Sanctification: Entire, or Ongoing?

Kokavkrystallos

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If you were to ask which doctrine I believe, I'm honestly between the two! I see the points of both in scripture. I believe sanctification MUST be taught, and truly without holiness no one shall see the LORD. The question remains whether we can attain entire sanctification as a perpetual ongoing thing. I think there are moments of it, maybe even a day of it, where in my experience I must pray Psalm 139 and ask the Lord to search me and see if there is any wicked in me. But to maintain that day by day ongoing I have yet to experience.

This is from Dougan Clark (1828-1896), Quaker: Professor of Systematic Theology and Church History in Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana, The Theology of Holiness:

"It is a lamentable fact that there is a large class of Christians to whom the subject of entire sanctification is a matter of indifference. They hope, with or without sufficient reason, that their sins are forgiven. They propose to live moral and useful lives, and trust, again with or without sufficient reason, that they will go to heaven when they die. The subject of holiness does not interest them. They suppose themselves to be doing well enough without it.

There are others claiming to be Christians, to whom the subject is even positively distasteful. It is an offence to them. They do not want to hear it preached. They regard those who claim it as cranks. They look upon holiness meetings as being hotbeds of delusion and spiritual pride. They turn away from the whole subject not only with indifference, but with disdain.

There are still others, and these God’s children, as we may charitably believe, who do not even regard holiness as a desirable thing. They assert that it is needful and salutary to retain some sin in the heart as long as we live, in order to keep us humble. It is true that they are never able to tell how much sin it takes to have this beneficial effect, but a certain amount they are bent on having.

Another class takes the opposite view. They regard holiness as very desirable, and a very lovely thing to gaze upon and think upon, but they also regard it as quite impossible of attainment. They hope to grow towards it all the days of their lives, and to get it at the moment of death. Not sooner than the dying hour, do they believe any human being can be made holy. Not till death is separating the soul from the body can even God Himself separate sin from the soul. The whole doctrine of entire sanctification, therefore, they regard as a beautiful theory, but wholly impossible as an experience, and wholly impracticable as a life.

In general terms, we may say that carnal Christians, as described by Paul in I. Corinthians 3:1-4, are opposed to the doctrine of entire sanctification. “The carnal mind is enmity against God,” and the carnal mind is irreconcilably opposed to holiness. This opposition may take one of the forms already described, or, possibly, some other forms which have been overlooked, but the root of the hostility is the same in all. Wherever “our old man” has his home in a Christian’s heart, there entire sanctification will be rejected.

But we must not forget that there are many exceptions. There are thousands of sincere, believing hearts in all Christian denominations, in whom inbred sin still exists, but not with the consent of the will. They are tired—very tired of the tyrant that rules them, or of the ceaseless struggles by which, with God’s added and assisting grace, they are enabled to keep him under. They long for deliverance. They are hungering for full salvation, and rejoice to hear the message of entire sanctification through the baptism with the Holy Ghost and fire. The Lord bless all these hungering multitudes, and give them the desire of their hearts by saving them to the uttermost, and may their numbers be vastly increased, so that the banner of Christ’s church may everywhere be unfurled—the banner on which is inscribed the glorious motto of Holiness to the Lord.

Now we meet all objections to the doctrine of entire sanctification— whether in the form of indifference, or dislike, or undesirableness, or impossibility—with the simple proposition, It is necessary. If this proposition can be established, all objections, of whatever character, must fall to the ground, and the eager cry of every Christian heart must be, How can I obtain that priceless blessing which is essential to my eternal bliss, which is indispensable, and without which I shall never see the Lord?

For this is the language of the Holy Ghost in Heb. 12:14, “Follow peace with all men, and holiness without which no man shall see the Lord,” and in the Revised Version, “Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man shall see the Lord.” This can mean nothing short of entire sanctification, or the removal of inbred sin. And, surely, it is hardly necessary to argue the question as to the indispensableness of this blessed experience, in order to gain an entrance into heaven. Everyone will admit that God Himself is a perfectly and absolutely holy Being, and He has ever told His followers in all ages, “Be ye holy for I am holy"—making His own perfect and entire holiness the sufficient reason for requiring the same quality in His people. And, although the holiness of the highest created being will always fall infinitely short of that of the Infinite God, as regards quantity, it will be the same in quality, for Jesus tells us, “Be ye perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect,” not, of course, with the unmeasurable amount of perfection which appertains to Him, but with the same kind of perfection so far as it goes. And again in Rev. 21:27, we are told that “There shall in no wise enter into it” (the heavenly city) “anything that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination or maketh a lie.” Heaven is a holy place, and occupied with none but holy inhabitants."

