RileyG said:

We are primates, yes. It’s just words. Humans are made in the image of God. Apes are not.

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Image? Made?

There's few debates of less consequence than free will vs determinism. If reality is deterministic, we'll still continue as if it were one where we made free will choices....as the understanding of determinism changes nothing about the illusion free will nor our belief in it.

In other words...it quite literally does not matter, at all, who is truthfully correct in this debate.

It was way less than 80,000 and many were there for the amusement park.
There there are the MAGA supporters that travel around to rallies.

lifepsyop said:

Well, as far as a modern American Evangelical, it's someone who believes the American revolution, the U.S. Constitution, and republicanism, democracy, and Liberalism represent God's liberation of humanity from tyranny.. Evangelicals actually do believe in a liberal or progressive form of Christian nationalism.. (think Battle Hymn of the Republic) but they believe God favors the spirit of democracy and the secular framework of the United States. Places like the Lincoln Memorial are semi-sacred temples to the modern American Evangelical.

Modern American Evangelicals tend to primarily focus on the individual experience of the believer because this is what most aligns with the Enlightenment values of the American founding fathers regarding the veneration of individual liberty. They reject Christian nationalism because it violates a countering faith in the classical Liberalism of the founders.



It's been used a lot lately by some prominent figures. But many Americans imply it by their veneration of things like the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution as sacred documents that have liberated humanity.

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Lifepsyop: “Evangelicals actually do believe in a liberal or progressive form of Christian nationalism.. (think Battle Hymn of the Republic) but they believe God favors the spirit of democracy and the secular framework of the United States.”

Where I come from, ultraconservative southerners would be baffled by your claim that liberals are the ones who listen to The Battle Hymn of the Republic.


Lifepsyop on “Sacred Democracy”: “It's been used a lot lately by some prominent figures.”

Could you give an example? You’re the one who brought the subject up.


On liberation from tyranny, freedom isn’t a bad word in the Bible.

I will walk about in freedom, for I have sought out your precepts.
Psalm 119:45 NIV

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to
my teaching, you are really my disciples.
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
John 8:31-32 NIV

But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives
freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has
heard, but doing it — he will be blessed in what he does.
James 1:25 NIV

Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law
that gives freedom,
because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone
who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!
James 2:12-13 NIV

Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up
for evil; live as servants of God.
I Peter 2:16 NIV

RileyG said:

Wonderful! Keep praying! God is faithful and will hear our prayers!

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Amen to that. 2024 has been a year of prayer and learning about scripture for me, and I hope every year will be like this. God has a plan for each and every one of us.

I’m shaking in my boots.

9Rock9 said:

Ah. Complementarianism is the doctrine that only men can serve in ordained ministry, as opposed to egalitarianism, in which women may be ministers.

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Thanks for clarifying.

I will head out because I have no opinion and am not Wesleyan/Methodist.

Will have to skip today.

Paidiske said:

In that case, Surprised by Hope is probably your best starting point.

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Thank you for the suggestion

Blessings

RileyG said:

I don't think there are many members of the Church of the Nazarene here. There are many members of the UMC and Independent Methodist Church. I'm not sure what you are asking? If men and women are complementary to each other?

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Ah. Complementarianism is the doctrine that only men can serve in ordained ministry, as opposed to egalitarianism, in which women may be ministers.

Cosmic Charlie said:

"Experts weigh in."

"Crisis in Catechesis", "Gospel of the Sexual Revolution".

Who are these experts ?

I've actually talked to, like, a Catholic Theologian on this topic (in secret, of course, off the record, semi anonymously because they can't talk out loud because they've been effectively silenced on the topic - a fact that speaks volumes about the problems with this teaching)

I've read Humane Vitae, more the once. Discussed it with others.

Maybe the problem isn't the Catechesis, maybe the teaching doesn't make sense.

It's been suggested.

More the once.

