Noah's flood was an archetype of the flood that destroyed the dinosaurs at the time of Pangea. Just like there are many Edens in the world but the Bible only talks about one of them in ancient Mesopotamia between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.
Is this what they taught you in “Bible college”? If we can’t scientifically prove that God did something that is specifically stated in the scriptures then we should go find something on the internet and present it as truth no matter how ridiculous it is? Because I’m not seeing any evidence of biblical academics in this discussion. All I’m seeing is contradiction after contradiction in every single post and sometimes numerous contradictions in some posts. I’m actually starting to think it’s intentional.
Ok so at this point I have to ask, was Jesus born from a virgin? Did He die and remain dead for 3 days then was resurrected? Are these not contradictory to science?
I would not be a Christian if Science was not so limited in what Science can do. As a Christian we can go far beyond what Science can do. As they say nothing is impossible for God. I had an issue on Aug of 2005 where my chance of survival was one in 1500. My wife and my son prayed me through and I was revived and resuscitated. There are lots of time when I would not be alive if I had to depend on Science and not God.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Brother, I don’t understand why you say that nothing is impossible for God but you say Jesus didn’t walk on water or that Lot’s wife was turned into a pillar of salt because of a meteor. If nothing is impossible for God then why can’t you just accept that God did these things in a miraculous way?I would not be a Christian if Science was not so limited in what Science can do. As a Christian we can go far beyond what Science can do. As they say nothing is impossible for God. I had an issue on Aug of 2005 where my chance of survival was one in 1500. My wife and my son prayed me through and I was revived and resuscitated. There are lots of time when I would not be alive if I had to depend on Science and not God.
Nothing is contradictory to Science. You have to prove something can not be done. I never thought we could clone a sheep but we can. Interesting that only Luke spent time talking to Mary. I would love to see the first conversation between Mary and Eve. Genesis 3:15 talks about "your seed and her Seed". Jesus came 4,000 years later. Eve had to be the Mother and God had to provide the DNA to be the father. Women do not have a male sex hormone. Men do have a female sex hormone. So it is easier for Adam to produce a women then for Mary to produce a man. Although Eve would be a sister to Adam because she would have the mitochondrial DNA from Adam's mother. Sarah was Abrahams sister through their father so she would have the mitochondrial DNA of her mother. So it would be different from Abraham.
So the virgin birth is impossible for Science but miracles happen all the time. Science tends to call a miracle spontaneous remission. This is rare and at most only happens 3% of the time. Miracles are rare but they do happen and Science is ready to try to explain why they happen.
So the answer is you have to prove it can not be done. Apart from God, it would be impossible for a women to produce a man. But as Adam produced Eve, then Eve's descendant produced Jesus to redeem us from the curse when Eve was deceived by the serpent. fr
We do have Jesus DNA from the shroud of Turin but the Church is not allowing the DNA to be examined because they are afraid someone will try to clone Jesus from the DNA. They did test for blood type though.
Blood stains of the Turin Shroud 2015: beyond personal hopes and limitations of techniques - PubMed
In the early '80s, evidence was provided that, rather than a dye (red okra), hemoglobin was indeed responsible for the alleged blood stains of the Turin Shroud. Such stains were shown to belong to an MNS positive individual of the AB group, and the halos surrounding the blood stains were...
You have to look at that passage in context. Because actually lots of things are impossible for God. He can not lie, cheat, steal and so on. Lots of things are unknown so I have no problem accepting miracles. I was simply addressing the people who think we should have a scientific reason for everything in the Bible.
Because I was dead for 10 minutes I have studied what goes on in the brain. There is no off switch and without oxygen the cells pretty much explode. If people are frozen this is not as much of an issue. This slows things down in the brain. Our brain just deal with reality. If we are alive we are alive, if we are dead we are dead. No one cases if someone should be something other than what they are. What was the situation with Lazarus Jesus who raised up after four days? The real miracle will be the resurrection. Even if we are cremated God will bring our body back together again and raise us from the dead. The question is: What is dead. My heart stopped and the fire department used a defibulator to get it going again. Look at organs. They can put them on ice and even transplant a heart and keep the person alive.
