I don't get that response regarding those who feel absolutely no conviction or remorse over sin. Perhaps you thought I was directing that statement at you, when instead I was speaking of those you were talking about.
I appreciate the clarity on this. I usually get attacked when others do not agree. So, thank you for being nice.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:21-25
Eight Reasons Why Paul Recounted His Past Life as a Pharisee in Romans 7:14-24:
There are 8 reasons in Scripture that show us that Paul is indeed talking as a Pharisee (recounting his past experience), and he is not talking in the present tense as a Christian in Romans 7:14-24. Oh, and Paul was speaking in the "Historical Present." Historical Present uses a verb phrase in the present tense to refer to an event that occurred in the past (
Source).
#1. In Romans 7:6, Paul says we should serve in "newness of the spirit" and not the oldness of the letter (Which is the Old Law and not the New Testament Scriptures that were still being formed). We are told to SERVE. How do we serve? Do we just do our own thing? No. We follow God's commands in the New Testament. This talk of the Old Law is the context of verses 14-24.
#2. We are dead to the Law by the body of Jesus Christ (Romans 7:4). Would this be the Old Law or ALL law? 1 John 3:23 is a commandment that says we are to "believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ." This is a New Covenant Law. So obviously, we are not dead to this Law or Command. The Scriptures also say, "but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent." (Acts 17:30). Are we dead to this Law? Surely not. Jesus said "repent or perish." (Luke 13:3). Peter told Simon to repent (by way of prayer to God) of his wickedness of trying to pay for the gifts of the Holy Spirit so that he may be forgiven (Acts 8:22). Sin is merely a transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). All this lets us know that men of God can break God's laws, they can be separated from GOD because of it. So surely some Law of God is still in effect and has dire consequences for any person's soul who commits them. Jesus said that if we do not forgive, the Father will not forgive us (Matthew 6:15). If Jesus referred to unbelievers, this would not make any sense. They would first need to accept Christ. So, the only logical conclusion is that Jesus is talking to believers in Matthew 6:15. You do not forgive (i.e., you sin or break this law of God), and you will not be forgiven or saved. 1 John 3:15 says if you hate your brother, you are like a murderer, and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. Again, you hate your brother (which can be a one-time act), and you do not have eternal life. It's that simple. Also, Paul condemns circumcision several times. Galatians 5:2 is the biggest verse that condemns circumcision salvationism. Circumcision is an Old Covenant Law, and it is not a New Covenant Law. Paul uses the word "law" when he speaks against circumcision. So we have to conclude that Paul is saying we are dead to the Old Covenant Law and not all Law. So again, this talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.
#3. Paul says, "For without the law sin was dead." (Romans 7:8). He also says, "I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died." (Romans 7:9). This type of saying is nonsensical from a present tense reading as an adult Christian. The only way this sort of works is if Paul refers to himself as a baby with no knowledge of God's laws yet. But there are two problems with even that interpretation. One, this view does not seem as consistent with the phrase, "For without the law sin was dead" because even though Paul as a baby did not have any knowledge of the Law yet, the rest of the adult world would have the Law and sin would still be alive to them. Second, Paul says, "And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me." (Romans 7:10-11). Okay, so if Paul grew up and became aware of the Law one day, how could the commandment be ordained to life at this point in his life? The commandment was ordained for life back in the time of the Law of Moses. Also, Paul found that "the commandment" was death unto him and that it slew him. There are no death penalties attached to the commands given to us under the New Testament. Death penalties are only associated with the Laws given to us in the Old Covenant. This is how the Law slew him. For breaking the Old Law could be a loss of his own physical life. So this is talking about the Old Law (and not all Law). So again, this talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.
#4. Paul says, "But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful." (Romans 7:13). Okay. Let's break this down. Paul says, "But sin, that it MIGHT APPEAR SIN, works death in me." (Romans 7:13). Now, how can sin make it appear like it may not be "sin"? Well, if Jesus was raised and Saul (Paul) was still a Pharisee striving to obey the Old Law when the New Covenant Law was still in effect, the sin that Saul (Paul) was struggling with as a Pharisee during that time would not really technically be sin in every case. If Paul disobeyed certain Old Covenant laws while the New Covenant and its laws were in effect, then Saul (Paul) would not really break any real commandments from God in every case. Hence, why Paul said, "...sin, that it MIGHT APPEAR (as) SIN." (Romans 7:13). The beginning of verse 13 is a foreshadowing of what is to come in verses 14-24. Paul is stepping out for a brief moment, speaking as an Israelite living throughout history, to speak of his condition as a Pharisee when he says, "...sin, that it might appear sin." In the second half of verse 13, Paul says that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful." (Romans 7:13). This is saying that when God provided the written Law of Moses to his people, there would be double accountability for keeping God's laws because they are written for all to see now. So, an Old Testament saint would feel exceedingly sinful or guilty for breaking God's law back in the Old Testament times because he had in his possession a written down visual law clearly telling him what is right and wrong. So again, Paul is referring to the Old Law here and not all laws (like the Laws of Christ). This talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.
#5. Paul says in Romans 7:14 that he is carnal and is sold under sin, And yet in Romans 8:2, Paul says he is free from sin. So unless Paul is contradicting himself, he is talking from two different perspectives.
#6. In Romans 7:25, Paul asks the question: "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" Asking this kind of question as a Christian does not seem consistent with Paul's following statement if he is already delivered through Jesus Christ as a Christian. If Jesus delivers a believer and is thankful for that fact, there would be no cry to ask any question that says, "Who shall deliver me from this body of death?"
#7. Here is the final nail in the coffin for this argument. Romans 8:3-4 says,
3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:3-4).
So which Law did God send His Son for so as to condemn sin in the flesh?
It was the Old Covenant Law.
When Jesus died on the cross, the temple veil was ripped from top to bottom, letting us know that the Old Testament laws were no longer valid because the Old Laws on the animal sacrifices and the priesthood were no longer acceptable.
Jesus Christ was now our Passover Lamb.
Jesus Christ was soon to be our Heavenly High Priest (after He ascended to His Father after His resurrection three days later) so He could be our mediator between God the Father and man.
Romans 8:4 says, "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
This is saying that the righteous part or aspect of the Old Law can be fulfilled in us.
Paul says elsewhere,
8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."
(Romans 13:8-10).
So loving your neighbor is the righteousness of the Old Law!
We fulfill this law by walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh (i.e., sin).
So, we see a consistent theme here. The word "law" used in general (with no actual description attached to it) refers to the Old Law in Romans 7 and 8. This helps us understand that Paul is telling us his past experience or life as a Pharisee struggling to keep the Old Law unsuccessfully because he did not have Jesus Christ yet (verses 14-24).
#8. In addition, in Romans 8:2, we see the mention of how there are TWO laws. We also learn from this verse that keeping one of these Laws helps us to be set FREE from the other one.
In Romans 8:2, we see:
Law #1. - Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.
This is a New Covenant Law that we are still under. What is this Law?
It is fulfilling the righteousness of the Law (i.e., to love your neighbor - Romans 13:8-10) by walking after the Spirit (See Romans 8:3-4).
Law #2. Sin and Death.
This is in reference to the Old Covenant Law as a whole (i.e., the 613 Old Testament Commands within the Torah). It is called the Law of Sin and Death because not obeying it could result in physical death.
What is the relationship of these two laws in Romans 8:2?
Keeping the New Law helps us to be free of the Old Law. For there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who WALK not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1).
Source used for a small paragraph within this post:
Paul is not Talking about Himself: Why I take the "pre-Christian" Reading of Romans 7:14-25