By better minds then mine (by me - but by better minds then mine as well)

Humane Vitae is badly reasoned, based almost sole on Natural Law (which is subject to reinterpretation without notice), incomplete in its logic and was written by one man after he rejected the multi-year research of an ecumenical council on the subject. His reason for rejection of the majority of the council was never made clear. And the almost universal rejection by almost everyone who has to actually use this teaching brings the possibility of it being just wrong based on something called the "Magisterium of the laity", a concept I can't even begin to explain but has been suggested to me by said Catholic Theologian.

Anyway.

My first post on our little forum was about Humane Vitae needing clarification. I got jumped immediately.

20 years later, it still needs clarification. Because nobody, who can actually understand it, buys it completely. And that's not a problem in Catechesis, that's a problem with the teaching itself. And most people can't really understand it, because it's badly reasoned and just written funny.

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I’m not a theologian. I’ve never read it.

What does “magisterium of the laity” even mean?

AlexB23 said:

OSAS is a toxic belief. I prayed for the dead, even as a Protestant before 2022, and do so even more as a Catholic.

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Wonderful! Keep praying! God is faithful and will hear our prayers!

In that case, Surprised by Hope is probably your best starting point.

keras said:

Matthew 28:19-20 is perfectly clear: ....spread the Gospel until the end of time.
The end of time will actually be after the Millennium.

Adding a rapture removal to that, or to any scripture, is a serious matter; something that will count against you at the Judgment.

I have disproved the rapture to heaven theory many times; mainly with the fact that such a thing is never stated in scripture.
YOU can't disprove the Words of Jesus:

1/ John 3:13 No one has gone up into heaven, except the One who came down from heaven, the Son of Man.
Jesus is talking about the things of heaven, truths that apply forever.

2/ Revelation 2-3 Those who are victorious over Satan and who persevere until the end, will receive the crown of Life.
They are the people seen in Revelation 6:9-14. On earth, as proved by the first 3 verses of Revelation 7.

3/ John 7:33-34…I am going away to Him who sent Me and where I go, you cannot come.
A plain statement that also applies forever.

4/ John 8:21-23 Again He said: Where I go, you cannot come. You belong to this world below, I to the world above….
Our home is the earth, we are earth people and not spirits and even after the Millennium, those worthy will become immortal, but will still remain on earth. Revelation 21:1-4

5/ John 17:15 I do not pray that You take My people out of this world, but to keep them from the evil one.
Jesus was talking to God and what He asked applies to all Christians. Remember: we pray for God’s Kingdom to come on earth as it is in heaven and it will, with the New Jerusalem.

6/ Revelation 5:10 You have made them priests for our God and they shall reign on earth.
This refers to every faithful Christian, people from every tribe, race, nation and language, they shall reign on earth. That is our destiny, we never go to heaven, only our souls sleep under the Altar, if we are martyred. Revelation 6:9-11

That they can cry out at times, does not mean they are living people.
All scripture is as Written in the Revised English Bible.

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I said pick one to disprove. None of those disprove what will happen with 1 Th 4:16-17. They fit perfectly with Acts 1:11. No other verses fit perfectly with Acts 1:11. In Acts 1:9-10, Jesus ascended in the view of believers, only (His disciples). Jesus ascended into heavenly clouds, into Heaven. He was never in the view of unbelievers.

Acts 1:11 requires that Jesus must descend into the view of believers, only. He achieves that only in 1 Th 4:16–17. We are raptured up to Him in v17. The details from John 14:2-3 make it clear we are raptured to Heaven.

1 Cor 15:52 only applies to 1 Th 4:16-17.

1 Th 1:10, Ezekiel 14:21 and Rev 6:4 all combine to prove the pre-Trib timing for 1 Th 4:16-17.

Rev 6:10 proves only unbelievers are on the Earth, and that’s from the 4th seal. “Those that dwell on the Earth” during the Trib are proven to be only unbelievers.