This is from R.A. Torrey, Congregational, in his 1918 book "The Fundamental Doctrines of the Christian Faith" chapter 11, Sanctification

"I. WHAT SANCTIFICATION IS
First, then, let us consider what Sanctification is.

1. In the first place let me make it clear that, Sanctification is not the "Baptism with the Holy Spirit." The two are constantly confused. There is an intimate relation between the two, but they are not at all one and the same thing; and only confusion and misconception can arise from confounding two experiences which God keeps separate. That Sanctification is not the baptism with the Holy Spirit and that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is not Sanctification, will become clear as we proceed and find out from a study of the Bible just what Sanctification is.

2. In the second place, let me say that Sanctification is not the eradication of the carnal nature. [227]We will see this when we come to examine God's definition of Sanctification; for God has very clearly defined what Sanctification is and when it takes place. Those who teach "the eradication of the carnal nature" are grasping after a great and precious truth, but they have expressed that truth in a very inaccurate, unfortunate, and unscriptural way, and this way of stating it leads to grave misapprehensions and errors and abuses. The whole controversy about "the eradication of the carnal nature" arises from a misapprehension and from using terms for which there is no warrant in the Bible. The Bible nowhere speaks about "the carnal nature," and so certainly not about "the eradication of the carnal nature." There is such a thing as a carnal nature, but it is not a material thing, not a substance, not a something that can be eradicated as you pull a tooth or remove the vermiform appendix. "A carnal nature" is a nature controlled by the flesh. Certainly it is a believer's privilege not to have his nature governed by the flesh. Our nature should be and may be under the control of the Holy Spirit, and then it is not a carnal nature; but one nature has not been eradicated and another nature put in its place, but our nature is taken out from under the control of the flesh and put under the control of the Holy Spirit. Furthermore, while it is our privilege to have our nature under the control of the Holy Spirit and delivered from the control of the flesh, we still [228]have "the flesh," and shall have the flesh as long as we are in this body. But if we "walk by the Spirit" we do not "fulfil the lusts of the flesh" (Gal. 5:16). The 8th chapter of Romans describes the life of victory, just as the 7th chapter, 9-24 verse describes the life of defeat, when men are "carnal, sold under sin," but it is in the 8th chapter where life "in the Spirit" is described (Rom. 8:9) that we are told that we still have the flesh, but that it is our privilege not to "live after the flesh," but "by the Spirit," to "put to death the deeds of the body." So we see that the body is there, but in the power of the Spirit we do, day by day and (if we live up to our privilege) every day and every hour and every minute, continuously "put to death the deeds of the body."

3. So much as to what Sanctification is not. We will see exactly what it is if we look at God's definition of Sanctification. We shall find that the word Sanctification is used in the Bible in a two-fold sense.

(1) The first meaning of Sanctification we will find in Lev. 8:10-12, "And Moses took the anointing oil, and anointed the tabernacle and all that was therein, and sanctified them. And he sprinkled thereof upon the altar seven times, and anointed the altar and all its vessels, and the laver and its base, to sanctify them. And he poured of the anointing oil upon Aaron's head and anointed him to sanctify him." Now it is perfectly clear in this passage that to sanctify means to separate or set [229]apart for God, and that Sanctification is the process of setting apart or state of being set apart for God. The word Sanctify is used in this sense over and over again. Another illustration is Lev. 27:14, 17. "And when a man shall sanctify his house to be holy unto God, then the priest shall estimate it, whether it be good or bad: as the priest shall estimate it, so shall it stand . . . and if a man shall sanctify unto Jehovah part of a field of his possession, then the estimation shall be according to the sowing thereof." Here again it is plain that to sanctify means to separate or set apart for God, and that Sanctification is the process of setting apart or state of being set apart for God. Still another illustration of this same use of the word sanctify is found in Num. 8:17, "For all the firstborn among the children of Israel are mine, both man and beast: on the day that I smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt I sanctified them for myself." This, of course, does not mean that God, at the time that He smote the firstborn in Egypt, eradicated the carnal nature from the first-born of Israel. It does mean that He set apart all the first-born to be peculiarly His own. Another very suggestive illustration of the same usage of the word is found in the case of Jeremiah as stated by himself in Jer. 1:4, 5, "Now the word of Jehovah came unto me saying, before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee: I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations." [230]This plainly means that before his birth God set Jeremiah apart for Himself. There would still be much imperfection and infirmity in him, but he was set apart for God. Another suggestive illustration of the same use of the word Sanctify is found in Matt. 23:27, in the words of our Lord Jesus Himself: "Ye fools and blind; for which is greater, the gold, or the temple that hath sanctified the gold?" But perhaps the most striking illustration of all is in what our Lord says about His own sanctification in John 17:19, "And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth." Here the plain meaning is that our Lord Jesus set Himself apart for this work for God and He did it in order that believers might be set apart for God "in truth," or "in the truth." This is the most frequent use of the word sanctify. There are numerous illustrations of it in the Bible. So to sanctify means to separate or set apart for God; and Sanctification is the process of setting apart or the state of being set apart for God. This is the primary meaning of the words.

