What would the country be like if Biden won ?

[Aldebaran]

As you learned, vaccinated people are much less likely to become infected, compared to unvaccinated people. No point in denial; that just a fact. Is it likely that a person who is active in public affairs will be exposed to many more people? Yes, likely so. But that doesn't change the data, which clearly show that unvaccinated people are at a much higher risk of infection and death.

Which of these vaccinated people were hospitalized or became seriously ill? It's possible that I was infected at some point, and never got symptoms. Because I was vaccinated. And as you know, fully vaccinated people are much less likely to get infected at all.

Unvaccinated Americans have died at 11 times the rate of those fully vaccinated since the delta variant
became the dominant strain, indicate surveillance data gathered over the summer by the US Centers for
Disease Control. Vaccinated people were 10 times less likely to be admitted to hospital and five times less likely to be infected than unvaccinated people, found one study that tracked adults across 13 states and cities.1 Levels of protection were lower than were conferred by vaccines offered at the end of spring, the study found. Vaccine efficacy has declined since the delta variant became dominant around 20 June. The decline in efficacy against hospital admission or death was small, but the protection offered against infection has slipped more significantly. From 4 April to 20 June unvaccinated people died from covid-19 at 16.6 times the rate among the fully vaccinated (95% confidence interval 13.5 to 20.4). Between 20 June and 17 July that rate fell to 11.3 (9.1 to 13.9). Before 20 June admissions of unvaccinated people with covid-19 to hospital were running at 13.3 (11.3 to 15.6) times the rate among the vaccinated, but this had fallen to 10.4 (8.1 to 13.3) after that date. Unvaccinated people were infected at 11.1 (7.8 to 15.8) times the rate of the vaccinated before 20 June but at only 4.6 (2.5 to 8.5) times the rate thereafter.
https://infomed.com.ar/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/bmj.n2282.full_.pdf

Same old talking points. Since then, they have finally had to admit that they didn't get it right after all. Of course, those who pointed out that fact long ago have always been called "science deniers".

 

[Thomas White]

Same old talking points. Since then, they have finally had to admit that they didn't get it right after all. Of course, those who pointed out that fact long ago have always been called "science deniers".

Who admitted what?

 

[The Barbarian]

As you learned, vaccinated people are much less likely to become infected, compared to unvaccinated people. No point in denial; that just a fact. Is it likely that a person who is active in public affairs will be exposed to many more people? Yes, likely so. But that doesn't change the data, which clearly show that unvaccinated people are at a much higher risk of infection and death.

Which of these vaccinated people were hospitalized or became seriously ill? It's possible that I was infected at some point, and never got symptoms. Because I was vaccinated. And as you know, fully vaccinated people are much less likely to get infected at all.

Unvaccinated Americans have died at 11 times the rate of those fully vaccinated since the delta variant
became the dominant strain, indicate surveillance data gathered over the summer by the US Centers for
Disease Control. Vaccinated people were 10 times less likely to be admitted to hospital and five times less likely to be infected than unvaccinated people, found one study that tracked adults across 13 states and cities.1 Levels of protection were lower than were conferred by vaccines offered at the end of spring, the study found. Vaccine efficacy has declined since the delta variant became dominant around 20 June. The decline in efficacy against hospital admission or death was small, but the protection offered against infection has slipped more significantly. From 4 April to 20 June unvaccinated people died from covid-19 at 16.6 times the rate among the fully vaccinated (95% confidence interval 13.5 to 20.4). Between 20 June and 17 July that rate fell to 11.3 (9.1 to 13.9). Before 20 June admissions of unvaccinated people with covid-19 to hospital were running at 13.3 (11.3 to 15.6) times the rate among the vaccinated, but this had fallen to 10.4 (8.1 to 13.3) after that date. Unvaccinated people were infected at 11.1 (7.8 to 15.8) times the rate of the vaccinated before 20 June but at only 4.6 (2.5 to 8.5) times the rate thereafter.
https://infomed.com.ar/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/bmj.n2282.full_.pdf

Same old talking points.

That's the funny thing about facts; they stay the same over time.

Since then, they have finally had to admit that they didn't get it right after all.

"They" being the deniers, who falsely claimed that the vaccines wouldn't bring down infections to the point that we could relax restrictions. And now that the vaccines have worked, the predictions of doctors and epidemiologists have been verified.

