'Humble Sinner' Bush Testifies to Power of Faith
- Thread starter StogusMaximus
- Start date
"Who are the lobbyists? Car and Oil companies. They have our congressmen and senaters by the throat. That is the reason all presidents have to be moderate. That is the reason that things change so slowly in a democracy. "
This is a major problem in Canadian and American politics. It costs millions to run for president. So, unless you're a billionaire like Ross Perot and can afford to essentially pay your own way, you need to find the money somewhere, and the only way to get that much money that fast is corporate endorsements. So from the get go, guess who has the most say in how the new president or prime minister runs the country? Corporations and big businesses.
This is a major problem in Canadian and American politics. It costs millions to run for president. So, unless you're a billionaire like Ross Perot and can afford to essentially pay your own way, you need to find the money somewhere, and the only way to get that much money that fast is corporate endorsements. So from the get go, guess who has the most say in how the new president or prime minister runs the country? Corporations and big businesses.
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coastie
Hallelujah Adonai Yeshua!
- Apr 6, 2002
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Absolutely, this is capitalism!
Capitalism may not be a perfect system, but considering the alternatives...
There are laws in place to protect the country from being completely run by businesses... that's why we have checks and balances, as well as individual state governments.
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Is showing respect for shomeone else's religious shrine automatically 'Shinto worship' ?
We don't know what was in his heart. He may have, in fact, been praying to his own God, Jesus Christ, while at this shrine.
I know, that's what I would be doing. And no. I don't think Jesus would take one bit of offense.
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It is a wonderful thing to be blessed with a President such as President Bush at such a time in the United States. As a USMC Vet I'm proud to have a leader with the character and integrity of President Bush. Those presently in the United States Armed Forces have a Commander In Chief that they can have confidence in as a man that is not a coward as was our last President. A draft dodger, womanizer and one who operated the Executive Branch of the goverment based on the latest polls. I pray that Mr.Clinton has repented of his ways and asked Jesus Christ to forgive him. I rarely accept as true any news reported by a liberal controlled media being reported by liberal mind set reporters and/or journalists.(including liberal mindset pastors and/or denominations)
I do not believe that President Bush was drunk and I
believe it is nothing but a feeble attempt to bring dishonor to a man that has had to face some of the most difficult times in this country's history.
If I was still active in the USMC I would proudly obey my Commander In Chief if it was President Bush. No man is perfect and politics is corrupt in nature. Considering those things I thank God that President Bush is the President of the United States.
James
GySgt
USMC 71-81
I do not believe that President Bush was drunk and I
believe it is nothing but a feeble attempt to bring dishonor to a man that has had to face some of the most difficult times in this country's history.
If I was still active in the USMC I would proudly obey my Commander In Chief if it was President Bush. No man is perfect and politics is corrupt in nature. Considering those things I thank God that President Bush is the President of the United States.
James
GySgt
USMC 71-81
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President Clinton was a very good president. not as good as the democrats say, but he deserves a helluva lot more credit than the republicans give him.
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Mr.Clinton was a disgrace to the office of the presidency.
He was a draft dodger. Men that I served with in Vietnam died in his place so he could protest the Vietnam War during his time at Oxford College, in England. Mr. Clinton lied under oath regarding his extra-marital affair with M.Lewisnky. President Clinton visted Vietnam just prior to his leaving office which was just further insult to injury to the men and women who served when called to duty by thier country.
A draft dodger, a perjurer, a womanizer throughout his entire political life and a man that surrounded himself with some of the weakest cabinet officials this country has known.
President Clinton was brought up on impeachment charges due to his perjury concerning his denial of his affair with M.Lewinski.
As I stated previously, I hope and pray that Mr.Clinton repents of his sins and asks Jesus Christ to forgive him.
I do not mean to sound harsh but I had a brother and an uncle that were killed in action while serving the United States in Vietnam. They didn't run when called, in fact they volunteerd for duty as I did myself.
Some Americans still believe in God and Country.
Pesident Clinton was a darling of the ultra-liberal left wing espicially the Hollywood crowd who shared his moral and value status.
President Clinton was also loved by the liberal media moguls that were sure not to have their liberal mindset reporters and journalists say anything too negative about their liberal in the Oval Office.
Just the opinions of an old Marine that served his country proudly during a time of war.