(2) But the word as used in the Bible has also a secondary signification closely related to this primary meaning. An illustration of this secondary meaning will be found in II Chron. 29:5, "Hear me, ye Levites; now sanctify yourselves, and sanctify the house of Jehovah, the God of your fathers, and carry forth the filthiness out of the holy place." Bearing in mind the "parallelism" [231]which is the chief characteristic of Hebrew poetry, it is plain that to sanctify here is synonymous with the "Carry forth the filthiness out of the holy places" found in the last part of the verse. So to sanctify here means to separate from ceremonial or moral defilement, to cleanse; and Sanctification is the process of separating, or state of being separated from ceremonial or moral defilement. The same use of the word is found in Lev. 11:44, "For I am Jehovah thy God: sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that moveth upon the earth." Here again it is clear that "sanctify yourselves" is synonymous with "be ye holy" and is contrasted with "defile yourselves" and means to separate from ceremonial or moral defilement, to cleanse; and Sanctification is the process of separating or state of being separated from ceremonial or moral defilement. The same meaning of sanctification is found in the New Testament in I Thess. 5:23, "And the God of Peace, Himself sanctify you wholly and may your Spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." Here we see the close relation between entire sanctification and preserving wholly, without blame, and to sanctify here clearly means to separate from moral defilement, and sanctification here again is the process of separating or state of being separated from moral defilement. The same thing is evident [232]from the 4th chapter of this same epistle in the 7th verse (I Thess. 4:7), "For God called us not for uncleanness, but in sanctification." Our "Sanctification" is here set in direct contrast with "uncleanness," and hence it is evident that sanctification here means the state of being separated from all moral defilement. The same thing is evident from the 3rd verse of this same chapter, "For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye abstain from fornication." Here again it is evident that Sanctification means separation from impurity or moral defilement. The two meanings, then, of Sanctification are: the process of separating or setting apart, or state of being separated or set apart, for God; and the process of separating or state of being separated from ceremonial or moral defilement. These two meanings of the word are closely allied—one cannot be truly separated to God without being separated from sin."

"3. But we have not found the whole answer to the question of When Men are Sanctified, even yet. We find the remainder of the answer to the question in our text, 1 Thess. 5:23 accurately translated as it is in the Revised Version, "And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." Here we are plainly told that the complete sanctification of believers, complete in the fullest sense, is something to be sought for in prayer and that is to be accomplished by God in the future and perfected at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The same thought is found in this same book, the 3rd chapter and 12th and 13th verses, "And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you, to the end that he may establish your hearts unblamable in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus with his saints." It is "at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints" that He is to establish our hearts unblamable in holiness before our God and Father and that our spirit and soul and body are to be preserved entire without blame. The same thought is found in I John 3:2, "Beloved, now are we children of God, it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." It is not in the life that now is, and it is not at death, that we are entirely sanctified, spirit, soul, and body. It is at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is one of the many reasons why the well-instructed believer constantly cries, "Even so, come, Lord Jesus. Come quickly.""
 

d taylor

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Fairly simple part of the believer's life. Justification is by belief in Jesus only, but sanctification is by works of the believer after the person becomes a justified believer. Many justified believers fall way short of being sanctified in their life.
 
