Genesis 1-3 Timeline Challenge: Can You Resolve the Alleged Contradictions?

Qubit

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I am putting forth a challenge. See if you can make the Genesis 1 through Genesis 3 timelines agree with each other and not contradict as Wikipedia (and other sources) claim.

According to Wikipedia, Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 contradict one another:

“The overlapping stories of Genesis 1 and 2 are contradictory but also complementary, with the first (the Priestly story) concerned with the creation of the entire cosmos while the second (the Jahwist story) focuses on man as moral agent and cultivator of his environment.”

Even the order and method of creation differs.”



Did God make mistakes? If you agree with Wikipedia, let us know why.

Basic Rules:
  • You are not allowed to take away from and/or add words to the verses.
  • Use any translation you wish (mix and match is OK).
  • The word ‘day’ must be interpreted as twenty-four hours or less.
  • The interpretation of the phrase ‘surely die’ must be consistent with its usage elsewhere in the Bible.
  • Use as many or as few verses as needed.
  • Your interpretation must not contradict either Old Testament or New Testament.
I will submit my entry in the next post.
 

Qubit

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My Submission to the Challenge:

Genesis 2:4 (KJV)
“These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens”


Commentary:
The verse begins a series of ‘recaps’ of Genesis 1 with additional details being added. The focus here is on the Third Day, when the Heavens and Earth were completed and ready for its first form of life.

Genesis 2:5 (New Living Translation)
"Neither wild plants nor grains were growing on the earth. For the LORD God had not yet sent rain to water the earth, and there were no people to cultivate the soil."


Commentary:
We have confirmation that the previous verse is focusing in on the Third Day. Moreover, we are at the moment of time when no plants, and therefore no life, existed.

What was the first form of life created on the Third Day?

Genesis 2:7 (KJV)
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."


Commentary:
As we can clearly see, we have an issue. Christians are told that Man was originally created on the Sixth Day. According to the Bible however, Man was originally created on the Third Day. Who is correct? Does the dogma of the Church get to overrule what is written? Heaven forbid.

For clarity, I will refer to this being as the ‘First Adam’. Note that Jesus is the ‘Last Adam’ who rose on the Third Day. Perfect! Scripture is aligning with Scripture. Continuing on, we find that the very next verse aligns with Plants being made next on the Third Day…

Genesis 2:8
"And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed."


Commentary:
According to the verse, Man was already formed before the Plants, obviously. Interestingly, God started with a Garden first, rather than filling the entire planet with plant life. This makes sense from a geoengineering perspective. Start small, then work your way up.

Genesis 2:9
"And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil."


Commentary:
God begins to make Trees. They are pleasing to the eye and good for food. We are obviously still on the Third Day.

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."


Commentary:
Continuing within the Third Day, God gives a strict command to the First Adam to not partake of the Forbidden Fruit or else he will die on that very day. Note that there is nothing here to suggest that the First Adam would ‘die spiritually’ or ‘begin to die’ or ‘be separated from God’, etc. Those are false Church dogmas inserted into the text. Now, since no Animals have been created yet, the First Adam is truly all alone. No problem, God has a solution…

Genesis 2:18
"And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him."


Commentary:
The verse above makes it clear that the First Adam was alone because no Animals were created yet.

Genesis 2:19 (New Heart English Bible)
And out of the ground God formed every tame animal, and every wild animal, and every flying creature of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.


Commentary:
The timeline jumps to the Fifth Day (creation of flying creatures) and then to the Sixth Day (creation of tame and wild Animals). Note that something very important just occurred. A Law was made. Did you catch it? Whenever God creates a living being, Adam must name it. Moreover, whatever Adam ‘calls’ the newly formed being, that was its name.

Genesis 2:22
"And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man."


Commentary:
Because the Animals were not sufficient help, God creates a new being called ‘Ishshah’. Most Bibles translate this word as ‘Woman’. Note that this is not Eve! Nowhere does the name Eve show up until after the Fall. Now, according to the Law, Adam must name this newly created being…

Genesis 2:23 (KJV)
"And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."


Commentary:
Adam ‘calls’ the new being ‘Ishshah’, thus that was her name. Again, it was not Eve. Note that Ishshah was named by the method by which she was created. This is a common theme in the Bible. Jacob was the 'heal grabber' etc. Eve was created by a different method, and thus as we will soon see, was consequently named per said method.

And so it was, when the First Adam, along with his Wife Ishshah, partook of the Forbidden Fruit, they died on that very day. Not only did they die the First Death, but they also died the Second Death…

Genesis 3:6 (KJV)
"And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."