GySgt
James
He was a draft dodger. Men that I served with in Vietnam died in his place so he could protest the Vietnam War during his time at Oxford College, in England. Mr. Clinton lied under oath regarding his extra-marital affair with M.Lewisnky. President Clinton visted Vietnam just prior to his leaving office which was just further insult to injury to the men and women who served when called to duty by thier country.
A draft dodger, a perjurer, a womanizer throughout his entire political life and a man that surrounded himself with some of the weakest cabinet officials this country has known.
President Clinton was brought up on impeachment charges due to his perjury concerning his denial of his affair with M.Lewinski.
As I stated previously, I hope and pray that Mr.Clinton repents of his sins and asks Jesus Christ to forgive him.
I do not mean to sound harsh but I had a brother and an uncle that were killed in action while serving the United States in Vietnam. They didn't run when called, in fact they volunteerd for duty as I did myself.
Some Americans still believe in God and Country.
Pesident Clinton was a darling of the ultra-liberal left wing espicially the Hollywood crowd who shared his moral and value status.
President Clinton was also loved by the liberal media moguls that were sure not to have their liberal mindset reporters and journalists say anything too negative about their liberal in the Oval Office.
Just the opinions of an old Marine that served his country proudly during a time of war.
GySgt
James
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The Bill Clinton story is one of cowardice and deceit. . . of a 23-year-old man, not some terrified and confused 18-year-old boy manipulating the system to avoid his duty. One can read the level of his smug contempt for the military and those who served in his letter. We will never know which mother's son took his place on the battlefield and if he ever came home. Because we feel character does count we offer both pieces for you the readers. Incidentally, Clinton was never graduated from Oxford, yet he allows himself to be referred to, as a Rhodes scholar, giving the inference he'd graduated, just another glimpse at his lack of integrity. It was party time and anti-war demonstrations for Bill while at Oxford; then on to Moscow, a subject that remains a dark secret and may just involve his wartime service. . . but for which side?
When his undergraduate draft deferment ran out and he went off to Oxford he sought further protection from the draft by promising the ROTC Commandant at the University of Arkansas that he'd return in the fall of 1969 and enroll in ROTC.
He had already received and ignored a draft notice. An ROTC deferment was granted, yet it shouldn't have been because he wasn't enrolled, but Bill had connections with the powerful Sen. Fulbright of Arkansas. He mailed this letter to Col. Holmes, ROTC Commandant, after he was awarded a draft number that assured he wouldn't be called to serve.
Following is the text of the letter that Bill Clinton wrote to Col. Eugene Holmes, director to the ROTC program at the University of Arkansas on 3 Dec, 1969:
Dear Col. Holmes,
I'm sorry to be so long in writing. I know I promised to let you hear from me at least once a month, and from now on you will, but I have had some time to think about this first letter. Almost daily since my return to England I have thought about writing, about what I want to and ought to say.
First, I want to thank you, not just for saving me from the draft, but for being so kind and decent to me last summer, when I was as low as I have ever been. One thing which made the bond we struck in good faith somewhat palatable to me was, my high regard for you personally. In retrospect it seems that the admiration might not have been mutual had you known a little more about me, about my political beliefs and activities. At least you might have thought me more fit for the draft than for ROTC.
Let me try to explain. As you know I worked for two years in a very minor position on the State Foreign Relations Committee. I did it for the experience and the salary but also for the opportunity, however small, of working every day against a war I opposed and despised with a depth of feeling I had reserved solely for racism in America before Viet-Nam. I did not take the matter lightly but studied it carefully, and there was a time when not many people had more information about VietNam at hand than I did.
I have written and spoken and marched against the war. One of the national organizers of the VietNam Moratorium is close friend of mine. After I left Arkansas last summer, I went to Washington to work in the national headquarters of the Moratorium then to England to organize the Americans here for demonstrations 16 Oct and 16 Nov.
Interlocked with the war is the draft issue, which I did not begin to consider separately until early 1968. After a law seminar at Georgetown, I wrote a paper on the legal arguments for and against allowing, within the Selective Service System, the classification of selective conscientious objection, for those opposed to participation in a particular war, not simply to "participation in war in any form."