They suggested that when over 70% of American adults were vaccinated, the restrictions could be loosened. The slightly more infectious variants made it go a little longer.

At least 261,591,428 people or 79% of the population have received at least one dose.
Overall, 223,035,566 people or 67% of the population are considered fully vaccinated.
Additionally, 107,490,375 people or 32% of the population have received a booster dose.
US Coronavirus vaccine tracker

About 80% of Americans now have antibodies against COVID-19. So, as predicted...

CDC says most Americans can now take off masks as Covid cases plummet

The announcement comes after weeks of deliberation about what metrics officials should use in deciding when and how to ease public health restrictions.
CDC says most Americans can now take off masks as Covid cases plummet

Did you think it would work otherwise? The epidemiologists got it right.

 

[The Barbarian]

Who admitted what?

Some of the deniers have come clean and admitted that the CDC got it right. The vaccines worked and worked as predicted, to the point that the CDC can relax its guidelines.

Coronavirus victim Paul Russell was a self-confessed conspiracy theorist who thought the virus would “disappear the day after the election”.


Until he caught the killer virus himself.


Now, the long-distance truck driver says, he can’t work anymore. While he survived the virus, it has severely damaged his body, perhaps permanently. “I’m gonna be on oxygen the rest of my life, according to my doctor,” he says.


Paul admits that he was wrong about coronavirus: “Before I came down with the virus, I was one of those (donkeys) who thought the virus would disappear the day after the election. I was one of those conspiracy theorists.”
Covid denier fights for life in hospital and will now 'need oxygen for life' -

 

[Aldebaran]

As you learned, vaccinated people are much less likely to become infected, compared to unvaccinated people. No point in denial; that just a fact. Is it likely that a person who is active in public affairs will be exposed to many more people? Yes, likely so. But that doesn't change the data, which clearly show that unvaccinated people are at a much higher risk of infection and death.

Which of these vaccinated people were hospitalized or became seriously ill? It's possible that I was infected at some point, and never got symptoms. Because I was vaccinated. And as you know, fully vaccinated people are much less likely to get infected at all.

Unvaccinated Americans have died at 11 times the rate of those fully vaccinated since the delta variant
became the dominant strain, indicate surveillance data gathered over the summer by the US Centers for
Disease Control. Vaccinated people were 10 times less likely to be admitted to hospital and five times less likely to be infected than unvaccinated people, found one study that tracked adults across 13 states and cities.1 Levels of protection were lower than were conferred by vaccines offered at the end of spring, the study found. Vaccine efficacy has declined since the delta variant became dominant around 20 June. The decline in efficacy against hospital admission or death was small, but the protection offered against infection has slipped more significantly. From 4 April to 20 June unvaccinated people died from covid-19 at 16.6 times the rate among the fully vaccinated (95% confidence interval 13.5 to 20.4). Between 20 June and 17 July that rate fell to 11.3 (9.1 to 13.9). Before 20 June admissions of unvaccinated people with covid-19 to hospital were running at 13.3 (11.3 to 15.6) times the rate among the vaccinated, but this had fallen to 10.4 (8.1 to 13.3) after that date. Unvaccinated people were infected at 11.1 (7.8 to 15.8) times the rate of the vaccinated before 20 June but at only 4.6 (2.5 to 8.5) times the rate thereafter.
https://infomed.com.ar/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/bmj.n2282.full_.pdf



That's the funny thing about facts; they stay the same over time.



"They" being the deniers, who falsely claimed that the vaccines wouldn't bring down infections to the point that we could relax restrictions. And now that the vaccines have worked, the predictions of doctors and epidemiologists have been verified.

They suggested that when over 70% of American adults were vaccinated, the restrictions could be loosened. The slightly more infectious variants made it go a little longer.

At least 261,591,428 people or 79% of the population have received at least one dose.
Overall, 223,035,566 people or 67% of the population are considered fully vaccinated.
Additionally, 107,490,375 people or 32% of the population have received a booster dose.
US Coronavirus vaccine tracker

About 80% of Americans now have antibodies against COVID-19. So, as predicted...

CDC says most Americans can now take off masks as Covid cases plummet

The announcement comes after weeks of deliberation about what metrics officials should use in deciding when and how to ease public health restrictions.
CDC says most Americans can now take off masks as Covid cases plummet

Did you think it would work otherwise? The epidemiologists got it right.

