Salvation and repentance

[SavedByGrace3]

I have put this question to many who believe that one must cease from all sin before one can be saved.

"Did you do it? Was your attempt to be "as perfect as the Father in heaven" successful?"

I do not recall anyone saying yes.

But the thing is. If you were successful, and you did behave prefect as the Father... why did you have to get saved? According to Paul, the purpose of the law was to show all men that they are lost and need to be saved by grace. If you successfully repent from all sin, then you must not be unregenerate.

Romans 3:20 Williams
20 Because no human creature can be brought into right standing with God by observing the law. For all the law can do is to make men conscious of sin.

The law is nothing more than a sinful test. It is a sinner revealer. Every attempt at repentance will fail and will do nothing but make one more aware of their sinfulness and need for mercy and grace.

Romans 3:28 KJV
28 Therefore, we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Those claiming to have successfully repented from all sin essentially say they were justified by faith WITH the works of the law. This verse clearly says they did not. And the previous verse calls this claim to be a boast:

Romans 3:27 KJV
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Paul spoke to the Galatians in the same way:

Galatians 2:16 KJV
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

So yes, repentance is necessary, but it is intended to be unsuccessful. Your walk is not going to be as perfect as the Father in heaven, and that is the requirement if you include this in your gospel.
So if you turn around and claim you repented from sin, you are saying two things, first that you do not need to be saved because you are already are prefect as the Faither in heaven, and two, you accomplished something the entirety of the scriptures say you cannot accomplish. You passed a test that the scripture says you, as an unsaved person, could not pass.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

I have put this question to many who believe that one must cease from all sin before one can be saved.

"Did you do it? Was your attempt to be "as perfect as the Father in heaven" successful?"

I do not recall anyone saying yes.

But the thing is. If you were successful, and you did behave prefect as the Father... why did you have to get saved? According to Paul, the purpose of the law was to show all men that they are lost and need to be saved by grace. If you successfully repent from all sin, then you must not be unregenerate.

Romans 3:20 Williams
20 Because no human creature can be brought into right standing with God by observing the law. For all the law can do is to make men conscious of sin.

The law is nothing more than a sinful test. It is a sinner revealer. Every attempt at repentance will fail and will do nothing but make one more aware of their sinfulness and need for mercy and grace.

Romans 3:28 KJV
28 Therefore, we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Those claiming to have successfully repented from all sin essentially say they were justified by faith WITH the works of the law. This verse clearly says they did not. And the previous verse calls this claim to be a boast:

Romans 3:27 KJV
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Paul spoke to the Galatians in the same way:

Galatians 2:16 KJV
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

So yes, repentance is necessary, but it is intended to be unsuccessful. Your walk is not going to be as perfect as the Father in heaven, and that is the requirement if you include this in your gospel.
So if you turn around and claim you repented from sin, you are saying two things, first that you do not need to be saved because you are already are prefect as the Faither in heaven, and two, you accomplished something the entirety of the scriptures say you cannot accomplish. You passed a test that the scripture says you, as an unsaved person, could not pass.

We are still flesh...we still
stumble and fall into sin. This is why James says confess your sins to one another and pray for one another.
We are not to harbor a desire for sin as much as our faith provides with the help of the given Holy Spirit.

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.
I John 1:8-10

You are looking at extremes...this is not possible with man, with God all things are possible He says. This is the reason for the provision of confession.

The OP questions, to my understanding, the sufficiency of repentance when one may not be sincere with God in that repentance.

 

[timothyu]

Gentile Christians were not required to observe Jewish customs. Jesus lived and ministered under the Old Covenant, not the New.

Yes but that shows there was more to it than just believing in Jesus

 

[timothyu]

What a sad state man has turned God's good news and free gift into, some prize to be won by a great effort.

Where is the great effort in switching allegiance from the traditional selfish will of man to the will of the Kingdom which focuses on others?

 

[Studyman]

And Peter clarified all that for the Gentiles. Read Acts 15. Gentile Christians were not required to observe Jewish customs. Jesus lived and ministered under the Old Covenant, not the New.

No one was ever required to observe Jewish Customs. Jesus certainly never did. But that was all that the religious sect of the Pharisees, including Paul before his conversion, observed. As the Jesus of the Bible teaches us.