The phrase ‘surely die’ means ‘dying ye shall die’ or ‘dying the First Death, ye shall die the Second Death’. And that is precisely what happened, all within the Sixth Day. The couple became dust of the ground.

Here is a study on what the phrase ‘surely die’ means…


And finally, Scripture gives us a foreshadow of the Resurrection of Damnation…

Genesis 3:7 (KJV)
"And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons."


Because the couple became dust of the ground, God had to resurrect them. Note that this was not the Resurrection of Glory, but rather the Resurrection of Damnation. Their eyes were opened because the dead are asleep and must be awakened. Did God lie? Of course not. Did the Word of God contradict? No. God then proceeded to recreate the couple as per Genesis 1:27…

Genesis 1:27 (KJV)
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


As mentioned previously, a new method of creation requires a new name...

Genesis 3:20
"And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living."


Again, according to the Law, every time God creates something new, Adam must name it. And of course, for obvious reasons, the couple had to be given a new Covering of skin and flesh as part of the Resurrection process…

Job 10:11
“Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews.”


No, God did not ‘kill and animal’ and dress them like the Flintstones.

And there we have it. Wikipedia and all the other false teachers out there have been thoroughly debunked.
 
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Sabertooth

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Since Genesis 2:7 details the creation of Man/Adam and Genesis 2:22 details the creation of Woman/Eve, Genesis 2:4-25 must be an elaboration of Day 6 [Genesis 1:26-28]. (It fits, if you frame it that way.)
 
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RandyPNW

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I am putting forth a challenge. See if you can make the Genesis 1 through Genesis 3 timelines agree with each other and not contradict as Wikipedia (and other sources) claim.

According to Wikipedia, Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 contradict one another:

“The overlapping stories of Genesis 1 and 2 are contradictory but also complementary, with the first (the Priestly story) concerned with the creation of the entire cosmos while the second (the Jahwist story) focuses on man as moral agent and cultivator of his environment.”

Even the order and method of creation differs.”



Did God make mistakes? If you agree with Wikipedia, let us know why.

Basic Rules:
  • You are not allowed to take away from and/or add words to the verses.
  • Use any translation you wish (mix and match is OK).
  • The word ‘day’ must be interpreted as twenty-four hours or less.
  • The interpretation of the phrase ‘surely die’ must be consistent with its usage elsewhere in the Bible.
  • Use as many or as few verses as needed.
  • Your interpretation must not contradict either Old Testament or New Testament.
I will submit my entry in the next post.
The rules are unreasonable and wish to prevent, in advance, any claim that a "day" may be interpreted more flexibly. That would then influence "surely die."
 
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Sabertooth

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Further, God told a perfectly healthy First Couple to "be fruitful and multiply" [Gen. 1:28], but she did not conceive until after the Fall.
If God did not hinder her pregnancy (a contradiction to His blessing/command), it means that they fell before her first ovulation (which is necessary for a healthy woman to get pregnant). That is around a month in modern women.
 
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hislegacy

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The word ‘day’ must be interpreted as twenty-four hours or less.
Why?

Gen 1:3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

Days existed on the first day -

Gen 1:Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

The Earth revolving to face the sun every 24 hours did not happen until the fourth day. How do you know unequivocally the first four days - were 24 hours?
 
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Qubit

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Hi @RandyPNW . Thanks for visiting and commenting.

The rules are unreasonable...

I disagree. We are not to take away or add to the Word of God...

Revelation 22:18-19
"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."


The challenge is to see if anyone can follow the rules laid out by Scripture.

...and wish to prevent, in advance, any claim that a "day" may be interpreted more flexibly.

In other words, the rules make it difficult for folks to cheat and force the text into saying something it does not. :)

That would then influence "surely die."

In other words, the phrase 'surely die' becomes as literal and consistent as with every other instance and usage in the Bible. :)
 
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Qubit

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Further, God told a perfectly healthy First Couple to "be fruitful and multiply" [Gen. 1:28], but she did not conceive until after the Fall.
If God did not hinder her pregnancy (a contradiction to His blessing/command), it means that they fell before her first ovulation (which is necessary for a healthy woman to get pregnant). That is around a month in modern women.

You believe Adam and his Wife had reproductive organs before the Fall?

That would mean they would be having sex and procreating while eating of the Tree of Life.

How would the babies age if they ate of the Tree?

Is that what happens in the New Jerusalem? People making babies in Heaven? I thought everyone was a Son of God?