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AlexB23

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If you were to ask which doctrine I believe, I'm honestly between the two! I see the points of both in scripture. I believe sanctification MUST be taught, and truly without holiness no one shall see the LORD. The question remains whether we can attain entire sanctification as a perpetual ongoing thing. I think there are moments of it, maybe even a day of it, where in my experience I must pray Psalm 139 and ask the Lord to search me and see if there is any wicked in me. But to maintain that day by day ongoing I have yet to experience.
This is my take on sanctification being ongoing or a completed process. It is a little simpler, but it should work, but probably not as good as the two theologians such as Dougan Clark and R.A. Torrey).


The short answer is that sanctification is both a continual process and a completed work.

The long answer: The Bible teaches that sanctification, or the process of becoming holy and being set apart for God, is both a completed work in Christ and an ongoing process in the life of the believer.

On the one hand, when we place our faith in Jesus Christ, we are positionally sanctified or made holy before God. The Apostle Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 6:11, "And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." This is a past tense description of what happens when we believe in Christ.

On the other hand, sanctification is also an ongoing process or growth in holiness. The Apostle Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 3:18, "And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit." This is a present tense description of how we grow in holiness as we follow Christ.

So, the completed work of sanctification in Christ gives us the power and motivation to live a life of ongoing growth in holiness. The Apostle Paul writes in Philippians 2:12-13, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure."

Therefore, we can say that sanctification is both a completed work and an ongoing process in the life of the believer. The completed work of sanctification gives us the position and standing before God as holy, while the ongoing process allows us to grow in our obedience and likeness to Christ. By the way, all the verses are from the ESV version of the Bible.
 
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RandyPNW

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If you were to ask which doctrine I believe, I'm honestly between the two! I see the points of both in scripture. I believe sanctification MUST be taught, and truly without holiness no one shall see the LORD. The question remains whether we can attain entire sanctification as a perpetual ongoing thing. I think there are moments of it, maybe even a day of it, where in my experience I must pray Psalm 139 and ask the Lord to search me and see if there is any wicked in me. But to maintain that day by day ongoing I have yet to experience.
I'm not going to read the entire spiel--it's a bit too much time reflecting on what people fail to do on the subject of Sanctification. But I will tell you what I think. We are *never* perfect as long as we are in these present bodies--never!

That being said, we partake of the Divine nature, and so have access to Christ's perfection. You will notice I said "Christ's perfection," and not our own. We do, however, go through a maturing process, which includes habituating ourselves to doing right, if we are responsible and self-disciplined.

It was essential that Christ be perfect in order to obtain for us our salvation. It required not just his perfection, but more, his Deity. I say it required his perfection because with respect to our own works, they have been disqualified due to their contamination by sin. So an *imperfect man* cannot obtain Justification on his own. He *must* have Christ's help, as he applies his work to our work, redeeming us from the curse of sin.

We obtain Salvation by choosing to live and work in participation with the Divine Nature, in our choosing to live in partnership with Christ's redemptive operations. We do not redeem ourselves, but by the redemption we receive from Christ we are able to produce his good works.

Doing this does not require that we be perfect, but that we be willing to channel him in our lives on a regular basis. We choose Christ as our way, truth, and life. This brings Christ's righteousness into our lives, without having to be perfect.

Hopefully, we mature as we habituate ourselves in cooperating with Christ. We simply opt to obey his word in our lives on a regular basis, and so keep channels open for growth in our spiritual lives. We do not become "more perfect." But we become more developed, more expressive of Christ as the maturation process takes place.

The flesh we live in will always look ugly and will always be with us as long as we are in these sin-contaminated bodies. We simply have to mitigate and overcome the effects of sin the best we can.
 
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AlexB23

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I'm not going to read the entire spiel--it's a bit too much time reflecting on what people fail to do on the subject of Sanctification. But I will tell you what I think. We are *never* perfect as long as we are in these present bodies--never!

That being said, we partake of the Divine nature, and so have access to Christ's perfection. You will notice I said "Christ's perfection," and not our own. We do, however, go through a maturing process, which includes habituating ourselves to doing right, if we are responsible and self-disciplined.

It was essential that Christ be perfect in order to obtain for us our salvation. It required not just his perfection, but more, his Deity. I say it required his perfection because with respect to our own works, they have been disqualified due to their contamination by sin. So an *imperfect man* cannot obtain Justification on his own. He *must* have Christ's help, as he applies his work to our work, redeeming us from the curse of sin.

We obtain Salvation by choosing to live and work in participation with the Divine Nature, in our choosing to live in partnership with Christ's redemptive operations. We do not redeem ourselves, but by the redemption we receive from Christ we are able to produce his good works.

