, who are evil, can give good gifts, how much more our Father in heaven?

Can satan be cast out by the power of satan?

 

[Saint Steven]

How can you repent if you don't confess what you are repenting from?

In most cases that is true. I agree.
The turning away (repentance) comes after the verbal agreement (confession).

However, repentance (turning away) could come without VERBAL confession (agreement). A Catholic would understand this as a mental decision to stop doing something (turning away = repentance) prior to attending a formal confession with a Priest.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Do you understand the difference between confession and repentance? Some people use the terms synonymously, but they are two different things.

Saint Steven said:
And that basis is repentance? (conditional salvation)
Do you believe in death bed confessions? (no repentance)

 

[GenemZ]

I won't quibble with your sin/ evil distinction, although I'll say a house of cards built on foundations of quicksand is a sight to behold.

So let me ask you this - how are all manifestations of evil silenced by eternal torment? In particular, how is eternal torment itself not the selfsame manifestation of evil raised to the nth power? How is your doctrine not simply the eternal enthronement of evil?

If we, who are evil, can give good gifts, how much more our Father in heaven?

Can satan be cast out by the power of satan?

Judge not lest ye be judged.. as you judge, so shall you be judged.

Long story-short. Lucifer is the name given by some to the angel that appears in Isaiah 14:12-14.

Why some used the name Lucifer? Because it portrays perfectly the one being described.

How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of dawn!
You are cut down to the ground, conqueror of nations!​

Now is where it can run into trouble.

Because if you are a young earth creationist? It will cause you to slam the door to your heart shut.

There was a prehistoric world ... One that was created for angels to have dominion over. Like Adam was created to have dominion over this world.

There were two "races" of angels created. Light bearers (morning stars), and regular angels (sons of God). They supplied the guiding lights in the sky of the prehistoric worlds. Satan used to herald in the mornings of each day. And, like we witness to in the first three days in Genesis, the Lord (not the sun) sustained the light of day. Only on the fourth day were the sun, moon, and stars provided. In the prehistoric creation angels partook of the lighting and effects upon nature.

We get a glimpse at this reality of only some angels bearing light in Job 38, where the Lord shows Job how when this planet was created. Also shown - there were two kinds of angels rejoicing as they saw it taking place. One kind was light bearing.

Who determined its measurements?
Surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
To what were its foundations fastened?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy? vs 5-7​

Satan was the highest ranking light bearing angel.

When Satan rebelled against God and things began becoming chaotic, Satan discovered a distortion of his tremendous light bearing ability. He would in anger burn things up.

To make it short. Satan realized his power and desired to burn up the Lord as to remove Him and replace Him. "I will make myself like the Most High." (He was a murderer from the beginning!)

That is why Jesus said he saw Satan being thrown down to earth like lightning! That took place when Satan in a fury judged the Lord worthy of being burned up! Satan got instantly thrown down to earth!

The result of Satan's hatred and desire to murder the Lord? So be it! As Satan judged the Lord, in his evil desire to burn Him up? So shall Satan and his followers be judged. Fire.

In a nutshell .. That was as how God derived the Lake of Fire as judgement. Satan himself was the author of the concept. God simply judged Satan as he had judged the Lord...

Amen.

 

[GenemZ]

Can satan be cast out by the power of satan?

"Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided
against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself
will stand. And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself.
How then will his kingdom stand?" Mat 12:25-26​

Jesus was sending a red light warning to Satan, about what Jesus knew was to be coming in the future.

For at present Satan has organized a pseudo church within the church. One that requires false teachers to cast our demons and perform miracles while using the name of Jesus to do so. It wins over those who neglect sound doctrine and live by their emotions.

Satan thinks he is clever and winning points. Yet, all the while, Jesus was saying that when that happens? Its a sign that Satan's ruin is coming and for sure.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom
of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in
heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we
not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name,
and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare
to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ Matthew 7:21-23​

All done in "Jesus name." Yet, they were never saved! ("I never knew you." )

grace and truth ........

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Judge not lest ye be judged.. as you judge, so shall you be judged.

Long story-short. Lucifer is the name given by some to the angel that appears in Isaiah 14:12-14.

Why some used the name Lucifer? Because it portrays perfectly the one being described.

How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of dawn!
You are cut down to the ground, conqueror of nations!​

Now is where it can run into trouble.

Because if you are a young earth creationist? It will cause you to slam the door to your heart shut.

There was a prehistoric world ... One that was created for angels to have dominion over. Like Adam was created to have dominion over this world.

There were two "races" of angels created. Light bearers (morning stars), and regular angels (sons of God). They supplied the guiding lights in the sky of the prehistoric worlds. Satan used to herald in the mornings of each day. And, like we witness to in the first three days in Genesis, the Lord (not the sun) sustained the light of day. Only on the fourth day were the sun, moon, and stars provided. In the prehistoric creation angels partook of the lighting and effects upon nature.

We get a glimpse at this reality of only some angels bearing light in Job 38, where the Lord shows Job how when this planet was created. Also shown - there were two kinds of angels rejoicing as they saw it taking place. One kind was light bearing.

Who determined its measurements?
Surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
To what were its foundations fastened?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy? vs 5-7​

Satan was the highest ranking light bearing angel.

When Satan rebelled against God and things began becoming chaotic, Satan discovered a distortion of his tremendous light bearing ability. He would in anger burn things up.

To make it short. Satan realized his power and desired to burn up the Lord as to remove Him and replace Him. "I will make myself like the Most High." (He was a murderer from the beginning!)

That is why Jesus said he saw Satan being thrown down to earth like lightning! That took place when Satan in a fury judged the Lord worthy of being burned up! Satan got instantly thrown down to earth!