You're still twisting what I say, and then responding with your copy/paste narratives of propaganda points. If you have actual data, I'm willing to read it.

 

[The Barbarian]

You're still twisting what I say, and then responding with your copy/paste narratives of propaganda points.

Normally, we consider citing research articles from medical journals to be "evidence." Would you like to see some more?

In five countries (Israel, England, Scotland, Sweden and the United States) researchers have analysed
routinely collected data to report the early outcomes of community-wide vaccination programs with three of the first vaccines to reach market: the BNT162b2 mRNA (Pfizer–BioNTech), mRNA-1273 (Moderna) and ChAdOx1 adenoviral vector (Oxford–AstraZeneca) vaccines.5-9 At the time of writing, two of the articles (from the US and Sweden ) have not yet been peer reviewed, so details reported here may change after revisions to these reports.8,9 There is a rapidly growing literature on the community impact of COVID-19 and it has provided very consistent evidence of substantial vaccine effectiveness with the original (Wuhan) viral strain and the Alpha variant.
https://www.mja.com.au/system/files/issues/215_04/mja251182.pdf

If you have actual data, I'm willing to read it.

There you go. There are 18 links to further data on the site. Enjoy. More recently:

International Journal of Infectious Diseases
Volume 114, January 2022, Pages 252-260
Real-world effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines: a literature review and meta-analysis
Results
A total of 51 records were included in this meta-analysis. In fully vaccinated populations, the VE against severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection, COVID-19-related hospitalization, admission to the intensive care unit, and death was 89.1% (95% CI 85.6–92.6%), 97.2% (95% CI 96.1–98.3%), 97.4% (95% CI 96.0–98.8%), and 99.0% (95% CI 98.5–99.6%), respectively. The VE against infection in the general population aged ≥16 years, the elderly, and healthcare workers was 86.1% (95% CI 77.8–94.4%), 83.8% (95% CI 77.1–90.6%), and 95.3% (95% CI 92.0–98.6%), respectively. For those fully vaccinated against infection, the observed effectiveness of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 91.2% and of the Moderna vaccine was 98.1%, while the effectiveness of the CoronaVac vaccine was found to be 65.7%.

Conclusions
The COVID-19 vaccines are highly protective against SARS-CoV-2-related diseases in real-world settings.

Want more data? Just ask.

 

[Aldebaran]

Normally, we consider citing research articles from medical journals to be "evidence." Would you like to see some more?

In five countries (Israel, England, Scotland, Sweden and the United States) researchers have analysed
routinely collected data to report the early outcomes of community-wide vaccination programs with three of the first vaccines to reach market: the BNT162b2 mRNA (Pfizer–BioNTech), mRNA-1273 (Moderna) and ChAdOx1 adenoviral vector (Oxford–AstraZeneca) vaccines.5-9 At the time of writing, two of the articles (from the US and Sweden ) have not yet been peer reviewed, so details reported here may change after revisions to these reports.8,9 There is a rapidly growing literature on the community impact of COVID-19 and it has provided very consistent evidence of substantial vaccine effectiveness with the original (Wuhan) viral strain and the Alpha variant.
https://www.mja.com.au/system/files/issues/215_04/mja251182.pdf



There you go. There are 18 links to further data on the site. Enjoy. More recently:

International Journal of Infectious Diseases
Volume 114, January 2022, Pages 252-260
Real-world effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines: a literature review and meta-analysis
Results
A total of 51 records were included in this meta-analysis. In fully vaccinated populations, the VE against severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection, COVID-19-related hospitalization, admission to the intensive care unit, and death was 89.1% (95% CI 85.6–92.6%), 97.2% (95% CI 96.1–98.3%), 97.4% (95% CI 96.0–98.8%), and 99.0% (95% CI 98.5–99.6%), respectively. The VE against infection in the general population aged ≥16 years, the elderly, and healthcare workers was 86.1% (95% CI 77.8–94.4%), 83.8% (95% CI 77.1–90.6%), and 95.3% (95% CI 92.0–98.6%), respectively. For those fully vaccinated against infection, the observed effectiveness of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 91.2% and of the Moderna vaccine was 98.1%, while the effectiveness of the CoronaVac vaccine was found to be 65.7%.

Conclusions
The COVID-19 vaccines are highly protective against SARS-CoV-2-related diseases in real-world settings.

Want more data? Just ask.