From my work I came to believe that the draft system itself is illegitimate. No government really rooted in limited parliamentary democracy should have the power to make its citizens fight and kill and die in a war they may oppose, a war which even possibly may be wrong, a war which, in any case, does not involve immediately the peace and freedom of the nation. The draft was justified in World War II because the life of the people collectively was at stake. Individuals had to fight, if the nation was to survive, for the lives of their countrymen and their way of life. Viet-Nam is no such case. Nor was Korea an example where, in my opinion, certain military action was justified but the draft was not for the reasons stated above.
Because of my opposition to the draft and the war, I am in great sympathy with those who are not willing to fight, kill, and maybe, die for their country (i.e. the particular policy of a particular government) right or wrong. Two of my friends at Oxford are conscientious objectors. I wrote a letter of recommendation for one of them to his Mississippi draft board a letter which I am more proud of than anything else I wrote at Oxford last year. One of my roommates is a draft resister who is possibly under indictment and may never be able to go home again. He is one of the bravest, best men I know. His country needs men like him more than they know. That he is considered a criminal is an obscenity.
The decision not to be a resister and the related subsequent decisions were the most difficult of my life. I decided to accept the draft in spite of my beliefs for one reason: to maintain my political viability within the system. For years I have worked to prepare myself for a political life characterized by both practical political ability and concern for rapid social progress. It is a life I still feel compelled to try to lead. I do not think our system of government is by definition corrupt, how- ever dangerous and inadequate it has been in recent years. (The society may be corrupt, but that is not the same thing, and if that is true we are all finished anyway.)
When the draft came, despite political convictions, I was having a hard time facing the prospect of fighting a war I had been fighting against, and that is why I contacted you. ROTC was the one way left in which I'd possibly, but not positively avoid both Viet-Nam and resistance. Going on with my education, even coming back to England, played no part in my decision to join ROTC. I am back here and would have been at Arkansas Law School because there is nothing else I can do. In fact, I would like to have been able to take a year out perhaps to teach in a small college or work on some community action project and in the process to decide whether to attend law school or graduate school and how to begin putting what I have learned to use.
But the particulars of my personal life are not nearly as important to me as the principles involved. After I signed the ROTC letter of intent, I begin to wonder whether the compromise I had made with myself was not more objectionable than the draft would have been, because I had no interest in the ROTC program in itself and all I seemed to have done was to protect myself from physical harm. Also, I began to think I had deceived you, not by lies-there were none-but by failing to tell you all the things I'm writing now. I doubt that I had the mental coherence to articulate them then.
At that time, after we had made our agreement and you had sent my 1-D deferment to my draft board, the anguish and loss of my self regard and self confidence really set in. I hardly slept for weeks and kept going by eating compulsively and reading until exhaustion brought sleep. Finally, on 12 September, I stayed up all night writing a letter to the chairman of my draft board, saying basically what is in the preceding paragraph, thanking him for trying to help in a case where he really couldn't, and stating that I couldn't do the ROTC after all and would he please draft me as soon as possible. I never mailed the letter, but I did carry it on me every day until I got on the plane to return to England. I didn't mail the letter because I didn't see, in the end, how my going in the army and maybe to Viet-Nam would achieve anything except a feeling that I had punished myself and gotten what I deserved. So I came back to England to try to make something of this second year of my Rhodes scholarship.
And that is where I am now, writing to you because you have been good to me and have a right to know what I think and feel. I am writing too, in the hope the my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give. To many of us, it is no longer clear what is service and what is disservice, or if it is clear, the conclusion is likely to be illegal.
Forgive the length of this letter. There was much-to say. There is still a lot to be said, but it can wait. Please say hello to Col. Jones for me.
Merry Christmas.
Sincerely,
Bill Clinton
The intoduction courtesy of Sgt.Grit.
GySgt
James
USMC 71-81
Vietnam Vet 71-74
When his undergraduate draft deferment ran out and he went off to Oxford he sought further protection from the draft by promising the ROTC Commandant at the University of Arkansas that he'd return in the fall of 1969 and enroll in ROTC.
He had already received and ignored a draft notice. An ROTC deferment was granted, yet it shouldn't have been because he wasn't enrolled, but Bill had connections with the powerful Sen. Fulbright of Arkansas. He mailed this letter to Col. Holmes, ROTC Commandant, after he was awarded a draft number that assured he wouldn't be called to serve.
