Salvation and repentance

[timothyu]

I'm not sure of your position on self-control in this post. If you are opposed are you not refuting the clear reading of Scripture?

I am saying that sin is simply putting our will ahead of the will of God. So of course it is sinful to focus on self interest rather than God's will which is care for others in need. As humans we often take what is not ours or we put ourselves selfishly ahead of others. We have the right idea in following the will of God but sometimes we slip up even if it is as simple as not letting someone into our traffic lane. We are not as self controlled as we think. In other words we need to hate what we are.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

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Books like Titus are for teaching believers (born again children of God) how to live Godly lives, lives than God will approve of. Titus is not address to unbelievers and what they must do to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life and become a permanent born again child of God.

That is the purpose of The Gospel of John and John states to believe in Jesus.

The message to the unbeliever is always repent and be baptized.
(And, inserting here that Peter's message to Cornelius is in line with this teaching...Cornelius had acts of repentance and prayers...what the content of those prayers are we can only assume; he may have been confessing and offered prayers for salvation...the entire message is not here. We do see the mention of John's ministry which was one of repentance and Jesus mentioned as the Judge.)
Are you hung up on thinking this means they have to be perfect in their personal believing lives at the point of salvation? We are credited with righteousness through faith in the message of Jesus our Savior. Savior here means we are being saved from sin. We realize this and want this when we confess Jesus.
You are very unwilling to admit this point.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

I am saying that sin is simply putting our will ahead of the will of God. So of course it is sinful to focus on self interest rather than God's will which is care for others in need. As humans we often take what is not ours or we put ourselves selfishly ahead of others. We have the right idea in following the will of God but sometimes we slip up even if it is as simple as not letting someone into our traffic lane. We are not as self controlled as we think. In other words we need to hate what we are.

Agree, just so we do not discount the powerful help of Jesus when we ask Him in prayer to help us lead good and descent lives for Him, to curb our sin, to give us a right spirit as King David prays in Psalm 51.

 

[d taylor]

The message to the unbeliever is always repent and be baptized.
(And, inserting here that Peter's message to Cornelius is in line with this teaching...Cornelius had acts of repentance and prayers...what the content of those prayers are we can only assume; he may have been confessing and offered prayers for salvation...the entire message is not here. We do see the mention of John's ministry which was one of repentance and Jesus mentioned as the Judge.)
Are you hung up on thinking this means they have to be perfect in their personal believing lives at the point of salvation? We are credited with righteousness through faith in the message of Jesus our Savior. Savior here means we are being saved from sin. We realize this and want this when we confess Jesus.
You are very unwilling to admit this point.

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That is your message not The Bibles. the Bibles is believe in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

This is my last post, have a nice life.

 

[Neogaia777]

If you don't repent sincerely, can you be saved if you accept Jesus died for your sins?

What if your repentance is weak and you don't feel all that bad about the sins?

Do you only have to repent once at the start, or do you have to keep repenting to maintain salvation.

Cheers

We should be getting better, and/or improving, etc.

But as for God's specific and individual judgement of each individual, some things He may hold against us, and some things He might not, etc, since each one comes with it's own strengths and weaknesses, and are all "different" each individually, etc.

You can be taking a risk to your own salvation anytime you play around with sin either way, etc, as I can't absolutely tell you for sure or not what you'll each individually each be forever condemned by or for or not, or totally lose your salvation over either way, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Studyman]

Only to find one day their vanity about doing so is tested and they sometimes fail as a result. Does this not indicate God would like us to get over the idea we can control ourselves rather than instead accepting ourselves for the sinners we truly are
and hope for a time the self serving ways we brought upon ourselves in the Garden (original sin) will be taken away from existence in the Kingdom to come. In the meantime are we not to struggle with the idea of putting His will ahead of our own and even though often unsuccessful reject and hate the self serving ways of mankind.

The religious philosophy that God creates man and gives them instruction in righteousness, but withholds from them the capacity to "Yield themselves" Servants to obey Him, is a popular religious philosophy promoted by "MANY" who come in His Name no doubt. But such a philosophy is a deception, if one trusts the Holy Scriptures "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness". According to Scriptures, we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

A child is created to walk. God gives this child the capacity to learn how to do so. Sure, the child will stumble and fall, as is the design of God. Shall the child just give up, and listen to other voices telling him he will always stumble and always fall? That he doesn't have the capacity to walk because he falls during the learning process? Shall this child simply accept that he cannot walk, because he stumbles and falls? Such a teaching is a deception and against God.