You weren’t speaking hypothetically in any of your statements so you weren’t posing these ideas as possibilities you were posing them as truths.
Assuming that you intended "wants us" here to be "warned us," I'd have to say that I don't know where you're getting from scripture that Jesus warned us about people rejecting science because it contradicts their traditions? Jesus was focused on salvation and rebuking and correcting the Pharisees and Sadducees (and other First Century Jewish factions) muddying the waters with their commentaries and additional laws added to the laws and strange beliefs they developed and were teaching the people.
I won't deny that the Holy Spirit can teach us, but I've also found that people who say stuff like 'God told me directly" or "The Spirit told me directly" or any version of it when they're challenged with scripture and whether what was told them aligns with the character of God revealed to us in scripture, things tend to start to fall apart.
I used to hold to this view when I took that verse out of context. The context of 2 Peter 3:8-9 has nothing to do with Creation nor is it defining a day in terms of its measurement of time. The context of that passage is about God's patience and slowness in fulfilling promises yet unseen. Additionally, it uses metaphoric language, "a day is like (or as) a thousand years" it does not say that a day = a thousand years and so for a day anywhere you can arbitrarily insert whatever amount of time you want. No, language works with sets of rules. In the case of the word "day" in Hebrew, just like the word "day" in English, you need context to determine what the word "day" means in regard to the amount of time you're speaking of. Generally speaking, we all know "day" to mean 24 hours. But we know we can use it to mean other things like an indefinite period of time, long period of time, a time in the past, however, when we use it in that way there's always context around it to indicate it's meaning in regard to time.
The problem here is that we're the ones creating a measurement of time from our perspective based on a ratio of events. We pick these events and call that our clock. There's no way to measure time without comparing a set of events that are measured. Even from this, many physicists would say that there is uniformity throughout the universe in time in certain measurements. Whether or not these measurements changed in the past or would in the future, has been and is up for debate. However, does that negate the fact that we know a day to mean 24 hours when measured in its proper context (solar day) or when linguistically used in this context? No, it doesn't. Simply because our observations from our understanding of time rewards us with more mysteries of how the universe that God created works doesn't change what's been written down in regard to how He did anything miraculous. Remember, He is the one who built all of these machinations in reality. Therefore, He is the one who can work outside of all of these machinations in reality. We, humans, aren't gods and are limited to what we can observe by way of empirical observation.
I'd caution against believing that simply because anyone ventured through higher education and received degrees in said subject that it somehow makes them infallible. We're all still human. Phd holding individuals are also still human and therefore can be fallible, misguided, bias, corrupted, etc. and make unintentional or intentional mistakes. I've alluded to in previous replies to you that we already know of hoaxes pushed by not-so-well-intentioned people in the realm of science to prop up some of these theories, we already know of mistakes by well intentioned people also pushed in science to prop up some of these theories. Do either of these automatically make the theories false? No. The point here is that you are claiming that people of lower education cannot critically think and check people of higher education for some reason. Sometimes people with lofty education can be blinded by their "knowledge" and miss the forest for the trees due to their own obfuscation of the simple facts of reality.
I can only assume he’s referring to Matthew 6 but that’s still not what Jesus said and has nothing to do with the context of the passage.
Yeah the Holy Spirit teaches us in areas like morality and scriptural discernment but He doesn’t teach us things like history except in extremely rare cases and even in those cases He never teaches anything that is contradictory to scripture.
But like you said, if that's what's being referred to, it's ignoring the context of the passage and gets into exactly what I said - Jesus contending with them because they created a lot of lofty and legalese "traditions of the elders" (verse 2) and has absolutely nothing to do with modern science and man's musings about reality.
Agree.
I think brother Diamond7 may not realize that when a person rejects scientific evidence based on what’s written in the scriptures it doesn’t have anything to do with their own level of education, it has everything to do with our understanding of God’s education which infinitely surpasses that of all mankind.
Jesus emphasized the importance of discernment and warned against clinging rigidly to traditions that may hinder understanding or growth. In this case traditions hinder people from learning what God is using Science to show us. I consider science and religion to be our left and our right hand. They need to work together, Of course people have different ideas about what religion is. I am talking about pure religion and pure science.