Following is the text of the letter that Bill Clinton wrote to Col. Eugene Holmes, director to the ROTC program at the University of Arkansas on 3 Dec, 1969:
Dear Col. Holmes,
I'm sorry to be so long in writing. I know I promised to let you hear from me at least once a month, and from now on you will, but I have had some time to think about this first letter. Almost daily since my return to England I have thought about writing, about what I want to and ought to say.
First, I want to thank you, not just for saving me from the draft, but for being so kind and decent to me last summer, when I was as low as I have ever been. One thing which made the bond we struck in good faith somewhat palatable to me was, my high regard for you personally. In retrospect it seems that the admiration might not have been mutual had you known a little more about me, about my political beliefs and activities. At least you might have thought me more fit for the draft than for ROTC.
Let me try to explain. As you know I worked for two years in a very minor position on the State Foreign Relations Committee. I did it for the experience and the salary but also for the opportunity, however small, of working every day against a war I opposed and despised with a depth of feeling I had reserved solely for racism in America before Viet-Nam. I did not take the matter lightly but studied it carefully, and there was a time when not many people had more information about VietNam at hand than I did.
I have written and spoken and marched against the war. One of the national organizers of the VietNam Moratorium is close friend of mine. After I left Arkansas last summer, I went to Washington to work in the national headquarters of the Moratorium then to England to organize the Americans here for demonstrations 16 Oct and 16 Nov.
Interlocked with the war is the draft issue, which I did not begin to consider separately until early 1968. After a law seminar at Georgetown, I wrote a paper on the legal arguments for and against allowing, within the Selective Service System, the classification of selective conscientious objection, for those opposed to participation in a particular war, not simply to "participation in war in any form."
From my work I came to believe that the draft system itself is illegitimate. No government really rooted in limited parliamentary democracy should have the power to make its citizens fight and kill and die in a war they may oppose, a war which even possibly may be wrong, a war which, in any case, does not involve immediately the peace and freedom of the nation. The draft was justified in World War II because the life of the people collectively was at stake. Individuals had to fight, if the nation was to survive, for the lives of their countrymen and their way of life. Viet-Nam is no such case. Nor was Korea an example where, in my opinion, certain military action was justified but the draft was not for the reasons stated above.
Because of my opposition to the draft and the war, I am in great sympathy with those who are not willing to fight, kill, and maybe, die for their country (i.e. the particular policy of a particular government) right or wrong. Two of my friends at Oxford are conscientious objectors. I wrote a letter of recommendation for one of them to his Mississippi draft board a letter which I am more proud of than anything else I wrote at Oxford last year. One of my roommates is a draft resister who is possibly under indictment and may never be able to go home again. He is one of the bravest, best men I know. His country needs men like him more than they know. That he is considered a criminal is an obscenity.
The decision not to be a resister and the related subsequent decisions were the most difficult of my life. I decided to accept the draft in spite of my beliefs for one reason: to maintain my political viability within the system. For years I have worked to prepare myself for a political life characterized by both practical political ability and concern for rapid social progress. It is a life I still feel compelled to try to lead. I do not think our system of government is by definition corrupt, how- ever dangerous and inadequate it has been in recent years. (The society may be corrupt, but that is not the same thing, and if that is true we are all finished anyway.)
When the draft came, despite political convictions, I was having a hard time facing the prospect of fighting a war I had been fighting against, and that is why I contacted you. ROTC was the one way left in which I'd possibly, but not positively avoid both Viet-Nam and resistance. Going on with my education, even coming back to England, played no part in my decision to join ROTC. I am back here and would have been at Arkansas Law School because there is nothing else I can do. In fact, I would like to have been able to take a year out perhaps to teach in a small college or work on some community action project and in the process to decide whether to attend law school or graduate school and how to begin putting what I have learned to use.
But the particulars of my personal life are not nearly as important to me as the principles involved. After I signed the ROTC letter of intent, I begin to wonder whether the compromise I had made with myself was not more objectionable than the draft would have been, because I had no interest in the ROTC program in itself and all I seemed to have done was to protect myself from physical harm. Also, I began to think I had deceived you, not by lies-there were none-but by failing to tell you all the things I'm writing now. I doubt that I had the mental coherence to articulate them then.
