Foods which correlate with CVD risk

[RDKirk]

I don't think I could trust info about diet including published studies.

Just toy around with the search engine. Search for topics like "is bla bla bla good for you", "is bla bla bla bad for you". And you'll actually find results of different studies publishing contradictory results.

Although a few things remain true from personal experiences like fast food, processed meat, and junk food are indeed bad.

Only one thing experts in health seem to unanimously agree on is exercising. So far I haven't heard of any experts saying that exercising is bad, save for, over-doing it.

I haven't seen a study yet that evaluated omnivorous eating on anything but epidemiological junk-food eating samples. They all fall prey to the "good habits" bias. They compare vegans and vegetarians--who are obviously controlling their diets and probably also follow other good habits--with run-of-the-mill junk-food Standard American Diet eaters. They need to compare clean-eating vegans/vegetarians with clean-eating omnivores. One example might be to compare vegan/vegetarian elite athletes with omnivorous elite athletes.

 

[FireDragon76]

Clinical really or epidemiological?

Both. Research on saturated fat has involved animal models and human trials.

 

[timewerx]

Some countries have more suicides typically because of wider sociological factors, not because of specific religious beliefs about the afterlife.

I could attest to the fact my strong Christian upbringing is what prevented me from committing suicide many times.

Statistics simply reflect the strong correlation of religion with suicide rates.

Go see for yourself the most religious countries:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/rankings/religious

You'll also find these most religious countries are among those countries with lowest suicide rates here:

SUICIDE DEATH RATE BY COUNTRY

Interactive Charts and Maps that Rank Suicide as a Cause of Death for every country in the World.

www.worldlifeexpectancy.com

USA is one notable exception (quite religious and yet with high suicide rates) which might prove that Christianity have negligible impact on American citizens which is likely a symptom of a very huge problem from a Christian perspective.

On thing is obvious is the weak Christian upbringing of children in USA through means that are non-Biblical. Young people here do genuinely fear Hell. Suicide is seen here like a point of no return, an offense where forgiveness can no longer be asked for.

Ironically, these statistics also show strong correlation with the "happiest countries" also having high suicide rates. Like Finland and Iceland.... Ironic isn't it? Or these statistics equating low stress with happiness/joy/contentment. They're not the same.

Here in the US, we have medicalized ordinary life experiences into pathology.

Mental care has barely begun in my country so most people still depend on religion or booze to guide them when having problematic thoughts

Some of those values are relatively recent. East Asia has been gradually shaped since the post World War II era by the values of capitalism and materialism, often imposed or modeled after the American pattern of development. These are often held in tension with Confucian or Buddhist values (even in a country like Korea).

My mom's Chinese pastor told about experiencing the wealth-centered materialistic culture from a young age and that pastor is now in his 70's. All the way back to the 1950's and maybe even earlier.

South Korea is among countries with the highest suicide rates. They're not the nicest people I've seen. They're quite racist. If you're White Caucasian, you'll be quite ok with them. But people like me, they probably don't see us as people.

To be honest, these high suicide rates don't make sense to me. Unless you're taking everything for granted. Quite the miserable way to live. I doubt it's good to the health either.

 

[timewerx]

I haven't seen a study yet that evaluated omnivorous eating on anything but epidemiological junk-food eating samples. They all fall prey to the "good habits" bias. They compare vegans and vegetarians--who are obviously controlling their diets and probably also follow other good habits--with run-of-the-mill junk-food Standard American Diet eaters. They need to compare clean-eating vegans/vegetarians with clean-eating omnivores. One example might be to compare vegan/vegetarian elite athletes with omnivorous elite athletes.

I have a choice to be vegetarian but I prefer omnivore because the diet is simpler. "Protein-complete" foods are somewhat effective for post workout recovery and the most convenient and cheapest way for me to get it is through meat instead of juggling through different vegetables.

But the majority of my calories are still coming from plant-based foods, mainly carbs to help fuel the workouts.

I avoid junk foods because I can't digest it properly (I get diarrhea) and negatively impacts my workouts.

 

[FireDragon76]

I could attest to the fact my strong Christian upbringing is what prevented me from committing suicide many times.

Statistics simply reflect the strong correlation of religion with suicide rates.