Sinning (Disobedience) is a choice. Obedience is a choice. Getting up and trying again, is a choice. To preach otherwise, is to call both Jesus, and HIS Father a liar. Learning to walk is God's Will for His Children. They will learn to walk, by their stumbles and falls, or as it is written, "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered." It is not "Self-Serving" to rule over one's flesh, or to get up and try again. Just as it isn't self-serving to remove the beam out of our own eyes first.

Paul understood this and explained it perfectly for those who would trust Scriptures.

Phil. 3: 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark "for the prize" of the high calling of God "in" Christ Jesus.

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

The Jesus "of the Bible" commands this. Matt. 5: 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

This is the Prize Paul pressed for. He didn't accept the preaching of the "Other voice" in the Garden God placed him in, who quotes some of God's Word, which convinced Eve God was a liar. He didn't accept, "I'm a sinner, and will always be a sinner" and can never be perfect, after His Redeemer said "Now Go and sin no more" and be ye perfect. This is Faith in Christ, Yes?

As Paul points out from the One True God "Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Rom. 2:7 To them who by "patient continuance in well doing" seek for glory and honour and immortality, "eternal life"

Exactly like the Toddler "who by patient continuance" in striving to walk, will learn how to walk.

Remember, Jesus warned us not to be deceived by "MANY" who "come in His Name". There is only one religion on this planet that fits HIS description here. And it's not Islam, Buddhism or Atheists.

Trust the Holy Scriptures for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Take Heed of "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord. Because as Paul teaches, For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

 

[BNR32FAN]

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What verse from the Gospel of John proved that repentance is a condition God requires to receive Eternal Life. Post the verse or verses

”“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.“
‭‭John‬ ‭15‬:‭1‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB

 

[d taylor]

”“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.“
‭‭John‬ ‭15‬:‭1‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB

The Bible has quite a few verses plainly stating that belief in Jesus gives the person God's free gift of Eternal Life.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

So why is there not at least one verse stating as plainly as verses from The Gospel of John. That to receive eternal life a person must repent

 

[BNR32FAN]

The Bible has quite a few verses plainly stating that belief in Jesus gives the person God's free gift of Eternal Life.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

So why is there not at least one verse stating as plainly as verses from The Gospel of John. That to receive eternal life a person must repent

Every time Jesus says someone will be saved He ALWAYS uses the word “believe” in the present tense, never in the past tense. And why do you confine such statements to the gospel of John? This only shows that your ignoring the verses that prove you wrong.

 

[d taylor]

Every time Jesus says someone will be saved He ALWAYS uses the word “believe” in the present tense, never in the past tense. And why do you confine such statements to the gospel of John? This only shows that your ignoring the verses that prove you wrong.

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I do not need another book, The Gospel of John states it purpose for being written was to tell people how to have life (Eternal Life).

Only people who want to develop/create their own way to Eternal Life, would use other books of The Bible.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

The Bible has quite a few verses plainly stating that belief in Jesus gives the person God's free gift of Eternal Life.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

So why is there not at least one verse stating as plainly as verses from The Gospel of John. That to receive eternal life a person must repent

Jesus said "whoever hears my word..." Faith comes from hearing the message about Christ. So, what did Jesus say to the crowd in this account? What was His Word? The Bible does not contradict itself. Jesus also said in John...and it is quite ridiculous to point only to John at the exclusion of the other accounts...it is false doctrine...He said, stop sinning and leave your life of sin.
You cannot just believe in Jesus without knowing what He says about Himself...He is a Savior.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

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I do not need another book, The Gospel of John states it purpose for being written was to tell people how to have life (Eternal Life).

Only people who want to develop/create their own way to Eternal Life, would use other books of The Bible.

Here, you may not be understanding just how wrong we all see you as...this is not a teaching of Christianity, to not use the other books of the Bible...thinking you stumbled across something new?
Jesus said to Satan when being tempted in the desert...man does not live by bread alone, but by every word which proceeds from the mouth of God.
If you see contradictions pray that they be reconciled for your understanding.

 

[d taylor]

Here, you may not be understanding just how wrong we all see you as...this is not a teaching of Christianity, to not use the other books of the Bible...thinking you stumbled across something new?
Jesus said to Satan when being tempted in the desert...man does not live by bread alone, but by every word which proceeds from the mouth of God.
If you see contradictions pray that they be reconciled for your understanding.

