AGBIA [All God's Blessings in the Atonement]

[franky67]

Colossians 1:19

"For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fulness to dwell in Him."

 

[JimB]

While I may agree that God’s blessings are provided for us because of Christ’s atonement for sin, I am wondering exactly how you think Colossians 1.19 teaches that?

~Jim

Cremate disappointments; don’t embalm them.​

 

[JimfromOhio]

The whole fullness (Gk. pleroma) of God dwells bodily. The Greek word for "dwells" is okv (oike), which means "I inhabit." "If Christ is in us, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness" (Romans 8:10).

God reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. He has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God (Eph. 2:17-18).

Nothing about healing the physical body.

 

[franky67]

While I may agree that God’s blessings are provided for us because of Christ’s atonement for sin, I am wondering exactly how you think Colossians 1.19 teaches that?

~Jim

Cremate disappointments; don’t embalm them.​

Sorry about derailing the other thread, I kinda forgot the original post,.

Ok, 1:19 says God has poured out Himself in to Jesus, so everything from God to man is through Jesus, verse 2:9 SAYS THE SAME THING.

I HAVE BELIEVED HEALING TO BE INCLUDED IN THE WORK OF THE CROSS FOR A LONG TIME, BUT JUST IN THE PAST FEW MONTHS, I HAVE BEGUN TO SEE THAT EVERY BLESSING IS SECURED BY JESUS.

Phil 4:19 says "My God shall supply all your needs according to His riches in Glory. " He could of left off the "in Christ Jesus" but He didn't, the "in Christ Jesus" says God provides all our needs through Christ.

I have more, but this is really opening up a revelation for me.

 

[franky67]

The whole fullness (Gk. pleroma) of God dwells bodily. The Greek word for "dwells" is okv (oike), which means "I inhabit." "If Christ is in us, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness" (Romans 8:10).

God reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. He has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God (Eph. 2:17-18).

Nothing about healing the physical body.

Congrats Grampa Jim,

Not healing specifically, but everything from God to man is through Jesus, and if through Jesus, then through the cross.

Jesus satisfied every requirement of the Law, we are blameless in Christ. and heirs of all of God's blessings, none excluded. see Gal. 3:29

All was satisfied, it is finished, complete, nothing lacking.

John 1:16

"For of His fulness, we have all received, and grace upon grace.

It's all in His Kingdom, that's why Jesus sent the Apostles out and told them to preach "The Kingdom o Heaven is at hand" and heal the sick, raise the dead, clense the lepers, cast out demons, freely you have received, freely give. All that is part of the kingdom of heaven.

Thy kingdom come, on earth as it is in heaven.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Congrats Grampa Jim,

Not healing specifically, but everything from God to man is through Jesus, and if through Jesus, then through the cross.

Jesus satisfied every requirement of the Law, we are blameless in Christ. and heirs of all of God's blessings, none excluded. see Gal. 3:29

All was satisfied, it is finished, complete, nothing lacking.

John 1:16

"For of His fulness, we have all received, and grace upon grace.

It's all in His Kingdom, that's why Jesus sent the Apostles out and told them to preach "The Kingdom o Heaven is at hand" and heal the sick, raise the dead, clense the lepers, cast out demons, freely you have received, freely give. All that is part of the kingdom of heaven.

Thy kingdom come, on earth as it is in heaven.

Thanks.

When Jesus said was, "...It is finished..." (Jn. 19:30). He meant it, not only in terms of His own deed, but in terms of securing the fullness of salvation by that deed. If physical healing is guaranteed, then all Christians who are in Christ are healed before physical death.

Jesus Christ’s redemptive work on the cross provided the basis for my salvation and the foundation for me to pursue a life that reflects Christ. I believe that the truth of God’s Word have already set me FREE from the bondage of sin. (John 8:32). The promise, and God's Grace, is still ready and available for any and all to receive -- by faith -- and even if the condition of life contradict the promise, we are still called to proclaim -- by faith -- that we are healed spiritually as Christ is in US in Spirit. Faith is not mandatory for healing, it is for salvation. We can't be saved without faith and with regard to salvation, we are touched and cleansed from SINS when we came to Christ in faith, only in terms of the disease of sin which is worse than the diseases.