Yes, but specific religious beliefs have little to do with religion's protective effect against suicide. It is believed by sociologists it has more to do with the social connections associated with religion. You see the same protective effect in most religions, regardless of their beliefs.

USA is one notable exception (quite religious and yet with high suicide rates) which might prove that Christianity have negligible impact on American citizens which is likely a symptom of a very huge problem from a Christian perspective.

Americans 40 and younger are far less likely to be religious than past generations. They are also much more likely to report having few close friends, and to experience mental health problems.

Ironically, these statistics also show strong correlation with the "happiest countries" also having high suicide rates. Like Finland and Iceland.... Ironic isn't it? Or these statistics equating low stress with happiness/joy/contentment. They're not the same.

That's why Arthur Brooks dismissed them as meaningless.

Also, "happiness" in the American context means something very different from Finland. Some languages have different connotations to the word "happiness".

 

[FireDragon76]

I haven't seen a study yet that evaluated omnivorous eating on anything but epidemiological junk-food eating samples. They all fall prey to the "good habits" bias. They compare vegans and vegetarians--who are obviously controlling their diets and probably also follow other good habits--with run-of-the-mill junk-food Standard American Diet eaters. They need to compare clean-eating vegans/vegetarians with clean-eating omnivores. One example might be to compare vegan/vegetarian elite athletes with omnivorous elite athletes.

All participants in this study were exposed to beans, nuts, legumes, fruits and vegetables, and whole grains. Refined grains and sugar were restricted in both groups. The vegan diet group still had better cardiometabolic markers than the omnivorous group:

Vegan diet outperforms omnivorous in cardiometabolic health, twin study reveals

In a JAMA Network Open study, researchers found that an eight-week vegan diet intervention in adult identical twins led to significant improvements in cardiometabolic health, including reduced LDL cholesterol and fasting insulin levels, compared to an omnivorous diet.

www.news-medical.net

 

[timewerx]

Yes, but specific religious beliefs have little to do with religion's protective effect against suicide. It is believed by sociologists it has more to do with the social connections associated with religion. You see the same protective effect in most religions, regardless of their beliefs.

Americans 40 and younger are far less likely to be religious than past generations. They are also much more likely to report having few close friends, and to experience mental health problems.

It does seem that religiousness and social connections are strongly correlated. But the factor of religion cannot be ignored with very strong correlation with suicide rates.

And again USA is one major oddity in this relationship having relatively small% of non-religious and yet, weak social connections.

South Korea on the other hand have relatively large % of non-religious and also have weak social connectivity as expected.

However, the % of non-religious in USA is quickly accelerating its growth which is a disturbing trend and probably reflected in high suicide rates and also in social connectivity.

Now going back to topic, people I knew who immigrated to one of the "happiest" countries in the Nordic Europe, Asia Pacific. Some say, it is lonely living in those countries. Yet, they are much healthier compared to us despite having worse diet high in junk food.

Their much better health can be attributed to low levels of air pollution, free healthcare, more physical activity as those countries have better infrastructure in promoting exercise even compare to USA, and low stress levels.

It would seem depression, loneliness kills by suicide but high levels of stress kills by giving you sickness.

 

[FireDragon76]

It does seem that religiousness and social connections are strongly correlated. But the factor of religion cannot be ignored with very strong correlation with suicide rates.

And again USA is one major oddity in this relationship having relatively small% of non-religious and yet, weak social connections.

South Korea on the other hand have relatively large % of non-religious and also have weak social connectivity as expected.

I'm not an expert on South Korea but from what I've seen of Korean culture, there is more sociability than a country like the US.

There's a famous book written decades ago about America's declining social involvement, called Bowling Alone, by Robert Putnam. Americans used to be a country of civic engagement and sociability but this began to change during the 1970's and 1980's with the introduction of widespread neoliberal economic policies. People stopped joining labor unions in great numbers, they stopped going to amateur sports leagues (hence the title of the book, Bowling Alone), they stopped going to churches (or if they did go to churches, they tended to go to churches that preached a very individualistic message, often of wealth and prosperity), etc.

However, the % of non-religious in USA is quickly accelerating its growth which is a disturbing trend and probably reflected in high suicide rates and also in social connectivity.