Doing this does not require that we be perfect, but that we be willing to channel him in our lives on a regular basis. We choose Christ as our way, truth, and life. This brings Christ's righteousness into our lives, without having to be perfect.

Hopefully, we mature as we habituate ourselves in cooperating with Christ. We simply opt to obey his word in our lives on a regular basis, and so keep channels open for growth in our spiritual lives. We do not become "more perfect." But we become more developed, more expressive of Christ as the maturation process takes place.

The flesh we live in will always look ugly and will always be with us as long as we are in these sin-contaminated bodies. We simply have to mitigate and overcome the effects of sin the best we can.
Yeah, @Kokavkrystallos has a good point, but it took too long to understand trying to wade through 19th and 20th century theologian material. But your point and mine are similar, though I do not see any verses quoted in yours, man. Since I reply to folks such as @tonychanyt a lot on this forum, I have made it my duty to quote verses, as he likes our replies to cite verses. So, it is habit now, almost algorithmic (robotic) for me to quote verses in my posts.

Which verses fit most with your response?
 
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RandyPNW

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Yeah, @Kokavkrystallos has a good point, but it took too long to understand trying to wade through 19th and 20th century theologian material. But your point and mine are similar, though I do not see any verses quoted in yours, man. Since I reply to folks such as @tonychanyt a lot on this forum, I have made it my duty to quote verses, as he likes our replies to cite verses. So, it is habit now, almost algorithmic (robotic) for me to quote verses in my posts.

Which verses fit most with your response?
Sorry that I didn't quote Scriptures--I probably could have, maybe should have. I usually quote them when I recognize where my thinking came from.

So the maturing process comes from a number of verses that suggest maturity and growth. In Luke 8 Jesus talked about the sowing of seeds, which grow yielding fruit. In 1 Cor 2.6 Paul speaks about Christians who are mature and as such have wisdom from God. In Heb 5.14 the author speaks of those who are mature who can eat meat, and not just drink milk like infants.

James 1.4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

Paul even speaks about collective growth, when the Church is functioning in harmony...

Eph 4.15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

Paul speaks of his not having reached perfection even well into his ministry.

Phil 3.13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
15 All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. 16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.


Living in the sin-contaminated flesh is a never-ending job of overcoming...

Rom 8.10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.

1 Cor 9.26 Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

2 Cor 4.10 We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body.
 
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AlexB23

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Sorry that I didn't quote Scriptures--I probably could have, maybe should have. I usually quote them when I recognize where my thinking came from.

So the maturing process comes from a number of verses that suggest maturity and growth. In Luke 8 Jesus talked about the sowing of seeds, which grow yielding fruit. In 1 Cor 2.6 Paul speaks about Christians who are mature and as such have wisdom from God. In Heb 5.14 the author speaks of those who are mature who can eat meat, and not just drink milk like infants.

James 1.4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

Paul even speaks about collective growth, when the Church is functioning in harmony...

Eph 4.15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

Paul speaks of his not having reached perfection even well into his ministry.

Phil 3.13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
15 All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. 16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.


Living in the sin-contaminated flesh is a never-ending job of overcoming...

Rom 8.10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.

1 Cor 9.26 Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

2 Cor 4.10 We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body.
Thank you for quoting scriptures brother. So, now my comment featuring 1 Corinthians 6:11, 2 Corinthians 3:18 and Philippians 2:12-13 can be complimented by Ephesians 4:15, Philippians 3:13, Romans 8:10 and even more verses from 1 and 2 Corinthians. So, I agree entirely with your analysis. :) Seems like all of the verses we both chose fit together similar to a pair of gears.
 
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contratodo

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Sanctification is by the Spirit.

We receive the Holy Spirit for free by grace for just believing. [ Luke 11:13, Acts 2:38, Galatians 3:2, Ephesians 1:13 ]


Not by works of righteousness we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration
and renewing of the Holy Ghost, which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior.
Titus 3:5-6

Because as many as are led by the Spirit of God,
they are the children of God.
Romans 8:14

A child of God is one born of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Therefore, according to Romans 8:14, being born again means being led by the Holy Spirit.



Be not deceived, God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap.
He that sows to his flesh, shall of the flesh reap corruption.
He that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Galatians 6:7-8
 
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Diamond7

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I must pray Psalm 139 and ask the Lord to search me and see if there is any wicked in me.
Then you know 139 16 that God gives us all of our gifts, talents and abilities at or before conception. So we need to become the person He declares us to be and use all we have to bring Him praise, honor and glory. Really there is nothing better than to worship God. That is the best way to enter into His presence. As we are to go boldly before the throne of grace. Then of course there is living water to wash and cleanse us. But we have to allow what we receive to flow through us to others. God will give us what He can get through us to others. As a Bride our wedding garment is washed and cleansed in the Blood of Jesus.
 