Every saint in the Trib is a converted unbeliever who is martyred for their testimony of Jesus Christ. All such martyrs become the GM in Rev 6:9-11 and Rev 20:4. You can’t disprove there are two groups that make up the GM. Jesus says there will be two groups in Rev 6:12. Also, the fact of the first group destroys your very unsound theory that seals 1 - 5 are already open.

You can’t disprove the rapture because Acts 1:11 makes it the next prophesied event when Jesus next returns.

Ceallaigh said:

Is he still talking about how much he wants to punch Trump in the face?

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That’s assault. Not ok and very hypocritical of him.

Valletta said:

He is entitled to his opinion. But more importantly, the Biden campaign showed up there with Di Nero. The judge in the trial has refused to sequester the jury. So the jury now knows that Democrats and the President himself are fully behind the persecution of Trump. The Democrats keep publicly insisting the trial in not political. In my opinion the judge and all involved in this mockery of law should be prosecuted for election interference.

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I really have no opinion on Trump vs Biden.

There must be better candidate, and that’s coming from a conservative Republican perspective.

Teresa W. said:

Asking for prayer to find a suitable job. Because of my disabilities, I'm looking for a remote from home job.

I'm considering medical transcription. A friend of mine is going to try to contact someone they know who is in the medical field about how I could get hired by a company who would pay for the course/certification, because I can't afford to do that on my own.

If that falls through, then something like that would be good. Where I can work on my own and not have to use the phone. Thanks.

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Hello sister. I pray that you find a job that is suitable for you, and is from home, in the name of Jesus.

Paidiske said:

I think, Riley, it might depend on why you're interested in him in the first place. Was there something in particular that drew you to ask?

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His scholarship and his views on the afterlife.

I also really love Scripture.

GodJesusAndChocolate said:

I wish we could have a CF meetup!! ^w^ =3

View attachment 348791View attachment 348792

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You, Miss Multi, and myself should meet up especially, as this realm's only knights and all.

durangodawood said:

This is argument by attitude.

It fails to address what the data is telling us about current conditions.

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Nonsense, I have addressed it over and over, but you can't break the programming. Those who worship at the temples of climate change will not risk studying the history of it. They will not even be able to discern what I am saying.

AV1611VET said:

According to evolution, we are considered "great apes."

And for the record, what was the Scopes Monkey Trial all about then?

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We are primates, yes. It’s just words. Humans are made in the image of God. Apes are not.

Bradskii said:

I don't think it's filtered down to some of the laity.

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Unfortunately, you’re right. Most laity don’t know what the Church teaches…..but that’s a different story

rambot said:

My emphasis. That seems like a knee jerk, ill thought out response becaues it's ridiculously false.
Look at when CO2 started to increase: It was when humans started burning coal.....started driving cars.

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Of course, you do. But you're mistaken; carbon has been increasing in the atmosphere for the last 800,000 years Before that it decreased. You are stuck on humans to the exclusion of all other contributing factors. And you are under the illusion that the world will come together to solve this problem.

rambot said:

Re: Volcanos. The entire volcano output is 1/60s of Man's output when you compare yearly averages of both so. Try again?

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You are stuck looking at the small picture. Throughout the earth's history, it has been volcanoes, hands down.

rambot said:

Oh, you mean Pangea? When was it also at the equator? I'm not surprised. And what bearing does that have on humanity, 260 million years later, given the different circumstances for that temperature change?

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You need to gain a bit more education on this matter. It’s fascinating! Approximately 90 million years ago, during the mid-Cretaceous Period, Antarctica was home to a lush rainforest. This ancient forest flourished within about 1,000 kilometers of the South Pole, which is quite remarkable!

rambot said:

Did you forget the ozone hole? That was exclusively the fault of humans.