Now going back to topic, people I knew who immigrated to one of the "happiest" countries in the Nordic Europe, Asia Pacific. Some say, it is lonely living in those countries. Yet, they are much healthier compared to us despite having worse diet high in junk food.

Their much better health can be attributed to low levels of air pollution, free healthcare, more physical activity as those countries have better infrastructure in promoting exercise even compare to USA, and low stress levels.

It would seem depression, loneliness kills by suicide but high levels of stress kills by giving you sickness.

Compared to the US, Nordic and Scandinavian countries have good diets. The governments promote relatively healthy but traditional foods, like whole grains, root vegetables, and berries, as the basis for the diet, and has discouraged the consumption of whole milk and butter in favor of low fat milk and canola oil. They've also taken steps to limit the availability of sugary candy to children. They also drink alot of coffee, which might have a protective effect against Type II diabetes.

 

[trophy33]

Compared to the US, Nordic and Scandinavian countries have good diets. The governments promote relatively healthy but traditional foods, like whole grains, root vegetables, and berries, as the basis for the diet, and has discouraged the consumption of whole milk and butter in favor of low fat milk and canola oil. They've also taken steps to limit the availability of sugary candy to children. They also drink alot of coffee, which might have a protective effect against Type II diabetes.

Can you provide graphs showing the incidence of cancer, diabetes and CVD in Scandinavia? Not mortality (which is influenced by good healthcare), but incidence.

 

[FireDragon76]

Can you provide graphs showing the incidence of cancer, diabetes and CVD in Scandinavia? Not mortality (which is influenced by good healthcare), but incidence.

CVD is still the leading killer in western countries, but countries like Sweden and Finland have done alot to reduce cardiovascular disease mortality. Part of that is due to changes in food policy, part is due to improved treatments.

Statistics Finland - 2. Ischaemic heart disease still the cause of one in five deaths for men

www.stat.fi

Finland’s bold push to change the heart health of a nation

Beginning in its bleak borderlands, the country launched an official — and broadly influential — effort to improve food and lifestyle choices, using everything from cozy fireside chats and reality TV shows to laws and incentives.

knowablemagazine.org

 

[trophy33]

CVD is still the leading killer in western countries, but countries like Sweden and Finland have done alot to reduce cardiovascular disease mortality. Part of that is due to changes in food policy, part is due to improved treatments.

Statistics Finland - 2. Ischaemic heart disease still the cause of one in five deaths for men

www.stat.fi

Finland’s bold push to change the heart health of a nation

Beginning in its bleak borderlands, the country launched an official — and broadly influential — effort to improve food and lifestyle choices, using everything from cozy fireside chats and reality TV shows to laws and incentives.

knowablemagazine.org

As I said, not mortality, which goes always down with good healthcare and early preventive detection, but CVD and cancer incidence, i.e. to see that they are not even getting those diseases and problems and how it correlates with their diet.

 

[timewerx]

I'm not an expert on South Korea but from what I've seen of Korean culture, there is more sociability than a country like the US.

There's a famous book written decades ago about America's declining social involvement, called Bowling Alone, by Robert Putnam. Americans used to be a country of civic engagement and sociability but this began to change during the 1970's and 1980's with the introduction of widespread neoliberal economic policies. People stopped joining labor unions in great numbers, they stopped going to amateur sports leagues (hence the title of the book, Bowling Alone), they stopped going to churches (or if they did go to churches, they tended to go to churches that preached a very individualistic message, often of wealth and prosperity), etc.

Here's a statistics by country of how they valued family ties.

How people around the world view family ties in their countries

Across the 27 countries surveyed, almost six-in-ten (58%) believe family ties have gotten weaker over the past 20 years. This is true in virtually every

www.pewresearch.org

I was utterly surprised myself to see South Korea doing significantly worse than USA. Rich (high per capita income) countries tend to be weak in this metric as we can assume that better financial stability / security fosters an atmosphere of self-sufficiency which makes people less dependent on other people.

The decline of labor unions also happened in my country at the same time as USA because USA have many offshore offices here and they tend to set the standards. These companies didn't just allow the decline in labor unions but also ran disinformation/smear campaign against labor unions and devised job interviews to prevent employment of workers sympathetic to labor unions. They actively demonized labor unions.

