Genesis 1-3 Timeline Challenge: Can You Resolve the Alleged Contradictions?

[BobRyan]

The is the real end of Gen 1

Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven

And obviously - there were no chapter divisions or verses in the manuscripts written or copied until many centuries later. So I am talking about the artificial inserts/division added later when I point out that the break should have been after vs 4.

 

[Sabertooth]

You believe Adam and his Wife had reproductive organs before the Fall?

That would mean they would be having sex and procreating while eating of the Tree of Life.

Yes.
GEN. 1:27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him;

male and female He created them.​

28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them (on the day of their creation),
“Be fruitful and multiply;
fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion

over the fish of the sea,​

over the birds of the air, and​

over every living thing that moves on the earth.”​

How would the babies age if they ate of the Tree?

No children were even conceived before the Fall. That strongly suggests that she had not ovulated yet.

 

[Qubit]

Genesis 2:4 is not referencing a 24 hour day.

Then you already failed the challenge on the first verse presented in the OP.

 

[Qubit]

...Earth already exists on day 1 and day 2.

Earth was without form (two-dimensional plan/concept) and void (no volume) at that point.

Our universe did not even exist on the First Day. Regardless, the Heaven/Earth creation process was completed on the Third Day.

The text does not say "let Earth exist" -- it says let the waters be gathered so that dry land appears. That happens in a single day.

Hence, only the Heavens and Earth were finished on the Third Day, which is what Genesis 2:4 teaches.

I see you ignored the next verse...

Genesis 2:5 (New Living Translation)
"Neither wild plants nor grains were growing on the earth. For the LORD God had not yet sent rain to water the earth, and there were no people to cultivate the soil."

No wild plants or grains existing is confirmation that the text is describing the Third Day. God then makes the First Adam...

Genesis 2:7
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

I.e., Man created *before* plants. How can that happen on the Sixth Day?

 

[Qubit]

Easy. It is because each of the animals has a mate -- Adam does not until God makes Eve.

So, according to you, God was not making a 'helper'...

Genesis 2:18
"And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him."

God was making animals for Adam to mate with?

after animals - see Genesis 1.

Then you are in contradiction.

Genesis 2 clearly teaches that animals were made after Adam...

Genesis 2:19
"And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."

Why does Adam exist before animals?

 

[Qubit]

No children were even conceived before the Fall. That strongly suggests that she had not ovulated yet.

I do not believe that you understand my questions. I will put it another way...

What exactly is the Tree of Life for?

If the Tree of Life is to prevent aging, then we have a big problem. It would mean that God lied...

1 Corinthians 15:54
"So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

• Death is *not* swallowed up in victory.
• Mortal does *not* put on immortality.

Having to constantly eat of the Tree of Life to prevent death, means that death still exists. It means aging exists as well. If someone decides not to eat, they will die. Think of the trillions of Angels constantly lined up to partake of that one little tree in order to survive.

Here is another problem...

If Adam and his Wife 'began to age' after being denied the Tree of Life, then that means that the couple were created with corrupt bodies to begin with. In other words, God lied once again by claiming that death entered *after* the Fall...

Romans 5:12
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned"

Obviously, the Tree of Life has a very special purpose. I will hold off on what that is for now.

 

[Qubit]

Looks like everyone posting so far agrees with Satan...

Genesis 3:4
"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die"

I guess I am the only Christian here that believes Satan lied and God told the Truth.

Even Wikipedia states that 'spiritual death' (whatever that means) is a bunch of nonsense that the Church made up...

"The phrase spiritual death is not found in Protestant scriptures, and definitions of the concept thus vary among Protestant Christians."

Of course the definitions vary. Coming up with clever lies to deceive the masses can be challenging.

 

[Sabertooth]

What exactly is the Tree of Life for?

We cannot be certain of the details (at least, not until 1 John 3:2 ).

If the Tree of Life is to prevent aging, then we have a big problem. It would mean that God lied...

That is a mighty big "if."
If Adam & Eve would have fulfilled "Be fruitful and multiply" without the Fall, all subsequent humans would still have to mature from embryo to adulthood. (To suggest otherwise would be ludicrous.)
It is just the decay of old age that is an artifact of Original Sin (from an aging perspective).

 

[Aviel]

How can Adam be alone if he is surrounded by animals?

A pet can never be your Mate.

So, the context of God's statement is... you have pets but you have no Mate.

Your barnyard is filled but you have no Wife.

The Russian's have a wonderful understanding of this, that is much better then how this is described in America

In America, your mate is your "better half"... which is not necessarily true.

Russins define it as your 2nd half, or in other words, what "completes you".