 

[knownbeforetime]

When Jesus said was, "...It is finished..." (Jn. 19:30). He meant it, not only in terms of His own deed, but in terms of securing the fullness of salvation by that deed. If physical healing is guaranteed, then all Christians who are in Christ are healed before physical death.

You could also easily say, "If salvation is garuanteed, then all Christians are sanctified before physical death."

I believe that salvation, along with healing*, is garuanteed in the atonement. Whether we accept both and/or see both in this life is another story. However, we will definitely see both in Heaven.

*Is there really a difference? It seems strange that people would try to separate these things.

 

[DiscipleWhomJesusLoves]

Why would one need salvation or healing when one is in heaven? Are there sick people or sinners in heaven?

 

[ShammahBenJudah]

Colossians 1:19

"For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fulness to dwell in Him."

Sorry about derailing the other thread, I kinda forgot the original post,.

Ok, 1:19 says God has poured out Himself in to Jesus, so everything from God to man is through Jesus, verse 2:9 SAYS THE SAME THING.

I HAVE BELIEVED HEALING TO BE INCLUDED IN THE WORK OF THE CROSS FOR A LONG TIME, BUT JUST IN THE PAST FEW MONTHS, I HAVE BEGUN TO SEE THAT EVERY BLESSING IS SECURED BY JESUS.

Phil 4:19 says "My God shall supply all your needs according to His riches in Glory. " He could of left off the "in Christ Jesus" but He didn't, the "in Christ Jesus" says God provides all our needs through Christ.

I have more, but this is really opening up a revelation for me.

Congrats Grampa Jim,

Not healing specifically, but everything from God to man is through Jesus, and if through Jesus, then through the cross.

Jesus satisfied every requirement of the Law, we are blameless in Christ. and heirs of all of God's blessings, none excluded. see Gal. 3:29

All was satisfied, it is finished, complete, nothing lacking.

John 1:16

"For of His fulness, we have all received, and grace upon grace.

It's all in His Kingdom, that's why Jesus sent the Apostles out and told them to preach "The Kingdom o Heaven is at hand" and heal the sick, raise the dead, clense the lepers, cast out demons, freely you have received, freely give. All that is part of the kingdom of heaven.

Thy kingdom come, on earth as it is in heaven.

.
I don't adhere to the PHIA position doctrinally. But if we read through Isaiah 53, Jesus took ALL of our problems and needs upon Himself. The simplicity of working this out for us is to cast ALL of our problems and needs onto Him. If He's got the weight of the world on His shoulders, why should I try to carry it myself?

I've kinda been seeing some revelation in this area, too. But its like a reverse revelation, not opening up new things, but revealing the sheer smplicity of it all.

When it comes to inheriting the Kingdom, I've always seen that as a fulfillment of the covenant His atonement offers to "cut" with us. When we walk IN that covenant, essentially we are walking IN Christ....as opposed to walking IN the flesh. That way, the promises of the covenant are maximized in our lives.

 

[GodsGlory]

If people would quit looking at God ONLY as some arbitrary, disinterested, dispassionate, Referee-Judge [who dispenses blessings when His sovereignty puts him in the mood for it], and rather start realizing He is a loving and wonderful Father, then half this debate about blessings would just evaporate.

You fathers in here - what is it that your children want that you are unwilling to give them? If your child was sick, and you had the power to heal them, would you?

God is not sitting up in heaven going, "Wow, hmm, let me see ... would it be theologically good to make that person healthy? Or should I try to just keep them sick so people will be unsure of what my will is? Sick ... or healed ... Healed ... or sick? Wow, that's a tough one, Jesus. Got any ideas?? Tell you what ... even though I revealed myself through you and your earthly ministry, even though when they saw you, they saw the Father, let's keep our children sick for a while and never reveal what we're doing, so they'll be in the dark as to Our will, how's that for a doozie, huh Jesus?"

God's a Father - period.

And if you had the power to heal your children, you would, too.

It's not a matter of "heal this one, but not that one".

You who are fathers ... Do you say "hey honey, let's take Timmy to the doctor, but let Susan rot till she dies, so I can make her a better daughter to me, so she can learn her place, so she can be humble" ??