Mark 7: 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

It is God's instruction in righteousness, that Paul said men are to "Yield themselves" servants to obey, not Jewish traditions or customs which caused those who observe them to transgress God's Commandments.

 

[timothyu]

What verse from the Gospel of John proved that repentance is a condition God requires to receive Eternal Life. Post the verse or verses

As you are hung up on John, would you settle for where John writes: Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

 

[Aussie Pete]

As you are hung up on John, would you settle for where John writes: Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

That has nothing to do with eternal life. Eternal life is just that, eternal. If you can kill God, you can kill the new life of the born again believer. Believers have a choice as to whether they live according to the new life or not. Christians who depend on themselves and not on the life of Christ are still saved, but they miss out on God's blessing and on God's Kingdom rewards.

 

[Aussie Pete]

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This thread and ones similar, show just how convoluted man has made the simple good news God has given humanity. On how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life, by belief/faith in Jesus. No the sinful nature of man, the beauty and simplicity of belief in Jesus does not appeal to sinful man. They conclude belief in Jesus is not enough, they must add to belief (or skip belief all together) and repent, commit, obey, be baptized, etc.. and in the end hoping their efforts were good enough for God to judge them worthy to be rewarded eternal life.

What a sad state man has turned God's good news and free gift into, some prize to be won by a great effort.

You are much confused. It's a very simple choice, to choose against the old and embrace the new. Or reject God's offer of eternal life in Christ. Choosing is not a work.

 

[d taylor]

You are much confused. It's a very simple choice, to choose against the old and embrace the new. Or reject God's offer of eternal life in Christ. Choosing is not a work.

-
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Really, the only person stating what The Bible states as the only way to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life, belief in Jesus and i am confused. I would suggest you go back to the basics and this time advance in Bible study by the analogy of faith.

 

[d taylor]

As you are hung up on John, would you settle for where John writes: Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

-
​

Revelation 2 is address to believers, why would they need to know how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life. As they are already born again children of God.

 

[d taylor]

We Christians are commissioned not only to use the Gospel of John, but rather, as Jesus says: teach all nations whatsoever I have taught you.

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The Bible (new testament0 is address to certain people addressing specific areas. If you do not understand this, then you will end up doing like you are doing. Trying to make The Bible say about a subject, that when read in the context of the specific book and who the author is addressing and the area. Is not addressing areas or topics you are trying to make The Bible address. Like using 1st John or Revelation to address unbelievers and what God requires the unbeliever to do to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life and become a born again child of God.

The books of The New Testament except for The Gospel of John, are addressed to believers and about growth, discipleship and believers who are making bad sinful choices., etc...

 

[d taylor]

If I repent I'm going to hell?

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Well the rich man in Hades, thought it was repentance. are you going to take the advice of someone in Hades. Or Abraham, who told the rich man Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’

Why did Abraham say this because he knew it is belief in Jesus that keeps one from Hades. Why because Moses wrote about The Messiah as Jesus tells the people.

For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

Also Jesus states before the verses above

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

See you keep searching the scriptures and posting verses to support your theological belief. But have you believed in The Messiah for Eternal Life.

 

[timothyu]

That has nothing to do with eternal life.

Never said it i did. The topic was repentance.

 

[timothyu]

​

Revelation 2 is address to believers, why would they need to know how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life. As they are already born again children of God.

Still says repent/change

 

[throughfiierytrial]

-​

The Bible (new testament0 is address to certain people addressing specific areas. If you do not understand this, then you will end up doing like you are doing. Trying to make The Bible say about a subject, that when read in the context of the specific book and who the author is addressing and the area. Is not addressing areas or topics you are trying to make The Bible address. Like using 1st John or Revelation to address unbelievers and what God requires the unbeliever to do to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life and become a born again child of God.

The books of The New Testament except for The Gospel of John, are addressed to believers and about growth, discipleship and believers who are making bad sinful choices., etc...

Not meaning to offend you, but you should surely try to prove your stance that the Bible is to address only certain people and in specific areas. This is certainly not a commonly held belief among believers. Once again I will prove this to you using a Bible citation...though this may not penetrate or enlighten you as you seem to have your mind set on a certain way of looking at the Bible which btw can not be replicated and agreed upon by any two people. Here is the passage...
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. - II Timothy 3:16-17 (and this thought is preceded by the statement ...from infancy thou hast known the Holy Scriptures which are able to make thee wise unto salvation. through faith in Christ Jesus. Do you really wish me to believe that a young child would conclude as you and begin to read as you? Only the Bible is the inspired word of God. You are running with notions of who wrote what to whom for what purpose...to arrive at such conclusions you must be relying on extra-Biblical sources which were written by mere fallible man and are not to be relied on.)