 

[BobRyan]

Here is one of the many problems you folks will run into with your interpretations...

Genesis 2:18
"And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him."

How can Adam be alone if he is surrounded by animals?

Easy. It is because each of the animals has a mate -- Adam does not until God makes Eve.

That is something you folks are unable to answer.

whahhuh???

So, according to you, God was not making a 'helper'...

According to "the text" God said "I will make..." after first saying that Adam had no other one with him - no human mate with him.

Genesis 2:19
"And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."

Why does Adam exist before animals?

Gen 2 is not a time-boxed sequence , Gen 1:2 - 2:4 is.

So then no air, no sun, no water, no fish etc in Gen 2. As already noted. It is an addition to the existing creation account in 1:2 -- 2:4.

Your "delete and start over" idea does not fit the text of scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

Looks like everyone posting so far agrees with Satan...

Pointing to flaws in your claims - is not the same as "agreeing with Satan"

Genesis 3:4
"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die"

I guess I am the only Christian here that believes Satan lied and God told the Truth.

Not true.

 

[Qubit]

If Adam & Eve would have fulfilled "Be fruitful and multiply" without the Fall, all subsequent humans would still have to mature from embryo to adulthood. (To suggest otherwise would be ludicrous.)

You are still not understanding the OP (which is OK, the indoctrination took me a long time to overcome).

The 'be fruitful and multiply' command was never given to the First Adam and the Woman Ishshah. They did not have reproductive organs. They were to help God create life via the dust of the ground and ribs. They are the ones who died after partaking of the Forbidden Fruit.

The command was given to the Second Adam and the newly created Eve who were created *with* reproductive organs.

The verses after Genesis 3:6 are all about how God resurrected the First Adam and the Woman Ishshah, and then proceeded to give them new bodies of corruption, i.e., with reproductive organs.

This is God creating Conception for the first time...

Genesis 3:16
"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

It is a curse!

The entire point of Jesus being crucified is about reversing what the Forbidden Fruit Zygote did.

 

[Qubit]

A pet can never be your Mate.

God did not make pets as far as I can see in the text.

So, the context of God's statement is... you have pets but you have no Mate.

No. The context is that God made Man before plants and before animals, contrary to Genesis 1.

So far, no one (except me) has an explanation as to why that is.

Your barnyard is filled but you have no Wife.

Are you suggesting that God made additional animals after he made Man, and that these were 'farm animals'?

 

[Qubit]

Your "delete and start over" idea does not fit the text of scripture.

You clearly do not understand the OP.

 

[Qubit]

Here is a summary of alterations to the Word of God so that it fits the False Narrative of the modern-day Church.

Genesis 2:4: Change 'day' into 'six days'.

Genesis 2:5: Change 'no plants existed yet' to 'plants existed'.

Genesis 2:8: Change 'planted' to 'planted *before* Man was created'.

Genesis 2:9: Change 'made every tree' to 'made every tree *before* Man was created'.

Genesis 2:17: Change 'surely die' to 'not surely die'.

Genesis 2:18: Change 'alone' to 'not alone' and change 'helper' to 'animal to have sex with'.

Genesis 2:19: Change 'formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air' to 'formed pets'.

Genesis 2:22: Change 'made he a woman' to 'made he an Eve'.

Genesis 2:23: Change 'she shall be called Woman' to 'she shall be called Eve'.

Genesis 3:12: Change 'woman' to 'Eve'.

Genesis 3:13: Change 'woman' to 'Eve'.

Genesis 3:16: Change 'woman' to 'Eve'.

Genesis 3:20: Change 'Adam called his wife’s name Eve' to 'Eve was already named Eve in Genesis 2:22, nothing to see here'.

Wow! That is an insane number of alterations. Talk about heresy!

I am sure I missed plenty more lies that Christians tell everyone.

Too bad nobody cares.

 

[BobRyan]

Here is a summary of alterations to the Word of God so that it fits the False Narrative of the modern-day Church.

Genesis 2:4: Change 'day' into 'six days'.

Or leave it as it is - and admit to all the other times in scripture where "in the day of" or "in that day" refers to one 24 hour day AS CONTRASTED to "evening and morning" which is always "one day" just as Ex 20 points out in vs 8-11.

I choose to go with the obvious.

Genesis 2:5: Change 'no plants existed yet' to 'plants existed'.

Or in your case - change no Atmosphere mentioned - to atmosphere mentioned.
Change no seas/no oceans - to seas and oceans inserted into Gen 2.
Change no fish no birds -- to fish and birds inserted into Gen 2.
...