Is God truly more concerned about what you LEARN than he is about your well-being?

God is no respecter of persons, and if Jesus healed everyone who asked for healing, and if the promise says "ask and ye shall receive" and if it says "I am the Lord God, I change not" and if it says "the son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them", then the Bible is good enough for me.

"Well, what about blind Bartimaeus? and what about Lazarus?"

Well, I don't know what Bible YOU read, but the one I read says that Jesus healed Bartimaeus, and raised Lazarus from the dead. But if you want to focus on THEIR sickness instead of GOD'S healing, that interpretation is yours to choose.

 

[JimB]

If people would quit looking at God ONLY as some arbitrary, disinterested, dispassionate, Referee-Judge [who dispenses blessings when His sovereignty puts him in the mood for it], and rather start realizing He is a loving and wonderful Father, then half this debate about blessings would just evaporate.

You fathers in here - what is it that your children want that you are unwilling to give them? If your child was sick, and you had the power to heal them, would you?

God is not sitting up in heaven going, "Wow, hmm, let me see ... would it be theologically good to make that person healthy? Or should I try to just keep them sick so people will be unsure of what my will is? Sick ... or healed ... Healed ... or sick? Wow, that's a tough one, Jesus. Got any ideas?? Tell you what ... even though I revealed myself through you and your earthly ministry, even though when they saw you, they saw the Father, let's keep our children sick for a while and never reveal what we're doing, so they'll be in the dark as to Our will, how's that for a doozie, huh Jesus?"

God's a Father - period.

And if you had the power to heal your children, you would, too.

It's not a matter of "heal this one, but not that one".

You who are fathers ... Do you say "hey honey, let's take Timmy to the doctor, but let Susan rot till she dies, so I can make her a better daughter to me, so she can learn her place, so she can be humble" ??

Is God truly more concerned about what you LEARN than he is about your well-being?

God is no respecter of persons, and if Jesus healed everyone who asked for healing, and if the promise says "ask and ye shall receive" and if it says "I am the Lord God, I change not" and if it says "the son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them", then the Bible is good enough for me.

"Well, what about blind Bartimaeus? and what about Lazarus?"

Well, I don't know what Bible YOU read, but the one I read says that Jesus healed Bartimaeus, and raised Lazarus from the dead. But if you want to focus on THEIR sickness instead of GOD'S healing, that interpretation is yours to choose.

This tired old argument lost it’s punch years ago. You need to come up with a better one. The difference between comparing God as Father to humans as fathers is that God is an, um, PERFECT father.

If God was as afraid of illness as we are, then He might behave differently than He does. But God could snap His finger and remove all illness from the human condition in an instant, permanently, if it was a frightening to Him as it is to us. But He doesn’t. If your argument is to hold water, tell me why He doesn't? If God’s compassion extended no further than our immediate temporary physical comfort, then physical health would be at the top of His agenda just like it is ours. But there are other things more important to God that He is trying to do for us than simply cater to our immediate comfort.

God has deeper things, “eternal” things, He wants to do with and in us than just what is good for our “temporary” bodies. Didn’t he clearly say so? …

16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man [i.e, our physical body] is perishing, yet the inward man [i.e., our spirit] is being renewed day by day. 17 For our light [physical] affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, 18 while we do not look at the things which are seen [the physical world], but at the things which are not seen [spiritual things, God’s plans]. For the things which are seen [[physical thing, like our bodies] are temporary, but the things which are not seen [God’s plans] are eternal. (2 Cor. 4)
​

So, “is God more concerned about what we LEARN than about our physical well-being”? Of course He is, if what we learn is of eternal, spiritual significance.

~Jim

Cremate disappointments; don’t embalm them.​

 

[knownbeforetime]

Why would one need salvation or healing when one is in heaven? Are there sick people or sinners in heaven?

I was saying that while we are saved on Earth, we don't see the fullness of it until we are in Heaven. We might stop smoking, looking at porn, etc. but we won't be totally free until we're in Heaven. It's the same with healing. We recieve healing for this and that here on Earth, but it won't be until we get to Heaven that we get our glorified bodies that never get sick and never wear out.