Compared to the US, Nordic and Scandinavian countries have good diets. The governments promote relatively healthy but traditional foods, like whole grains, root vegetables, and berries, as the basis for the diet, and has discouraged the consumption of whole milk and butter in favor of low fat milk and canola oil. They've also taken steps to limit the availability of sugary candy to children. They also drink alot of coffee, which might have a protective effect against Type II diabetes.

Relatives who made it to the Nordics did eat healthy diets. Those in Asia Pacific (Australia and New Zealand) still ate plenty of junk food just like people in North America.

But relatives in Australia and New Zealand are still quite healthier compared to us - generally speaking.

It really seems that stress level is exerting a large effect on health. Oh and they keep telling us it's so lonely there but it's been like couple of years since they last took a vacation here. On the other hand, they also tell us, it's a huge blessing having settled in a much nicer country. They love it there because of low levels of pollution.

And.....Low stress.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Related:
In this cohort study, greater adherence to various healthy eating patterns was consistently associated with a lower risk of death. Our findings support the recommendations of DGAs for multiple healthy eating patterns for all US individuals with diverse cultural and personal food traditions and preferences.

Therefore, using 2 large prospective cohorts with data on repeated measures of dietary habits, we derived dietary scores for 4 healthy dietary patterns, including the Healthy Eating Index 2015 (HEI-2015), Alternate Mediterranean Diet (AMED) score, Healthful Plant-based Diet Index (HPDI), and Alternate Healthy Eating Index (AHEI). We then examined their associations with total and cause-specific mortality. We also specifically examined these associations stratified by race and ethnicity and other potential risk factors.

Healthy Eating Patterns and Risk of Total and Cause-Specific Mortality Zhilei Shan, MD, PhD; Fenglei Wang, PhD; Yanping Li, MD, PhD; Megu Y. Baden, MD, PhD; Shilpa N. Bhupathiraju, PhD; Dong D. Wang, MD, ScD; Qi Sun, MD, ScD; Kathryn M. Rexrode, MD, MPH; Eric B. Rimm, ScD; Lu Qi, MD, PhD; Fred K. Tabung, PhD; Edward L. Giovannucci, PhD; Walter C. Willett, MD, DrPH; JoAnn E. Manson, MD, DrPH; Qibin Qi, PhD; Frank B. Hu, MD, PhD

https://watermark.silverchair.com/jamainternal_shan_2023_oi_220079_1680184429.09899.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAA0owggNGBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggM3MIIDMwIBADCCAywGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMTNtZwqjA9SJ-Eb8MAgEQgIIC_Yypc3OXntDRbT3dfwKnizifA0ZcYEe7f_WMWmBQ6vr0Bn5V3DH0PFF0EWJsqPiqvfc-58RkLBt_RtrkFdswwf6u8pyB9IgqS6SZ0Nk8FEfsCYJlsBALxqoqWIdCntjnA8wC4kO1L4pucuo2_7ZLDVo_C8UE6VSv9TZ3E0_LjtZUJNuGKjWUzOrXnwVMwfyEcN_WK8bRG1GNTGsfdbIFX9wQa7fZsTnGEtHXkiY9NLliGSYqVbWRSDUzSeGxzhV3nWHcYGUL3DwluSLpiUFSWC1t8TZDruOjblW05Gq1-mA0Xuqky9FCgL5y3oLDjDyjgOULK1mPJd8u6agIeTVTsz44ZurLjQ3H95itAaV9pHtIqyu9TjqU_97o7dyB-3nyO96clo9LiyrGkfxVtg0YV_t0c8Nahnk9ZOnWX_JMjVETVTr4NvfcgUQAc7gHqJ_XRFza7Kn9K7ARGFOdNEjaaSap1PObyfjuC3z9KE4upNUpYZUX4BISEx5K8PbdZPRkYjK-dh_2V7VzbPUnPeeF_MUwhJOKsHt3Xleb9fZujEzB7ZVnNDYmBv3lfaxJcLBBNddRp3Hq-bEb2-pe0cKdoohyQYucc8EeIIp87_F7tfYD0QLbCs7Q-Q8A1w9qMEc31PHVTrlSZCvTRElJDMGFMU4lGGwPW-gdkjSs89EEVEwcLVEoQgabnQ0HpvAz8PR2lYMe8hx2wTAkvL7mkpadxNPnL8UPTJhZpYzbbjx-vJoFXUcbRuPW_igs9PIzzBSWu7liZdCz5F7WuTe45iTIqRxht7aTF4JHLbK3AIZaSYNY97NGG0TUyROCHMZJt-Wtw3i7dxMSsb00Cd8_AC9tbXTDrRtmqppBqbdgjkS_S8tL8hk8QbUrtCYLA85MyfgovW3cpqyldRE0K8YIZ57YZAdCcLRbNMVmNv4W9gaah_FsXBZNCfUavNp4xtxrXqvcrG1NuAYo5wmA8uPUOiOwYqujhY-eL1bVToiOmFnv7-OwI193WuIMPf1j6LVmNA