Reminds me of when my son put on his tee shirt and it was inside out and backwards. Swing and a miss, nice try though. There is no reason for me to continue the conversation with people that want to twist my words into something I am not saying. Just like they do with science and religion.
Adam and eve lived 6,000 years ago. The church age has been 2,000 years. The 1000 year reign of Christ will be one thousand years an it will be the sabbath where man will rest from his works. The Bible has many layers of meaning. The Rabbi say up to 100 layers of meaning. Every day in almost every post we talk about the RULES of Bible interpretation and I continue to be amazed at the people that want to break the rules. 2 Peter 1:20a "no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.".
Interesting that the very first thing we teach our sunday school students when they are about a year old is about Joshua and the Battle of Jericho. So you not believe the evidence that Jericho is a real city with history? I studied ancient history in HIgh School and the teacher was a holocaust survivor. I can assure you he took things very serious and I am very grateful for what archeology and history teach us about the Bible. We need math, we need science, we need religion and we need history. IF you want to disregard science and history then you simply are NOT going to know the Bible as well. You are going to restrict and hinder your growth.
Back when we had dictionaries we saw that a word had MORE THAN one meaning. As I said a day can mean a 24 hour day, it can mean 1,000 years and in one situation, like looking at the age of the Universe, a day can be 6 billion years. Gerald Schroeder talks about this and he has a PhD from MIT. He has also written quite a few popular books about science and the Bible. Of course he is Hebrew so his perspective maybe a little different from the Christian perspective. But we have to remember where we get our Bible from and who God's Chosen people are.
Interesting the poster mentioned solar day which wasn't even around in the beginning. Yet people apply the solar day to every day in the creation account. The heavens certainly have days in which solar days reside in like the milky way galaxy. In the day God created heavens and earth is still expanding and He's still creating.
Yes that is a very good point. Time from OUR perspective began on the fourth day. The Bible calendar is very different from the one we use today.
Nice back flip you did. We listen to the Holy Spirit for ourselves. I spend 50 years to read, study, pray and seek after God. Then people come along with five minutes worth of effort and they think they know more than what took me 50 years to learn. Anyone can give their testimony but I would be very careful of the doctrine of people who have not been a Christian for 40 years. People can believe whatever they want to believe. Whatever they believe has no impact on us that are lead by the Holy Spirit of God. If they get it right or wrong, God well deal with them. God would not go to the extent He goes to keep me alive if He did not have a reason, plan and purpose for me. Even He tells me if I would live right, He would not need to revive me and He takes no delight in having to rescue me from my own ignorance.
Look just stop twisting Christ’s words to support your agenda. He never said anything remotely close to what you’re saying here and you know it which is why you haven’t quoted it from the scriptures. I dunno maybe you think your talking to someone who doesn’t know everything that Jesus said in the scriptures but your dead wrong. Your not fooling anyone, you strike me as someone who’s not here to actually discuss the scriptures, your here to troll and start arguments which is why you constantly say the most controversial contradictions in EVERY SINGLE POST. This doesn’t just happen on accident it’s quite apparent that you’re doing this intentionally. The only reason I’ve even been engaging in the discussion for the past week is to allow you to bury yourself so far in false statements that no one could possibly mistaken anything you say as truth. What your teaching is dangerous and it undermines the authority of scripture. As soon as you start teaching that the scriptures aren’t accurate and reliable you profane the integrity of God and if we allow such teachings to become common it only results in moving people farther away from believing the actual gospel. You’re constantly rejecting the miracles of God even going so far as to imply that Christ’s resurrection is scientifically possible because you were resuscitated by medical technicians. What your teaching is that God is not performing divine acts and that His miracles are not miracles at all and can be accomplished thru technology and natural occurrences. Your undermining the very purpose that God performed these miracles which was to set Himself apart from being just an ordinary intelligent being but a Supreme being that can perform the impossible. God is not just a smart technologically advanced alien, He’s a divine supernatural GOD who can perform anything at anytime by doing nothing more than speaking it into existence. He is not bound by any of the laws of science or nature, or even reality and to speak otherwise is an offense to who He actually is.