I had a thought the other day. A lot of us don't blink when someone says they are saved at the same time that they are dealing with destructive habits. It seems pretty contradictory really. But, is it any different when a WoFer says, "I am healed in Jesus' Name." when they are bedridden. Why is it okay to say, "I am saved," but not, "I am healed," when the physical evidence contradicts the statement.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Why would one need salvation or healing when one is in heaven? Are there sick people or sinners in heaven?

God's will is for our redemption, adoption and the obtaining of our eternal inheritance in the heavenly blessings (Ephesians 3:10,11). God's gifts are many; His best gift is one which is the gift of Himself. Above all gifts, God desires most to give Himself to His people so that we can have eternal life instead of eternal death.

God's New Covenant is eternal because Christ is the mediator of the covenant, that we receive the promised eternal inheritance. The true basic theology is that God does not guarantee physical healing for all believers, at least not in this life, all believers will eventually be healed of all physical aliments as well as spiritual aliments. There are many Christians have died without being healed and now are healed in heaven.

 

[franky67]

God's will is for our redemption, adoption and the obtaining of our eternal inheritance in the heavenly blessings (Ephesians 3:10,11). God's gifts are many; His best gift is one which is the gift of Himself. Above all gifts, God desires most to give Himself to His people so that we can have eternal life instead of eternal death.

God's New Covenant is eternal because Christ is the mediator of the covenant, that we receive the promised eternal inheritance. The true basic theology is that God does not guarantee physical healing for all believers, at least not in this life, all believers will eventually be healed of all physical aliments as well as spiritual aliments. There are many Christians have died without being healed and now are healed in heaven.

Jim, If we study Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the theme of Jesus is "REPENT, FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND" in the other gospels, it's called "The kingdom of God" which is the same thing.

After Jesus preached saying the kingdom of Heaven is at hand, He then proceeded to demonstrate what this kingdom was like, He did this by the numerous miracles throughout the four Gospels.

The model prayer Jesus gave, said in part, My Kingdom come, My will be done, ON EARTH, as it is in heaven.
God's will is for the Kingdom to be here.


The Kingdom, and the covenant are for Now, when one accepts Christ, the blessings are available immediately, and not saved until some future time in heaven.

 

[franky67]

AGBIA = All God's Blessings are in the Atonement of Christ.

For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, Col 1:19
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, Col 2:9
And my God will supply all your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.
Phil 4:19
For the Son of God, Christ Jesus, who was preached among you by us--by me and Silvanus and Timothy--was not yes and no, but is yes in Him.
For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes; therefore also through Him is our Amen to the glory of God through us. 2 Cor. 1:19, 20

 

[JimfromOhio]

Jim, If we study Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the theme of Jesus is "REPENT, FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND" in the other gospels, it's called "The kingdom of God" which is the same thing.

After Jesus preached saying the kingdom of Heaven is at hand, He then proceeded to demonstrate what this kingdom was like, He did this by the numerous miracles throughout the four Gospels.

The model prayer Jesus gave, said in part, My Kingdom come, My will be done, ON EARTH, as it is in heaven.
God's will is for the Kingdom to be here.


The Kingdom, and the covenant are for Now, when one accepts Christ, the blessings are available immediately, and not saved until some future time in heaven.

All miracles including healing are true and still happening but keep in mind that the purpose of the miracles and healings were not to keep the Christians healthy, it was a sign to unbelievers to hear the gospel of the Kingdom. If Jesus came to bring His Kingdom to earth as it is in heaven, Christ would have returned and the earth would be like heaven. Christ's Second Coming has to be postponed to a future time. Christ came and said, "Repent; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Mt. 4:17). The message of John the Baptist and the Apostles was the same (Mt. 3:2; 10:7). They preached that the Kingdom of God was at hand. But the people rejected the King and His Kingdom; therefore, the Kingdom was postponed. God will keep His promise. Everyone will be healed. It is the will of the one with the gift that makes it operational. That is why Romans 12:6-8 says that if you have the gift of giving, give; if you have the gift of prophecy, prophesy; if you have the gift of showing mercy, do it......." Any time there is a command to use your gift, there is the assumption that you have the will to control it. This is true of the gift of healing like every other gifts.