Speaking of Ovulation, the Tree of Life has a monthly period...

Revelation 22:2
"In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."


So that is what the Fruit is. The Mystery is finally solved. :)
 
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Qubit

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Hi @hislegacy . Good questions.


God forbids taking away and/or adding to the Word. Unless there is something obvious in the text to change day into something else, then we must let the standard definition apply...

John 11:9
"Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world."


The Earth revolving to face the sun every 24 hours did not happen until the fourth day.

Whether that is true or not has nothing to do with God establishing what a day means before Earth was created.

How do you know unequivocally the first four days - were 24 hours?

Unless you can show a verse stating that the word 'day' in Genesis means a longer period of time, then the standard definition applies.

Note that the KJV for example has 2,619 instances of the word 'day' or 'days' in it. Are we to change them all? Or do we just change the ones that do not fit with pre-conceived notions of what God 'should have said'?

The question we should ask is why are folks changing the word 'day' into something else when there is no need to? Is there an agenda here?
 
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hislegacy

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God forbids taking away and/or adding to the Word. Unless there is something obvious in the text to change day into something else, then we must let the standard definition apply...

John 11:9
"Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world."
Is it 12 as the scripture you quoted plainly states or 24? I cannot seem to find the verses that mention twenty four hours. Remember God forbids taking away and/or adding to the Word.
 
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BobRyan

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I am putting forth a challenge. See if you can make the Genesis 1 through Genesis 3 timelines agree with each other and not contradict as Wikipedia (and other sources) claim.

According to Wikipedia, Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 contradict one another:

“The overlapping stories of Genesis 1 and 2 are contradictory but also complementary, with the first (the Priestly story) concerned with the creation of the entire cosmos while the second (the Jahwist story) focuses on man as moral agent and cultivator of his environment.”

Even the order and method of creation differs.”



Did God make mistakes? If you agree with Wikipedia, let us know why.

Basic Rules:
  • You are not allowed to take away from and/or add words to the verses.
  • Use any translation you wish (mix and match is OK).
  • The word ‘day’ must be interpreted as twenty-four hours or less.
  • The interpretation of the phrase ‘surely die’ must be consistent with its usage elsewhere in the Bible.
  • Use as many or as few verses as needed.
  • Your interpretation must not contradict either Old Testament or New Testament.
I will submit my entry in the next post.
Gen 1-2:3 is a "time boxed chronological sequence"

Gen 2:4 - end of chapter is not such a sequence. Genesis 2 is given without any reference to even one day of the week after vs 3 (which should have been left in chapter 1 ) - much less seven days. It provides details that the reader must insert into the already given time-boxed sequence of Rev 1 based on the events that take place.

They are NOT -- "two time boxed 7 day chronologies that do not agree with each other".
 
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BobRyan

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God forbids taking away and/or adding to the Word. Unless there is something obvious in the text to change day into something else, then we must let the standard definition apply...
Gen 1 "evening and morning were the first day".

In the Bible a day is one rotation of the Earth "from evening to evening shall you celebrate your Sabbaths" Lev 23:32 --- Same author, same audience.
John 11:9
"Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world."




Whether that is true or not has nothing to do with God establishing what a day means before Earth was created.
Since we have the same reference to all 7 days and we know that this also held true at Sinai in Ex 20 speaking of both the 7 day week in Genesis 1 and the 7 day week at Sinai -- it is irrefutably a seven day week.

Ex 20:10 "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD... six days you shall labor

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Unless you can show a verse stating that the word 'day' in Genesis means a longer period of time, then the standard definition applies.
true.

A single rotation, sunset to sunset where a new day begins at each evening.
 
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Qubit

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Is it 12 as the scripture you quoted plainly states or 24? I cannot seem to find the verses that mention twenty four hours. Remember God forbids taking away and/or adding to the Word.

Twelve hours of daylight and twelve hours of night...

John 11:9 (New Living Translation)
Jesus replied, “There are twelve hours of daylight every day. During the day people can walk safely. They can see because they have the light of this world.
 
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Thanks for visiting and commenting @BobRyan .

Genesis 2 is given without any reference to even one day of the week after vs 3 (which should have been left in chapter 1 ) - much less seven days.

Scripture disagrees with your statement. The Third Day is clearly referenced here...

Genesis 2:4
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens"


Earth and the Heavens were completed on the Third Day...

Genesis 1:9-10
"And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:13
"And the evening and the morning were the third day."


Note that Genesis 2:4 does *not* state the following...