At that time, after we had made our agreement and you had sent my 1-D deferment to my draft board, the anguish and loss of my self regard and self confidence really set in. I hardly slept for weeks and kept going by eating compulsively and reading until exhaustion brought sleep. Finally, on 12 September, I stayed up all night writing a letter to the chairman of my draft board, saying basically what is in the preceding paragraph, thanking him for trying to help in a case where he really couldn't, and stating that I couldn't do the ROTC after all and would he please draft me as soon as possible. I never mailed the letter, but I did carry it on me every day until I got on the plane to return to England. I didn't mail the letter because I didn't see, in the end, how my going in the army and maybe to Viet-Nam would achieve anything except a feeling that I had punished myself and gotten what I deserved. So I came back to England to try to make something of this second year of my Rhodes scholarship.
And that is where I am now, writing to you because you have been good to me and have a right to know what I think and feel. I am writing too, in the hope the my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give. To many of us, it is no longer clear what is service and what is disservice, or if it is clear, the conclusion is likely to be illegal.
Forgive the length of this letter. There was much-to say. There is still a lot to be said, but it can wait. Please say hello to Col. Jones for me.
Merry Christmas.
Sincerely,
Bill Clinton
The intoduction courtesy of Sgt.Grit.
GySgt
James
USMC 71-81
Vietnam Vet 71-74
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JFK and FDR were also unrepentant womanizers. The only difference is that their affairs were more open and there was little or no attempt to deny that they happened. It is unfortunate that Billy Boy decided to lie on the stand, and for that he should have, in my opinion, been impeached (for what good is law if the man most responsible for upholding the law is not subject to it).
When Clinton visited Vietnam, it healed many of the wounds that had existed between the nations since the Vietnam War. Trade was again opened up between the nations, and it was looked upon favourably by the Vietnamese. In my opinion, this was a good move, both as a politician, but as a humanitarian, since it has helped the Vietnamese raise their standard of living.
I am sorry for your loss during the Vietnam War, and have nothing but respect for those who fight for their countries. That being said, on a personal level, I cannot find fault with Clinton for dodging the draft. If a man finds moral fault with what his government is doing, I would argue that it is his duty to God and to himself to either conscientiously object or to avoid aiding in immoral activities.
Personally, I don't like straight-up comparisons of one president to another, especially when one has had to go through what Bush has had to go through (which he did remarkably well). It's impossible to say how Clinton would have acted after 9/11 and all that.
I will say that I'm not a big fan of Bush. He doesn't quite seem to have all that it takes to be a president, and seems to be simply following along in his father's footsteps. His recent inclusion of Cuba in the "Axis of Evil" seems ridiculous. To his credit, he surrounded himself with a very capable cabinet to advise him.
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"RUN COWARD RUN"
Deep within this Marine, the hatred I have for you has no cure,
you ran and let My Country down, and that's for sure ....
I lived in the jungle where day after day it was death, blood, sweat and tears,
but you really didn't care about me in Vietnam, for you had no fears ....
By day and night you'd protest, party, laugh and play,
while back in Vietnam, "Tom's been killed" I'd hear them say ....
As a Marine I stand Proud and Tall, from My Country, I'd never run,
even though I know Vietnam is not a game, nor is it fun ....
I made alot of friends in Vietnam .... Tom, Bill, Gunner and Joe,
but to visit them now, to Arlington National Cemetary I must go ....
One day I stood in silence overlooking the graves of all who died,
they had served their country with Honor, Dignity and Pride ....
I cried tears one rainy day in Vietnam until I couldn't see,
trying to comfort my dying friend, he said to me, "bye Al, remember me" ....
My close friend had died for his country with Pride, and without shame,
while you went to Canada thinking this was all a game ....
Never shall I consider forgiving you for running away,
to me, your a coward and a disgrace to My Country is all I can say ....
The hatred embedded within me toward cowards like you,
will never be forgotten within me, no matter what you say or do ....
America is My Country, and it's the freedom that I enjoy and love,
and I will serve My Country again if push comes to shove ....
To avoid the draft, you deserted My Country to do nothing but hide,
while American Patriots fight in Vietnam, and many have died ....
You treated me with great dis-respect and dis-honor when I came back,
you smoked your weed, called me filthy names, and manners you did lack ....
War is hell, and we realize that many good men will die,
It breaks my heart to see parents of KIA's break down and cry ....
You don't deserve the freedom that I fought to preserve, you ran to hide,
so stay in Canada cowards, and permanently there reside ....