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I use and believe all The Bible.

I just do not use parts of The Bible written to believers in teaching them about living the life of a born again child of God and warnings of discipline to the believer who falls into worldly sinful living.
To tell unbelievers how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life and become a born again child of God,

 

[throughfiierytrial]

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I use and believe all The Bible.

I just do not use parts of The Bible written to believers in teaching them about living the life of a born again child of God and warnings of discipline to the believer who falls into worldly sinful living.
To tell unbelievers how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life and become a born again child of God,

Good to hear you use the entire Bible.
Still disagree with you...the words and ministry of Christ is all over the book of John. Words precede your one passage. This statement you pick out include the statement that he who hears my words. There is a turning from sin in believing in Jesus

 

[d taylor]

Good to hear you use the entire Bible.
Still disagree with you...the words and ministry of Christ is all over the book of John. Words precede your one passage. This statement you pick out include the statement that he who hears my words. There is a turning from sin in believing in Jesus

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Prove that from Jesus speaking to the woman at the well. Jesus nowhere states she must turn from sin to receive the Living water He, Jesus was offering her.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

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Prove that from Jesus speaking to the woman at the well. Jesus nowhere states she must turn from sin to receive the Living water He, Jesus was offering her.

Jesus told her about her life of sin and this points to a need for a Savior, her reaction account is given.
Jesus does not pick and choose who are required to repent. It is the need of all:
The woman caught in adultery was told go and leave your life of sin.
I don't understand your issue with this teaching, nor do I understand your thoughts process in arriving at your Biblical conclusions.
Using one's spiritual eyes and ears one sees this truth: God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
That's II Peter 3:9

 

[d taylor]

Jesus told her about her life of sin and this points to a need for a Savior, her reaction account is given.
Jesus does not pick and choose who are required to repent. It is the need of all:
The woman caught in adultery was told go and leave your life of sin.
I don't understand your issue with this teaching, nor do I understand your thoughts process in arriving at your Biblical conclusions.
Using one's spiritual eyes and ears one sees this truth: God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
That's II Peter 3:9

Ok i stated a few post back that we had reached the end of our discussion. But you replied to a post i made to another person.

So i am going to make this one last reply to you and stop my end of the discussion.

Jesus told the women at the well about her having several husbands and now the one is not her husband. So she would recognize Jesus as more than just a man, but as The promised Messiah, so she could believe in Him. Which she did and also told other who Jesus was.

The women caught in adultery was not an evangelistic account. During this account Jesus never tells this women to believe in Him for Eternal Life.

What gives a person God's free gift of Eternal Life, belief in Jesus, anything added to belief is man's added idea of what a person needs to do and is not coming from what God requires which is belief in The Messiah.

Man has added to belief in Jesus (repentance, baptism, bearing fruit, commitment, obedience, saying a prayer, obeying the ten commandments, living a sinless life, helping others, etc..)

If you want to further learn about basically my Biblical approach to The Bible, it can be found here: https://faithalone.org/

 

[Studyman]

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Prove that from Jesus speaking to the woman at the well. Jesus nowhere states she must turn from sin to receive the Living water He, Jesus was offering her.

In your zeal to promote the popular religious philosophy of this world's religions, "Come as you are", you must ignore most of the recorded Words of the Jesus "of the Bible". Even the Words of Christ quoted by John.

10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

But she didn't know God, nor the ONE who God sent and didn't ask for the water.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him "must worship him" in spirit and in truth.

This is the Living Water that Jesus offered. But a man must first ask for it, and then drink it.

Jesus made a man whole who wanted to be healed. What did Jesus say to this man?

"Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

How can this be, as according to the religion you are trying to convert others to, this man "Drank the Living water", and therefore he shall never thirst again, and there is no "Repentance" no change, no "rebirth" required. Is Jesus then lying to this man, by requiring repentance according to the Law and Prophets, the accounts of Matthew, Mark and Luke? And according to the Christ's Own Words in John?

John 6:53 "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

John 3: 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Where is the Living Water you preach to the world is given to men who don't turn away from sin?

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Surely the religious philosophy you have adopted and are now promoting to others, that there is no repentance, no change required by God, no "turning away" from your transgressions to receive the Living water, is a seductive religion and a great marketing strategy to fill the seats of this world's manmade shrines of worship, and truly "many" religious businesses and sects, "who come in Christ's Name" promote it and have become massive religious businesses and corporations followed by "many".