Genesis 2:4
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth [and the trees, and the plants, and the fish, and the birds, and creeping things, etc.] when they were created, in the [days] that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, [and the trees, and the plants, and the fish, and the birds, and creeping things, etc.]"


Look at how much is presumed. The fact that Genesis 2:4 clearly states 'day' as singular, and not plural, should not be ignored.

Here is an interesting commentary...

The point of departure in this subsequent evolution of the material heavens and earth is further specified as being in the day that the Lord God (Jehovah Elohim) made the earth and the heavens; not the heavens and the earth, which would have signified the universe (cf. on Genesis 1:1), and carried hack the writer s thought to the initial act of creation; but the earth and the atmospheric firmament, which indicates the period embracing the second and (possibly) the third creative days as the terminus aguo of the generations to be forthwith recorded.


It provides details that the reader must insert into the already given time-boxed sequence of Rev 1 based on the events that take place.

Agreed.

They are NOT -- "two time boxed 7 day chronologies that do not agree with each other".

Unless you can prove that what you state is true, many Scholars disagree with you.

Going verse by verse with commentary is the only way to do it.
 
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Qubit

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Here is one of the many problems you folks will run into with your interpretations...

Genesis 2:18
"And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him."


How can Adam be alone if he is surrounded by animals? That is something you folks are unable to answer.

Moreover, you teach that the solution to Adam being alone, while surrounded by animals, is for God to create animals...

Genesis 2:19
"And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."


That is ridiculous. Why do you teach such nonsense?

And if that were not crazy enough, you also teach that Man was created *after* animals in Genesis 1, but then you teach that Man was created *before* animals in Genesis 2.

Which is it? Was Man created before or after animals?

I submit to everyone here that I am the only person on the planet that has ever resolved Gen 1, 2 and 3 without altering the text. :p
 
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hislegacy

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How can Adam be alone if he is surrounded by animals? That is something you folks are unable to answer.
The same way I was alone this morning. Just me and my dog.
I submit to everyone here that I am the only person on the planet that has ever resolved Gen 1, 2 and 3 without altering the text. :p
Well there is no way to argue with that much ego.
 
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BobRyan

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Thanks for visiting and commenting @BobRyan .



Scripture disagrees with your statement. The Third Day is clearly referenced here...

Genesis 2:4
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens"
Genesis 2:4 is not referencing a 24 hour day. It is like saying "the day of the Lord" . There are many text that talk about "in the day that" where it is not a reference to a single evening and morning.

Isaiah 11: There will be a highway for the remnant of His people Who will be left from Assyria, As it was for Israel In the day that he came up from the land of Egypt.

The event of coming of Egypt - last a lot longer than a single day.

Isaiah 30:6
Moreover the light of the moon will be as the light of the sun, And the light of the sun will be sevenfold, As the light of seven days, In the day that the Lord binds up the bruise of His people And heals the stroke of their wound.

Also not a reference to a single day event. It starts on a day but does not end in a single day

Jeremiah 7:
Jeremiah 7:22

For I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices.

Also not a reference to a single day event. It starts on a day but does not end in that day.

By contrast all the days of Gen 1:2-2:3 are single 24 hour days - evening and morning as Ex 20:11 points out.

Earth and the Heavens were completed on the Third Day...

Genesis 1:9-10
"And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and
let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:13
"And the evening and the morning were the third day."
Dry land appeared in one day in Genesis 1:9-13 - but Earth had no life on it and Earth already exists on day 1 and day 2.

The text does not say "let Earth exist" -- it says let the waters be gathered so that dry land appears. That happens in a single day.

Genesis 2 has no waters, it makes no distinction between Earth with no land mass showing or Earth covered by waters. It has no moon, no sun, no stars, no fish, no atmosphere. That is because Gen 2 is not "another story" rather it is "more detail" to be added to the time boxed chronological sequence.
 
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Here is one of the many problems you folks will run into with your interpretations...

Genesis 2:18
"And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him."


How can Adam be alone if he is surrounded by animals?
Easy. It is because each of the animals has a mate -- Adam does not until God makes Eve.
That is something you folks are unable to answer.
whahhuh???
Moreover, you teach that the solution to Adam being alone, while surrounded by animals, is for God to create animals...
no we don't

Which is it? Was Man created before or after animals?
after animals - see Genesis 1.

Genesis 2 does not tell you about the Sun, Moon, or water, or seas or air. Because it is not a replacement for chapter 1, it is more details added to chapter one.

The idea of "deleting each chapter and starting over as you go chapter by chapter through a book of the Bible" never worked for any book of scripture.
 
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