As you already know (based on what I've repeatedly told you), you're not providing any information that is related to what we're discussing. You're just copy/pasting what appears to argue your claims, but doesn't address what we're discussing.

 

[Ray Glenn]

Pardon me .....Exactly what war did Trump get us into?

Now exactly what war are we fighting by proxy as a gift from Biden?

It's too bad the Taliban isn't that organized ......They could have easily attacked Iraq with the weapons Biden left behind .....

Then looked at his watch as every coffin was carried out of the plane.

 

[The Barbarian]

As you already know (based on what I've repeatedly told you), you're not providing any information that is related to what we're discussing.

If you've now conceded, as the evidence I showed you demonstrates, that the vaccines are effective against COVID-19, what do you have left to deny?

 

[The Barbarian]

It's too bad the Taliban isn't that organized ......They could have easily attacked Iraq with the weapons Biden left behind .....

That's why the Taliban said they were "betrayed" by Biden; he had all the weapons systems in US control rendered unusable. Apparently, Trump made some promises to them when he surrendered and agreed to leave the weapons behinds. For a change, Trump's dishonesty paid off for the U.S.

 

[Aldebaran]

If you've now conceded, as the evidence I showed you demonstrates, that the vaccines are effective against COVID-19, what do you have left to deny?

The idea that you're even having a discussion. All you've done is copied/pasted your way through the thread without addressing anything I've said. That's not even a discussion.

 

[The Barbarian]

The idea that you're even having a discussion.

That's what these are called. You seem unhappy that I'm citing evidence along with my claims. That's what you do in a discussion; it's more than just two people making claims to each other.

As you see, the data show that the COVID-19 vaccines are quite effective against serious illness or death and in fact, even show good effectiveness against infection entirely.

 

[Aldebaran]

That's what these are called. You seem unhappy that I'm citing evidence along with my claims. That's what you do in a discussion; it's more than just two people making claims to each other.

As you see, the data show that the COVID-19 vaccines are quite effective against serious illness or death and in fact, even show good effectiveness against infection entirely.

You're just copy/pasting propaganda points that promote a desired narrative. That's not a discussion.

 

[The Barbarian]

You're just copy/pasting propaganda points that promote a desired narrative. That's not a discussion.

I'm just linking to scientific and medical research to support my claims. That's what you're supposed to do in a discussion.

You asked for data; how did you think I would show it to you?

 

[Aldebaran]

I'm just linking to scientific and medical research to support my claims. That's what you're supposed to do in a discussion.

You asked for data; how did you think I would show it to you?

Thank you for sharing your opinions with me.

 

[The Barbarian]

Thank you for sharing your opinions with me.

Data is not opinion. What it means, can be a matter of opinion, but the data is not.

 

[Laconia79]

Encourage you to vote pro-life, pro-Israel, against socialism (which would be against Christianity) = Republican platform.

Okay do you even know what socialism is. Foodstamps, SSI/SSDI, public services...every country used a degree off socialism, and with the exception of abortion Christ would be a liberal. He would not support Republicans and the belief it is there god given right own a gun. And you think god is pro gun you have not read the bible

 

[Aldebaran]

Okay do you even know socialism is. Foodstamps, SSI/SSDI, public services...every country used a degree off socialism, and with the exception of abortion Christ would be a liberal. He would support Republicans and the belief it is there god given right own a gun. And you think god is pro gun you have not read the bible

Depends on what parts you read and how you read it. Some think that in the OT, God is about nothing but swords and warfare, killing everyone and everything in sight. But when you read the NT, some interpret Jesus to be the complete opposite. However, God does not change.

 

[Laconia79]

Depends on what parts you read and how you read it. Some think that in the OT, God is about nothing but swords and warfare, killing everyone and everything in sight. But when you read the NT, some interpret Jesus to be the complete opposite. However, God does not change.

Christ says turn the other cheek, he says those live by the sword die buy the sword. A thousand verses each with multiple meaning. That book has been used to justify every savage thing done in the last 2000 years.

 

[Aldebaran]

Christ says turn the other cheek, he says those live by the sword die buy the sword. A thousand verses each with multiple meaning. That book has been used to justify every savage thing done in the last 2000 years.

Matthew 5:39
"But I say to you, do not show opposition against an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other toward him also."

Notice that this is about getting a slap on the cheek. That's different from being shot at with a gun, or stabbed with a knife.