My Atmosphere Challenge

[AV1611VET]

... before "the Fall," whatever the Fall really was,

In other words, you're using the Fall as a standard, but you don't really know what the Fall is.

Okay then.

Well ... this thread isn't about the Fall anyway.

It's about life before the Fall.

 

[AV1611VET]

I think you're doing too much eisegesis here, AV.

Well it shouldn't matter.

This thread isn't about the Fall, the Flood, the Resurrection, Jacob's Well, Jacob's Ladder, the Tower of Babel, the Temple, Moses, King David, Nehushtan, the Pool of Siloam, the parting of the Red Sea, water out of a rock, walking on water, being swallowed by a whale, the Philistines, the Edomites, the Promised Land, tooth decay, poor eyesight, lactose intolerance, etc and so on.

It's about life before the Fall.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

In other words, you're using the Fall as a standard, but you don't really know what the Fall is.

No. I'm saying that the Fall has been misread and/or misconstrued by many modern Christians, and even some old ones (like St. Augustine).

Okay then.

Well ... this thread isn't about the Fall anyway.

It's about life before the Fall.

All I see from the overall contexts in the Edenic narrative is that mortality existed as a base line and that some more superlative providence had to be accessed by Adam and Even in order to surmount that base line.

 

[AV1611VET]

How many atoms or molecules are needed to make an atmosphere? I don't know - what's the smallest number of grains of sand that make a pile?

I'm going to agree with your point here.

After all, according to the Smithsonian, their version of the atmosphere when it first showed, up are pockets of noxious, toxic gasses.

Then those pockets of gasses were made bigger by volcanic activity that made it even worse, until it stretched around the whole earth.

Then all that toxic material got filtered out -- (which it really didn't, since oxygen is extremely toxic) -- and then God pronounced everything "very good."

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Well it shouldn't matter.

This thread isn't about the Fall, the Flood, the Resurrection, Jacob's Well, Jacob's Ladder, the Tower of Babel, the Temple, Moses, King David, Nehushtan, the Pool of Siloam, the parting of the Red Sea, water out of a rock, walking on water, being swallowed by a whale, the Philistines, the Edomites, the Promised Land, tooth decay, poor eyesight, lactose intolerance, etc and so on.

It's about life before the Fall.

Right. And what I'm getting at applies. So, from the lens of an Evolutionist, I already assume that life and death are a part of the biological layout among species and biomes. I also think that from the lens of ancient Israelite cosmology, an interpretive case can be made that death was also the expected outcome among living things, even before Adam and Even bit the forbidden fruit and were then ushered out of the Garden.

 

[Yttrium]

So if you're willing to use our disagreements as a valid argument; are you willing to use our agreements as well?

I say you're not.

What say you?

Of course I'm willing. Why wouldn't I be? I'm certainly not going to argue that the Trinity doesn't line up with the Bible, since the Trinity is something that all mainstream Christians agree on, as far as I can tell.

But corrosion didn't exist prior to the Fall.

So you claim, with insufficient justification.

 

[AV1611VET]

No. I'm saying that the Fall has been misread and/or misconstrued by many modern Christians, and even some old ones (like St. Augustine).

What say we back up in time before this "whatever it is" Fall occurred and compare science's version of the atmosphere to God's version?

All I see from the overall contexts in the Edenic narrative is that mortality existed ...

Who died under this pristine atmosphere?

... as a base line and that some more superlative providence had to be accessed by Adam and Even in order to surmount that base line.

Uh ... ya.

 

[Yttrium]

I'm going to agree with your point here.

After all, according to the Smithsonian, their version of the atmosphere when it first showed, up are pockets of noxious, toxic gasses.

Then those pockets of gasses were made bigger by volcanic activity that made it even worse, until it stretched around the whole earth.

Then all that toxic material got filtered out -- (which it really didn't, since oxygen is extremely toxic) -- and then God pronounced everything "very good."

They were not toxic at the time. Can you guess why?

 

[pgp_protector]

Without Oxygen's ability to Decay(break down chemical bonds)
Adam & Eve would of been dead on the first day.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What say be back up in time before this "whatever it is" Fall occurred and compare science's version of the atmosphere to God's version?



Who died under this pristine atmosphere?



Uh ... ya.

Uh....................ya! That superlative providence I was implying and purposely left out is the Tree of Life. Without it, nothing in creation was living forever, not even Adam and Eve. And they didn't have access to it for long.

So..................................................................................................................................... therefore

 

[AV1611VET]

Right. And what I'm getting at applies.

* cough *

[raspy voice] Okay [/raspy voice]

So, from the lens of an Evolutionist, I already assume that life and death are a part of the biological layout among species and biomes.

I'd ask when that death started, but we'd get ourselves right back to the Fall.

And you're so set on not answering the OP, you'll do ANYTHING to keep from admitting I have a point.

I also think that from the lens of ancient Israelite cosmology, an interpretive case can be made that death was also the expected outcome among living things,

Here we go again.

The "ancient Israelites" didn't describe earth's atmosphere as different from the Smithsonian version.

The Smithsonian version is describing earth's atmosphere as different from Adam's version.

... even before Adam and Even bit the forbidden fruit and were then ushered out of the Garden.

Yes.

God made provision for life after the Fall, before the earth was even created.

Meantime, back to the earth's atmosphere in Genesis 1 ...

 

[AV1611VET]

Of course I'm willing.

So you claim, with insufficient justification.

Don't you mean "evidence"?

Or are you saying the Bible constitutes "insufficient justification"?

 

[AV1611VET]

Without Oxygen's ability to Decay (break down chemical bonds) Adam & Eve would of been dead on the first day.

 

[pgp_protector]

Are you implying they're not human and that the human cellular cycle doesn't apply to them?

 

[AV1611VET]

Are you implying they're not human and that the human cellular cycle doesn't apply to them?

I've put in for thread closure.

I should have known better.

 

[pgp_protector]

I've put in for thread closure.

I should have known better.

Yea that's you MO.
Doesn't go you way, shut it down.

 

[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

Per the OP's request:

MOD HAT OFF​