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While human-made chemicals are the primary cause, natural processes also contribute to ozone layer fluctuations. These include:
Volcanoes can inject large quantities of particles and gases into the stratosphere, which can have short-term effects on ozone levels.
Changes in solar radiation can influence ozone creation and destruction cycles.

rambot said:

If that was the case, there would be no


Depends on how you define "alarmists". The ocean levels ARE rising; that can't be denied. The ocean levels have not risen 4 ft in 20 years, that's true. I mean, I've heard some claims that I have thought were ridiculous for sure.

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About 9 inches in the last 140 years. It rose significantly more when the sea covered the land bridge from Russia to Alaska.

rambot said:

What does this mean? What would be a circumstance you think we couldn't predict it?


Yeah. There are a lot of people who are very worried about their future for sure. Do I think it is dire for them? Maybe. But would bet it will be dire for their children (those who have them).

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No, the planet will survive, and humans will do what they always do: adapt.

rambot said:

Mercy, you've demonstrated 0 understanding of any of the science related to this topic so I'm not overly worried about your labels.

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I have exhibited far superior knowledge to what you post. It is just that much of it can not pierce your programming.

rambot said:

SQUIRREL!

Let's try that again.
CO2 molecules trap heat in their bonds.
Either DENY that as BAD science, or accept it.

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They absorb photons, releasing some back to Earth and some to outer space. However, as the CO2 in the atmosphere increases, so does the biosphere, which converts CO2 back to carbon and oxygen.

rambot said:

Nonsequitor.
I asked if you agreed the BASIC premises that climate change and global warming are build on. One of those is the KNOWLEDGE that CO2 bonds trap heat in them.
It's a simple agree or disagree situation.

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The trap photons. Water vapor is a much more potent greenhouse gas.

rambot said:

Ok. It sounds to me like you agree with this one. I'm looking forward to a thought filled critique.

It is not an incomplete statement. Don't lie. It's the basic premise. I'm not even blaming it on humans. But the idea that the gases are NOT increasing is simply wrong.

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Who said they weren't? But who says they will continue to increase at a steady state?

rambot said:

FINALLY! And here i've been reading science research when I should have just come to CF!


Pssssst! I think you need a source for that. I haven't seen anything that specifically and explicitly states what you say (I've seen we have the highest levels of CO2 in our atmosphere in 800,000 years, but nothing about "upper" and nothing about "increased unprecedentedly")

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No, not even close. From the Smithsonian on the earth's early atmosphere: "It included hydrogen sulfide, methane, and ten to 200 times as much carbon dioxide as today’s atmosphere."

rambot said:

I mean, presumably you know none of this (since you don't share anything of import):
1) Which level of the atmosphere specifically
2) What impact does it ACTUALLY have?
3) Where does the CO2 come from?
4) How did it get there?
5) How does/Why does it stay there?

You just kinda dropped something YOU seem to feel is a single sentence that, on it's own, is able to dismantle all of the AGW worry. But you don't actually do anything to support your point, nor (it seems) have you made the correct point to begin with.

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Have you heard of Google? Yes? Then use it.

rambot said:

Also, the ONLY reason CO2 is a problem in the UPPER atmosphere is because of the SAME characteristics that make it a problem in the LOWER atmosphere.

But you don't even know the implications of that CO2. It's a Dunning Kruger writ large. You are throwing away ALL of AGW, despite the fact that 0 scientists are doing so, all because you heard a single scientific fact.

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No, I have heard the BS about climate change probably before you got out of diapers. Climate change happens. It always has, and it always will. Are you a believer in the bible? What does that have to say about seed time and harvest?

rambot said:

It isn't going to happen because it means nothing actually.

Yes. BEFORE plants even existed. Perhaps you'd feel better living in a world with those conditions but humanity as a whole, does not.

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No one knows what the conditions will be like. Meteorologists can't even get predictions that are correct day to day.

Read your history on this. Go ahead and study it out and see how wrong these predictions have been. But that doesn't matter because it has become the religion of the new atheists.

rambot said:

It will look that way if you don't understand the issue, for sure.

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You are way too [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], sure.