 

[BobRyan]

Here is one of the many problems you folks will run into with your interpretations...

Genesis 2:18
"And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him."

How can Adam be alone if he is surrounded by animals?

alone as in - no other human.

How is the "obvious" not obvious in your POV??

Interesting that the Creation account in Ex 20:8-11 "in legal code" does NOT treat Gen 2 like it is a "new , different, replacement" account - rather it treats Gen 1-2:4 as the actual account and Gen 2:5-end as the supplemental detail added to the previously given account. (i.e. the obvious)

Ex 20

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

 

[BobRyan]

Earth was without form (two-dimensional plan/concept) and void (no volume) at that point.

Our universe did not even exist on the First Day.

not true.

Gen 1:

SUMMARY FOR ALL of the created Universe.
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Summary for the START conditions - for Earth's day -1
2 And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

ALL 6 working days begin with "THEN GOD SAID"

3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

6 Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 God made the expanse, and separated the waters that were below the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse; and it was so. 8 God called the expanse “heaven.” And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

 

[Sabertooth]

The 'be fruitful and multiply' command was never given to the First Adam and the Woman Ishshah. They did not have reproductive organs. They were to help God create life via the dust of the ground and ribs. They are the ones who died after partaking of the Forbidden Fruit.

That view is an extra-Biblical construct, at least, when considering just Genesis chapters 1 & 2.
I have no obligation to integrate it into my proto-cosmology...

That said, I do believe in a (dormant) Gap, but that occurred before there was

• light with which to see [Day 1],
• air to breathe [Day 2] or
• dry land to live on [Day 3].

 

[Qubit]

Gen 1:

SUMMARY FOR ALL of the created Universe.
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Your translation contains an error. God did not create all three Heavens in Genesis 1:1. To teach that is to teach a serious contradiction.

Note that 'Heavens' in Hebrew is always written in plural (plurale tantum), however it can mean singular depending on the context...

The Hebrew word שָׁמַיִם šāmayīm "heavens" is pluralized from Proto-Semitic *šamāy-. This renders שָׁמַיִם šāmayīm a plurale tantum, simultaneously singular and plural. Therefore, "heaven" and "heavens" may both be legitimate translations as determined by context.

Heaven in Judaism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The context calls for 'shamayim' to be translated singular. The KJV got it right...

Genesis 1:1
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

Thus, God created the First Heaven (Heaven of Heavens) on Day One...

Nehemiah 9:6
"Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee."

The First Heaven is the Spirit Realm that exists outside of our universe. God needed to create the Heaven of Heavens first, before creating the universe. Note that God exists outside of the Three Heavens.

The meaning of 'without form and void' is simple. It is a two-dimensional circle on a flat plane similar to what an architect draws on a blueprint. Earth is simply a 'napkin sketch' idea at this point in time. Nothing physical has been made yet. Here is the verse explaining it...

Proverbs 8:27
"When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth"

The 'face of the depth' (the 'napkin' that the 'sketch' is drawn on) is what Science calls either a Brane or perhaps a Worldsheet...

​

Brane - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In my opinion, Worldsheet is a better match for this original 'face of the Waters'. The reason is because the Worldsheet is divided to create a three-dimensional volume (World Volume). The Bible calls the World Volume the 'Firmament'...

Genesis 1:6-7
"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so."

In other words:

• The Point creates a Line
• The Line creates a Worldsheet
• The Worldsheet creates a Volume

The Firmament is basically the three-dimensional realm we exist in currently. The 'Waters under the Firmament' is the Underworld, Sheol, Abyss, etc. It separates 2D from 3D. The 'Waters above the firmament' is the Sea of Glass. It separates 3D from 4D...

Psalms 148:4
"Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens."

Summary for the START conditions - for Earth's day -1
2 And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

See what I wrote above. The 'Waters' was *not* Earth's oceans as so many wrongly presume. It is this...

In the Bible, the abyss is an unfathomably deep or boundless place. The term comes from the Greek word abyssos (Ancient Greek: ἄβῠσσος, romanized: ábussos), meaning "bottomless, unfathomable, boundless".

Abyss (religion) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

ALL 6 working days begin with "THEN GOD SAID"

Incorrect.

1. The First Heaven was created on the First Day.
2. The Second Heaven was created on the Second Day.
3. The Third Heaven was created on the Third Day.

3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

Yes. The 'Light' was not the so called 'Big Bang'. Again, the universe did not exist at that point.

God was the Light. Wisdom was the Light. Etc.

6 Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 God made the expanse, and separated the waters that were below the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse; and it was so. 8 God called the expanse “heaven.” And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

See what I wrote above. Here is a basic illustration...