Again I point you to the Great Commission to the 12 Apostles and their message went out to all nations. I hope you will come out of your current position on how to read the Bible or your growth will be stifled. Read the Bible through as a Book and the Holy Spirit will guide you into Truth and you will learn that there are many passages which reflect upon and build upon another.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

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Well the rich man in Hades, thought it was repentance. are you going to take the advice of someone in Hades. Or Abraham, who told the rich man Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’

Why did Abraham say this because he knew it is belief in Jesus that keeps one from Hades. Why because Moses wrote about The Messiah as Jesus tells the people.

For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

Also Jesus states before the verses above

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

See you keep searching the scriptures and posting verses to support your theological belief. But have you believed in The Messiah for Eternal Life.

I don't agree that the rich man in hell thought his way to salvation was repentance and that this fact assigned him to hell.
You asked me to prove my conclusions where I had already cited passages. Your statements here are not grounded in Scripture.

 

[d taylor]

I don't agree that the rich man in hell thought his way to salvation was repentance and that this fact assigned him to hell.
You asked me to prove my conclusions where I had already cited passages. Your statements here are not grounded in Scripture.

No i ask you to prove from The Gospel of John, that repentance is a condition given by God to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life,
Post 29#

 

[throughfiierytrial]

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Well the rich man in Hades, thought it was repentance. are you going to take the advice of someone in Hades. Or Abraham, who told the rich man Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’

Why did Abraham say this because he knew it is belief in Jesus that keeps one from Hades. Why because Moses wrote about The Messiah as Jesus tells the people.

For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

Also Jesus states before the verses above

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

See you keep searching the scriptures and posting verses to support your theological belief. But have you believed in The Messiah for Eternal Life.

I should address another issue.
Faith is a free gift of God...we cannot earn it. God calls and enlightens all those predestined to eternal life...see Romans 8:30
We have passed over from death to life if we believe in Him...repentance is a part of belief. For faith comes from the message and the message is the Word about Christ. Romans 10:17 The message is to repent and be baptized among many other factors of growth. Where we end up at our life's end in this cycle will of course determine our full opportunity for growth. We see the parable of the workers. In this parable those last hour workers represent those who come to faith late in their life. Growth then may not have abound as much as those first hour workers. But, they all received the same reward: eternal life.
Again, when Peter stood up and preached to the multitudes in Acts he answered the people's question of what shall we do with the reply...Repent and be baptized everyone of you and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (somewhat paraphrased...look it up... Acts 2:38 They received a message about Christ and many were moved to act upon it...about three thousand. Acts 2:41.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

No i ask you to prove from The Gospel of John, that repentance is a condition given by God to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life,
Post 29#

We have the entire Bible to live by.

 

[d taylor]

I should address another issue.
Faith is a free gift of God...we cannot earn it. God calls and enlightens all those predestined to eternal life...see Romans 8:30
We have passed over from death to life if we believe in Him...repentance is a part of belief. For faith comes from the message and the message is the Word about Christ. Romans 10:17 The message is to repent and be baptized among many other factors of growth. Where we end up at our life's end in this cycle will of course determine our full opportunity for growth. We see the parable of the workers. In this parable those last hour workers represent those who come to faith late in their life. Growth then may not have abound as much as those first hour workers. But, they all received the same reward: eternal life.
Again, when Peter stood up and preached to the multitudes in Acts he answered the people's question of what shall we do with the reply...Repent and be baptized everyone of you and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (somewhat paraphrased...look it up... Acts 2:38 They received a message about Christ and many were moved to act upon it...about three thousand. Acts 2:41.

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Every person born has the ability to have faith in something.

Where in Acts 2 does Peter address receiving God's free gift of Eternal life by belief in Jesus. Peter is addressing mostly believers and what they must do to be restored and join Peters group of believers (The Church being formed).

That is why the ask what must we do and not what must we do to be saved or receive eternal life.