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FireDragon76

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The Bible doesn't teach entire sanctification. The Apostle says "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us".
 
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fhansen

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If you were to ask which doctrine I believe, I'm honestly between the two! I see the points of both in scripture. I believe sanctification MUST be taught, and truly without holiness no one shall see the LORD. The question remains whether we can attain entire sanctification as a perpetual ongoing thing. I think there are moments of it, maybe even a day of it, where in my experience I must pray Psalm 139 and ask the Lord to search me and see if there is any wicked in me. But to maintain that day by day ongoing I have yet to experience.
There's no entering heaven without holiness: Rom 2:7, 6 & 8, Heb 12:14, Matt 19:17, Gal 5:21, Rev 21 & 22, etc.
 
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Diamond7

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The Bible doesn't teach entire sanctification. The Apostle says "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us".
Keep going if we confess our sin He is faithful and just to cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

The word all means just that: ALL.

1712938373531.png
 
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FireDragon76

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Keep going if we confess our sin He is faithful and just to cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

The word all means just that: ALL.

View attachment 345774

That doesn't mean we are sinless in this life.

Entire sanctification is works-righteousness and overturns the Gospel of grace.
 
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The Liturgist

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When John Wesley spoke of Entire Sanctification he was translating Theosis, the soteriology of the Eastern Orthodox church, which is, like salvation itself, regarded as a process and not as an event.
 
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The Liturgist

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That doesn't mean we are sinless in this life.

Entire sanctification is works-righteousness and overturns the Gospel of grace.

Just to clarify are you talking about John Wesley’s concept, which actually refers to Theosis, or are you referring to the idea that we are instantly sanctified or some other meaning of Entire Sanctification?
 
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ViaCrucis

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Keep going if we confess our sin He is faithful and just to cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

The word all means just that: ALL.

View attachment 345774

The second part is the Good News that corresponds to the Bad News contained in the first part.

The Bad News: We're sinners.
The Good News: God forgives us.

Law and Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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When John Wesley spoke of Entire Sanctification he was translating Theosis, the soteriology of the Eastern Orthodox church, which is, like salvation itself, regarded as a process and not as an event.

While I'm not qualifies to speak on John Wesley or his theology.

I know enough in how "Entire Sanctification" as a concept has emerged in American Christianity in certain quarters; as a belief that a Christian either has, or can, attain a state of perfect holiness. In other words, they have attained Impeccability--they are wholly sinless. This is taught as either something already attained, or something that can be attained in this life.

Calling such doctrine anti-Gospel is, in my opinion, would actually be only one of a number of words to describe it; I would personally also call it antinomian, moralistic, arrogant, and the height of spiritual delusion.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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FireDragon76

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Just to clarify are you talking about John Wesley’s concept, which actually refers to Theosis, or are you referring to the idea that we are instantly sanctified or some other meaning of Entire Sanctification?

Some Wesleyans, particularly the Holiness movement, teach that entire sanctification is something that is perfect and complete (not a process), and that it is possible to live sinless through ones own efforts. Consequently, these churches tend to be legalistic and perfectionistic, to speak of "Backsliding" or other unbiblical concepts.
 
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FireDragon76

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While I'm not qualifies to speak on John Wesley or his theology.

I know enough in how "Entire Sanctification" as a concept has emerged in American Christianity in certain quarters; as a belief that a Christian either has, or can, attain a state of perfect holiness. In other words, they have attained Impeccability--they are wholly sinless. This is taught as either something already attained, or something that can be attained in this life.

Calling such doctrine anti-Gospel is, in my opinion, would actually be only one of a number of words to describe it; I would personally also call it antinomian, moralistic, arrogant, and the height of spiritual delusion.

-CryptoLutheran

Jesus seems dismissive of anybody claiming to be good: "Why do you call me good?", he asked the young ruler.

People that think they are good and are therefore blinded to their own flaws, tend to think they are better than other people. This is egocentricsm disguised as holiness.
 
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FireDragon76

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The real reason we should seek to do good is to glorify God and help our neighbor. The focus on ones own holiness can draw us away from this.
 
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