The result of Satan's hatred and desire to murder the Lord? So be it! As Satan judged the Lord, in his evil desire to burn Him up? So shall Satan and his followers be judged. Fire.

In a nutshell .. That was as how God derived the Lake of Fire as judgement. Satan himself was the author of the concept. God simply judged Satan as he had judged the Lord...

Amen.

Again, I'm happy to roll with all that. But it only tells part of the story. First, condign justice - the punishment should fit the crime - cannot consist in eternal torture for temporal sin (ie the sins of man), as the scales are infinitely imbalanced, the punishment is infinitely unjust, therefore pure evil. Second, it excludes the role of divine grace and mercy. God's anger is but for a moment, His mercy lasts forever.

Consider James 2:13: For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Divine judgment is tempered and eclipsed by mercy. In fact, the role of judgment is corrective and restorative, to produce a change of heart. God's love can NEVER be removed from the equation.

The devil was once the lead angel in the Morning Stars band, God entrusted him with a great contribution to creation. He must have ministered as a flame of fire. But through pride and envy did he fall, and is the author of sorrows on earth unto this very day.

The devil will be tormented in the fire because the fire is God's grace, to refine off the dross, to consume the wheat hay and chaff, His essence of purifying love, which the devil cannot tolerate. The devil can stand earthly flame, why would that bother him? What torments him is that he has no way to ever overcome the passionate love of Christ, and his resistance just makes it burn more.

All things on heaven and earth must ultimately confess, surrender and be subdued to Christ, so that God may be all in all. How can Christ be victorious if his enemies still hate him?

 

[GenemZ]

Again, I'm happy to roll with all that. But it only tells part of the story. First, condign justice - the punishment should fit the crime - cannot consist in eternal torture for temporal sin (ie the sins of man), as the scales are infinitely imbalanced, the punishment is infinitely unjust, therefore pure evil. Second, it excludes the role of divine grace and mercy. God's anger is but for a moment, His mercy lasts forever.

Why even mention mercy then if all will receive a reprieve ?

Why is God playing this game of cat and mouse, as you portray Him to be?

God means what He says. He is holy.

Apparently, you can not handle that reality. You fear for Satan it seems.


The punishment does match the crime?

Would you find it excusable if someone wanted to murder the Perfect Lord to take His place? Murder Him in a horrendous way? You sound like someone who would give someone leniency after placing Bambi in a wood chipper.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Why even mention mercy then if all will receive a reprieve ?

Not a reprieve per se, justice will be served. But it's not only retributive justice, it's corrective and restorative justice. God's justice policy is perfect.

God means what He says. He is holy.

He says He'll show mercy. What is holy about torturing someone forever? Isn't that just what satan would do?

Apparently, you can not handle that reality. You fear for Satan it seems.

Are you sure you're not harbouring hardness of heart? God wills that all will be saved from the ravages of sin.

 

[GenemZ]

What is holy about torturing someone forever? Isn't that just what satan would do?

That's the point you are missing. You keep thinking that Satan is just like you given a raw deal.

God is realistic and knows what he is dealing with. That is why He will not be moved by your naïve desires. Dangerously naïve at that.


However, as it is written:

“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”—
the things God has prepared for those who love him."

1 Cor 2:9


God will love to promote all believers in eternity to levels of undreamable power and ability. Unimaginable to us at this time. If God promoted Satan and all evil persons in like manner, like you would desire to see? It would be you who would be in everlasting torments.

Sadism is real. Murder lust is too.. You can not accept that it is desirable to some. Can you identify with a man who loves to sodomize other men? Is he just like you? No. You keep thinking everyone is just like yourself... They are not like you. God must quarantine them as a means to protect you in eternity from misery caused by those who have a perverse love for what is evil ....

 

[Shrewd Manager]

That's the point you are missing. You keep thinking that Satan is just like you given a raw deal.

God is realistic and knows what he is dealing with. That is why He will not be moved by your naïve desires. Dangerously naïve at that.

Am I naive, or do you lack faith in the power of God? Lord help our unbelief, just say the word and it will be done.

You think satan can fool Jesus by false conversion? Satan the 'marrano' eh?

No, Christ's victory differs from Caesar's, because Christ truly converts his enemies. The devil only forces them to their knees, or at best cons them. And I happen to believe satan cannot triumph over Jesus by successfully resisting God's love indefinitely.

God will love to promote all believers in eternity to levels of undreamable power and ability. Unimaginable to us at this time. If God promoted Satan and all evil persons in like manner, like you would desire to see? It would be you who would be in everlasting torments.

Sadism is real. Murder lust is too.. You can not accept that it is desirable to some. Can you identify with a man who loves to sodomize other men? Is he just like you? No. You keep thinking everyone is just like yourself... They are not like you. God must quarantine them as a means to protect you in eternity from misery caused by those who have a perverse love for what is evil ....

All of this is a profound misunderstanding of the work of Christ, which is to free the slaves, heal the sick, raise the dead etc. I don't see 'abandon and torture the sinners' listed in his mission statement, quite the opposite. Torturing the pre-tortured soul forever would be the worst kind of sadism, would it not?

 

[JacksBratt]

Repent means a change in one's thinking. Living with the delusion that bank robbery is a noble thing to do, requires repentance.

Lusting for the bank teller, requires confession.

No sin is different than another at this point.

You are either embarrassed and humbly confessing as a guilty party, whether lust, sloth, lying, thievery, murder... whatever... There must be a recognition and acceptance of a sin committed, followed by a confession of that sin, and finally admitting it was wrong and repenting.

You could, alternatively, recognize the sin and accept and admit that you committed that sin... and not give a rip.

You could also confess and just go out and do it over and over knowing that you will be forgiven again.

It is the confession with repentance that is a two prong deal... The repentance does not need to have a time period.. It can be instant.. as in a death bed confession.

You cannot have one without the other.