 

[RDKirk]

Related:
In this cohort study, greater adherence to various healthy eating patterns was consistently associated with a lower risk of death. Our findings support the recommendations of DGAs for multiple healthy eating patterns for all US individuals with diverse cultural and personal food traditions and preferences.

Therefore, using 2 large prospective cohorts with data on repeated measures of dietary habits, we derived dietary scores for 4 healthy dietary patterns, including the Healthy Eating Index 2015 (HEI-2015), Alternate Mediterranean Diet (AMED) score, Healthful Plant-based Diet Index (HPDI), and Alternate Healthy Eating Index (AHEI). We then examined their associations with total and cause-specific mortality. We also specifically examined these associations stratified by race and ethnicity and other potential risk factors.

Healthy Eating Patterns and Risk of Total and Cause-Specific Mortality Zhilei Shan, MD, PhD; Fenglei Wang, PhD; Yanping Li, MD, PhD; Megu Y. Baden, MD, PhD; Shilpa N. Bhupathiraju, PhD; Dong D. Wang, MD, ScD; Qi Sun, MD, ScD; Kathryn M. Rexrode, MD, MPH; Eric B. Rimm, ScD; Lu Qi, MD, PhD; Fred K. Tabung, PhD; Edward L. Giovannucci, PhD; Walter C. Willett, MD, DrPH; JoAnn E. Manson, MD, DrPH; Qibin Qi, PhD; Frank B. Hu, MD, PhD

https://watermark.silverchair.com/jamainternal_shan_2023_oi_220079_1680184429.09899.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAA0owggNGBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggM3MIIDMwIBADCCAywGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMTNtZwqjA9SJ-Eb8MAgEQgIIC_Yypc3OXntDRbT3dfwKnizifA0ZcYEe7f_WMWmBQ6vr0Bn5V3DH0PFF0EWJsqPiqvfc-58RkLBt_RtrkFdswwf6u8pyB9IgqS6SZ0Nk8FEfsCYJlsBALxqoqWIdCntjnA8wC4kO1L4pucuo2_7ZLDVo_C8UE6VSv9TZ3E0_LjtZUJNuGKjWUzOrXnwVMwfyEcN_WK8bRG1GNTGsfdbIFX9wQa7fZsTnGEtHXkiY9NLliGSYqVbWRSDUzSeGxzhV3nWHcYGUL3DwluSLpiUFSWC1t8TZDruOjblW05Gq1-mA0Xuqky9FCgL5y3oLDjDyjgOULK1mPJd8u6agIeTVTsz44ZurLjQ3H95itAaV9pHtIqyu9TjqU_97o7dyB-3nyO96clo9LiyrGkfxVtg0YV_t0c8Nahnk9ZOnWX_JMjVETVTr4NvfcgUQAc7gHqJ_XRFza7Kn9K7ARGFOdNEjaaSap1PObyfjuC3z9KE4upNUpYZUX4BISEx5K8PbdZPRkYjK-dh_2V7VzbPUnPeeF_MUwhJOKsHt3Xleb9fZujEzB7ZVnNDYmBv3lfaxJcLBBNddRp3Hq-bEb2-pe0cKdoohyQYucc8EeIIp87_F7tfYD0QLbCs7Q-Q8A1w9qMEc31PHVTrlSZCvTRElJDMGFMU4lGGwPW-gdkjSs89EEVEwcLVEoQgabnQ0HpvAz8PR2lYMe8hx2wTAkvL7mkpadxNPnL8UPTJhZpYzbbjx-vJoFXUcbRuPW_igs9PIzzBSWu7liZdCz5F7WuTe45iTIqRxht7aTF4JHLbK3AIZaSYNY97NGG0TUyROCHMZJt-Wtw3i7dxMSsb00Cd8_AC9tbXTDrRtmqppBqbdgjkS_S8tL8hk8QbUrtCYLA85MyfgovW3cpqyldRE0K8YIZ57YZAdCcLRbNMVmNv4W9gaah_FsXBZNCfUavNp4xtxrXqvcrG1NuAYo5wmA8uPUOiOwYqujhY-eL1bVToiOmFnv7-OwI193WuIMPf1j6LVmNA