But even if you reject the Spirit of Christ in the Law and Prophets, and the recorded Words of the Christ "of the bible" in Matthew, Luke, Mark and the Christ inspired Letters of Paul and Peter and only use John as your guide, The Words of the Christ quoted by John still expose the popular "Come as you are", "No repentance" religious philosophy you are promoting, as from below (from man) and not above (From God).

My hope is that you might consider "Every Word" of Scripture, and not just those words you can use to justify your particular adopted religion.

 

[d taylor]

In your zeal to promote the popular religious philosophy of this world's religions, "Come as you are", you must ignore most of the recorded Words of the Jesus "of the Bible". Even the Words of Christ quoted by John.

10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

But she didn't know God, nor the ONE who God sent and didn't ask for the water.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him "must worship him" in spirit and in truth.

This is the Living Water that Jesus offered. But a man must first ask for it, and then drink it.

Jesus made a man whole who wanted to be healed. What did Jesus say to this man?

"Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

How can this be, as according to the religion you are trying to convert others to, this man "Drank the Living water", and therefore he shall never thirst again, and there is no "Repentance" no change, no "rebirth" required. Is Jesus then lying to this man, by requiring repentance according to the Law and Prophets, the accounts of Matthew, Mark and Luke? And according to the Christ's Own Words in John?

John 6:53 "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

John 3: 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Where is the Living Water you preach to the world is given to men who don't turn away from sin?

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Surely the religious philosophy you have adopted and are now promoting to others, that there is no repentance, no change required by God, no "turning away" from your transgressions to receive the Living water, is a seductive religion and a great marketing strategy to fill the seats of this world's manmade shrines of worship, and truly "many" religious businesses and sects, "who come in Christ's Name" promote it and have become massive religious businesses and corporations followed by "many".

But even if you reject the Spirit of Christ in the Law and Prophets, and the recorded Words of the Christ "of the bible" in Matthew, Luke, Mark and the Christ inspired Letters of Paul and Peter and only use John as your guide, The Words of the Christ quoted by John still expose the popular "Come as you are", "No repentance" religious philosophy you are promoting, as from below (from man) and not above (From God).

My hope is that you might consider "Every Word" of Scripture, and not just those words you can use to justify your particular adopted religion.

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You are just another in line with people who promote a works based approach to receiving Eternal Life. Noting new here i have heard and read it, 1000's of times.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Ok i stated a few post back that we had reached the end of our discussion. But you replied to a post i made to another person.

So i am going to make this one last reply to you and stop my end of the discussion.

Jesus told the women at the well about her having several husbands and now the one is not her husband. So she would recognize Jesus as more than just a man, but as The promised Messiah, so she could believe in Him. Which she did and also told other who Jesus was.

The women caught in adultery was not an evangelistic account. During this account Jesus never tells this women to believe in Him for Eternal Life.

What gives a person God's free gift of Eternal Life, belief in Jesus, anything added to belief is man's added idea of what a person needs to do and is not coming from what God requires which is belief in The Messiah.

Man has added to belief in Jesus (repentance, baptism, bearing fruit, commitment, obedience, saying a prayer, obeying the ten commandments, living a sinless life, helping others, etc..)

If you want to further learn about basically my Biblical approach to The Bible, it can be found here: Grace Evangelical Society

Ok, I understand your not wanting to post to me any further. My posts about your posts are mostly aimed at reaching the readers...who may be led astray by you.
Jesus' entire ministry is one of evangelism. which He began at the age of about thirty years old saying repent for the Kingdom of Heaven has come near. I quoted II Peter Peter 3:9 which really says it all.
To the woman caught in adultery the message does not somehow change as though God is fickle. His ministry is one of salvation...repentance to that end.
[You write:
Man has added to belief in Jesus (repentance, baptism, bearing fruit, commitment, obedience, saying a prayer, obeying the ten commandments, living a sinless life, helping others, etc..)]
Man finds these teachings in Scripture and you cannot bypass all these Scriptures to arrive at a new conclusion. We could begin a thread addressing. We do have "last hour workers" who will be saved...only God knows the heart.
Your belief system,according to you, stated here: Grace Evangelical Society, might also prove to be enlightening in its refutation. I guess you really did "stumble across something new" as I asked..you stumbled across .a website and this is not the inspired word of God as is the Bible.