This Marine shall NEVER forgive you for running, or forget it,
without shame or guilt, upon your grave I shall spit ....
Marine, author's name unknown
Deep within this Marine, the hatred I have for you has no cure,
you ran and let My Country down, and that's for sure ....
I lived in the jungle where day after day it was death, blood, sweat and tears,
but you really didn't care about me in Vietnam, for you had no fears ....
By day and night you'd protest, party, laugh and play,
while back in Vietnam, "Tom's been killed" I'd hear them say ....
As a Marine I stand Proud and Tall, from My Country, I'd never run,
even though I know Vietnam is not a game, nor is it fun ....
I made alot of friends in Vietnam .... Tom, Bill, Gunner and Joe,
but to visit them now, to Arlington National Cemetary I must go ....
One day I stood in silence overlooking the graves of all who died,
they had served their country with Honor, Dignity and Pride ....
I cried tears one rainy day in Vietnam until I couldn't see,
trying to comfort my dying friend, he said to me, "bye Al, remember me" ....
My close friend had died for his country with Pride, and without shame,
while you went to Canada thinking this was all a game ....
Never shall I consider forgiving you for running away,
to me, your a coward and a disgrace to My Country is all I can say ....
The hatred embedded within me toward cowards like you,
will never be forgotten within me, no matter what you say or do ....
America is My Country, and it's the freedom that I enjoy and love,
and I will serve My Country again if push comes to shove ....
To avoid the draft, you deserted My Country to do nothing but hide,
while American Patriots fight in Vietnam, and many have died ....
You treated me with great dis-respect and dis-honor when I came back,
you smoked your weed, called me filthy names, and manners you did lack ....
War is hell, and we realize that many good men will die,
It breaks my heart to see parents of KIA's break down and cry ....
You don't deserve the freedom that I fought to preserve, you ran to hide,
so stay in Canada cowards, and permanently there reside ....
This Marine shall NEVER forgive you for running, or forget it,
without shame or guilt, upon your grave I shall spit ....
Marine, author's name unknown
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There are of course a number of prominant draft dodgers in the Republican party. This never seems to be a problem, only when it's a Liberal. And Clinton's dishonesty doesn't come close to the outright treason of the Reagan administration, including Bush Sr. Clinton betrayed the Liberals who voted for him, but I would stack his offenses up againt Republican attempts to bypass the American constitution and set up a shadow government any day of the week.
BTW: The sad fact is that Vietnam was not fought to defend American freedom at all; it was fought to protect the honor of American politicians such as LBJ who didn't want to be the first American president to lose a war. The more internal documentation we get on the decision-making that lead to that war and its shameless continuation the more clear it becomes that all those lives were sacrificed for nothing, and the politicals knew it. So, if you must hate the draft-dodgers, then so be it, but theirs was not the most eggregious betrayal of that war.
BTW: The sad fact is that Vietnam was not fought to defend American freedom at all; it was fought to protect the honor of American politicians such as LBJ who didn't want to be the first American president to lose a war. The more internal documentation we get on the decision-making that lead to that war and its shameless continuation the more clear it becomes that all those lives were sacrificed for nothing, and the politicals knew it. So, if you must hate the draft-dodgers, then so be it, but theirs was not the most eggregious betrayal of that war.
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clinton's life is plagued by issues that shouldn't have come up in the first place.
one, i feel that the US had no business in Vietnam, so if he protested the war, more power to him.
second, no doubt that clinton had a little problem in sexual morality, but whether or not he had sexual relations with lewinsky, why should that even be brought to court. if he had not lied, it would have been an embarrassment either way, and everybody would want him out of office either way.
but as for his professional life, Clinton actually knew what he was into, unlike our current president. With clinton, the economy soared and America was peaceful. But I guess that doesnt matter when youre at the right, eh?
one, i feel that the US had no business in Vietnam, so if he protested the war, more power to him.
second, no doubt that clinton had a little problem in sexual morality, but whether or not he had sexual relations with lewinsky, why should that even be brought to court. if he had not lied, it would have been an embarrassment either way, and everybody would want him out of office either way.
but as for his professional life, Clinton actually knew what he was into, unlike our current president. With clinton, the economy soared and America was peaceful. But I guess that doesnt matter when youre at the right, eh?
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As an American and a USMC Vet that served three years in Vietnam I believed in what I was doing there, serving my country.