That link doesn't work.

But I found an NIH link about that study...that doesn't say anything more.

Healthy Eating Patterns and Risk of Total and Cause-Specific Mortality - PubMed

In this cohort study of 2 large prospective cohorts with up to 36 years of follow-up, greater adherence to various healthy eating patterns was consistently associated with lower risk of total and cause-specific mortality. These findings support the recommendations of Dietary Guidelines for...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The conclusion:

In this cohort study of 2 large prospective cohorts with up to 36 years of follow-up, greater adherence to various healthy eating patterns was consistently associated with lower risk of total and cause-specific mortality. These findings support the recommendations of Dietary Guidelines for Americans that multiple healthy eating patterns can be adapted to individual food traditions and preferences.

That's not particularly helpful.

 

[FireDragon76]

This study is basically comparing a poor diet with the diet of affluent countries, and isn't a fair comparison. In regions like south India, many people often eat poor diets based around refined grains and fat from seed oil, but that doesn't really lend credence to the idea that a western diet based around high meat consumption is necessarily healthier than a diet that is plant-based.

 

[trophy33]

This study is basically comparing a poor diet with the diet of affluent countries, and isn't a fair comparison. In regions like south India, many people often eat poor diets based around refined grains and fat from seed oil, but that doesn't really lend credence to the idea that a western diet based around high meat consumption is necessarily healthier than a diet that is plant-based.

You seem to have a problem (rightly) with many plant based diets, but you always conclude that a plant-based diet is healthy.

Its good to clarify you mean that your specific personal modern plant-based diet is healthy. And that you reject the vast majority of other plant-based diets all over the world as unhealthy.

 

[FireDragon76]

Its good to clarify you mean that your specific personal modern plant-based diet is healthy. And that you reject the vast majority of other plant-based diets all over the world as unhealthy.

I don't necessarily reject the vast majority of plant-based diets. However, this study didn't adequately account for poverty's effect on CVD risk.

If all you eat is mostly refined grain, sugar, and palm oil, you're going to have higher CVD risk than somebody that has a more varied diet.

 

[RDKirk]

I don't necessarily reject the vast majority of plant-based diets. However, this study didn't adequately account for poverty's effect on CVD risk.

If all you eat is mostly refined grain, sugar, and palm oil, you're going to have higher CVD risk than somebody that has a more varied diet.

I know a couple of junk food vegans who do exactly that...and wonder why they can't lose weight.

 

[trophy33]

I don't necessarily reject the vast majority of plant-based diets.

I think its implied by your words that the vegan diet must be carefully planned. And even vegan gurus say that it must be supplemented. Which is a luxury somebody in the most developed countries maybe can somehow do, but not common people all around the world.

Most people eat what they have around them. From rice every day to oreos, fries and sodas every day (yep, junk food people are basically vegans, too). The vast majority of plant based diets would be unhealthy even in your eyes.

 

[RDKirk]

I think its implied by your words that the vegan diet must be carefully planned. And even vegan gurus say that it must be supplemented. Which is a luxury somebody in the most developed countries maybe can somehow do, but not common people all around the world.

Most people eat what they have around them. From rice every day to oreos, fries and sodas every day (yep, junk food people are basically vegans, too). The vast majority of plant based diets would be unhealthy even in your eyes.

That's the reason there are no vegan natural cultures. Veganism as a culture requires modern technology to provide a year-round viable diet.