We are to love God and serve Him because He is God, not because of the gracious things He does for us or for the rewards He promises us. If we believe God and honor His Word, if we walk by faith in love and obedience, there will be eternal rewards for each of us in that great coming day. Just like great faiths listed in Hebrews 11, These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. (Hebews 11:39).

There are many Christians have died without being healed otherwise they would have been healed as it is in heaven. After they died, they became fully healed as God promised.

 

[JimfromOhio]

AGBIA = All God's Blessings are in the Atonement of Christ.

For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, Col 1:19
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, Col 2:9
And my God will supply all your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.
Phil 4:19
For the Son of God, Christ Jesus, who was preached among you by us--by me and Silvanus and Timothy--was not yes and no, but is yes in Him.
For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes; therefore also through Him is our Amen to the glory of God through us. 2 Cor. 1:19, 20

Spiritually, God can provide happiness when we have Jesus Christ in our hearts and only Jesus Christ can give us true happiness. In Christ we have all the power we will ever need. God's promise is great, but it is as great as we experience spiritual growth from God's perspectives by cultivating the knowledge of God while at the same time cultivate our faith. As we are training for our spiritual growth, we look NOT AT our faith but in Christ of WHO we have faith in, who is THE author and finisher.

I have learned to be careful how I read and need to look from doctrinal perspective rather than each of our own satisfaction especially when it comes to healing. I do not want to read watered down gospel doctrines because it is false gospel and doctrinally wrong. I am NEVER comfortable telling people about such doctrines and I don't want to be responsible for decieving another person when I share the good news. A good witness isn't like a salesperson selling "healing" simply because salesperson focuses on the products (healing) rather than the true source which is spiritual salvation.

 

[irenemcg]

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.(KJV)

Greek
σωτηρία
sōtēria
so-tay-ree'-ah
Feminine of a derivative of G4990 as (properly abstract) noun; rescue or safety (physically or morally): - deliver, health, salvation, save, saving.

The Greek word "salvation" gives us deliverance, safety, preservation, healing and soundness. So I am not ashamed of the gospel of the Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation, safety, healing, preservation, and soundness.

Psa 35:9 And my soul shall be joyful in the LORD: it shall rejoice in his salvation. (KJV)

Hebrew
ישׁוּעה
yeshû‛âh
yesh-oo'-aw
Feminine passive participle of H3467; something saved, that is, (abstractly) deliverance; hence aid, victory, prosperity: - deliverance, health, help (-ing), salvation, save, saving (health), welfare.

The Hebrew word above too shows that the word means salvation of the whole person.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.(KJV)

Greek
σωτηρία
sōtēria
so-tay-ree'-ah
Feminine of a derivative of G4990 as (properly abstract) noun; rescue or safety (physically or morally): - deliver, health, salvation, save, saving.

The Greek word "salvation" gives us deliverance, safety, preservation, healing and soundness. So I am not ashamed of the gospel of the Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation, safety, healing, preservation, and soundness.

Psa 35:9 And my soul shall be joyful in the LORD: it shall rejoice in his salvation. (KJV)

Hebrew
ישׁוּעה
yeshû‛âh
yesh-oo'-aw
Feminine passive participle of H3467; something saved, that is, (abstractly) deliverance; hence aid, victory, prosperity: - deliverance, health, help (-ing), salvation, save, saving (health), welfare.

The Hebrew word above too shows that the word means salvation of the whole person.

Yes... "whole person" however, the key is "when", today, tomorrow or after death; We all will be healed. Spiritually, we are healed and saved. Physically, we will be healed whenever God decides. The Greek word soteria is the word for salvation which means "well-being" or "escape." There is a sense in which physical healing took place in the atoning work of Christ. But that healing waits to be realized in the future. The healing of the atonement will bring about our resurrection in glory, where there will be no pain or suffering (Rev. 21:1-4; 22:1-3).

 

[GodsGlory]

This tired old argument lost it’s punch years ago. You need to come up with a better one.

It's good to know you think that the argument "God wants to do the same for everyone" is a tired old argument.