The Vietnamese people appreciated more what we were doing there then the vast majority of the people of United States did; Especially the war protesters, draft dodgers, flag burners and all the malcontents that opposed the Armed Forces and the United States goverment.
While myself and others served their country when asked to do the counter culture individuals spoused their doctrine of the hedonistic lifestyle i.e. Free love, sex with anyone, ingest, inhale, smoke or shoot the drug of your choice, hate the goverment, hate the men who went to Vietnam War to serve their country with honor, dignity and valor.
The main problem with the Vietnam War was excluding the so-called intellectual elitists that were excluded from serving in the Vietnam War by attending college. I chose to join the USMC willingly as did many and put off going to college so as to serve our Country that we loved.
It is very easy for someone to say we had no business being in Vietnam as many have said and continue to do.
I personally witnessed the brutality of the N.Vietnamese rendered to their S.Vietnamese countrymen.
There are Vietnamese people that still pay tribute and honor the Marines within the CAP Units (www.capmarine.com/). that operated out of villages and hamlets of Vietnam.
I as an American of the United States who served three tours of duty in Vietnam with honor and valor would do it all over again if asked to do by the Country, I so love.
GySgt
James
UCMC 71-81
Vietnam 71-74
The Vietnamese people appreciated more what we were doing there then the vast majority of the people of United States did; Especially the war protesters, draft dodgers, flag burners and all the malcontents that opposed the Armed Forces and the United States goverment.
While myself and others served their country when asked to do the counter culture individuals spoused their doctrine of the hedonistic lifestyle i.e. Free love, sex with anyone, ingest, inhale, smoke or shoot the drug of your choice, hate the goverment, hate the men who went to Vietnam War to serve their country with honor, dignity and valor.
The main problem with the Vietnam War was excluding the so-called intellectual elitists that were excluded from serving in the Vietnam War by attending college. I chose to join the USMC willingly as did many and put off going to college so as to serve our Country that we loved.
It is very easy for someone to say we had no business being in Vietnam as many have said and continue to do.
I personally witnessed the brutality of the N.Vietnamese rendered to their S.Vietnamese countrymen.
There are Vietnamese people that still pay tribute and honor the Marines within the CAP Units (www.capmarine.com/). that operated out of villages and hamlets of Vietnam.
I as an American of the United States who served three tours of duty in Vietnam with honor and valor would do it all over again if asked to do by the Country, I so love.
GySgt
James
UCMC 71-81
Vietnam 71-74
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Well I'm relieved at that Gnnsgt, I guess; the song you posted makes no such distinction between the sin and the sinner.
Dude from strange land, I obviously agree that the U.S. had no business there, but I would distinguish between those like M. Ali who did protest and paid the conseqences, and those who simply ran. Since I didn't face those choices, however, I would temper my concerns. I really don't know how I would have reacted. My own father served two tours in Vietnam, but I know he would have done anything to keep my older brother out of it. Pointless war!
As for Clinton, the man disgusts me. He betrayed so many important causes for a few cheap thrills. What I cannot accept is the smugness with which conservatives flatter their own moral standards when they talk about Clinton. There have been far more serious violations of the public trust than his.
Dude from strange land, I obviously agree that the U.S. had no business there, but I would distinguish between those like M. Ali who did protest and paid the conseqences, and those who simply ran. Since I didn't face those choices, however, I would temper my concerns. I really don't know how I would have reacted. My own father served two tours in Vietnam, but I know he would have done anything to keep my older brother out of it. Pointless war!
As for Clinton, the man disgusts me. He betrayed so many important causes for a few cheap thrills. What I cannot accept is the smugness with which conservatives flatter their own moral standards when they talk about Clinton. There have been far more serious violations of the public trust than his.
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"Vietnamese people in some of the [CAP] hamlets still, twenty five plus years after-the-fact, hold annual memorial services for the young men who died to keep them and their children free."
LtCol. William R. Corson
LtCol. William R. Corson
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It's Scotland's flag, where my father and mother were born. I had the good fortune to spend ten years of my youth growing up in Scotland.
GySgt
James
GySgt
James
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Easy or not, the fact remains that the policy was flawed. I am glad that some Vietnamese at least still appreciate the scrifice, but it does not validate the war. In any event the war was not fought to prevent human rights abuses. The South Vietnamese government was no Humanitarian enterprise.
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