Did Christ die for the sin of unbelief ?

[Clare73]

The work of the devil, which unbelief is, cannot render the work of Christ on a sinners behalf ineffective or futile. But thats exactly what people are saying when they claim Christ died for people who still perish in their sins because of unbelief Jn 8:24
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
That unbelief is satan's work producing unbelief is seen in a couple of verses. #1 2 Cor 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
#2 Lk 8:12
Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

So if Jesus died for a person for the intention of saving that person from their sins, and that person nevertheless dies in unbelief

On what Biblical basis do you assert this possibility?

, and never believes and be saved, then the devil rendered Jesus purpose to save ineffective, and gains the victory over the Son of God concerning that soul. Thats why I dont believe a person Christ died for can die in their sins in unbelief !

Reflects misunderstanding of the sovereignty of God in election. . .just as the operation of divine decree is misunderstood.

 

[Brightfame52]

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​

No not when the whole context is read. Calvinism likes to single out a verse and build a theology around it.

But it can be seen where Jesus states anyone who enters by Me. That is anyone who believes in Jesus.

I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

Like I said and showed, you are contrary to scripture

 

[Brightfame52]

On what Biblical basis do you assert this possibility?

Reflects misunderstanding of the sovereignty of God in election. . .just as the operation of divine decree is misunderstood.

You cant see

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Jn 1:29

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Now the sin of the world did involve unbelief. Eve didn't believe the truth of God. God had said in the day that you eat you shall surely die. Observe Gen 2:17

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Now Gen 3:2-4

And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.


4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


as a result of unbelief:


5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

When dealing with Satan, the devil, the tempter, we're faced with a bit of a conundrum.

An agent with "no truth" in him, even when speaking a truth, is still lying. How so? If the devil, a liar, says "I believe" is the devil telling the truth?

If nothing else it's way too ambiguous of a question, but the point stands. A liar can't speak the truth, even when speaking it:

John 8:
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[Brightfame52]

When dealing with Satan, the devil, the tempter, we're faced with a bit of a conundrum.

An agent with "no truth" in him, even when speaking a truth, is still lying. How so? If the devil, a liar, says "I believe" is the devil telling the truth?

If nothing else it's way too ambiguous of a question, but the point stands. A liar can't speak the truth, even when speaking it:

John 8:
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Friend you coming out of left field

 

[Brightfame52]

The only way one for whom Christ died, to die in unbelief, its because unbelief reigned superiorly over the Blood of Christ. Now who wants to make that claim ?

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Friend you coming out of left field

So, the devil tells the truth? Is that where you're going? Or are half truths truth? A quarter truth? How about a word or 2 off truth?

There are reasons that courts insist on whole truths and nothing but

It is unlikely Satan on the witness stand is capable of doing that

 

[Brightfame52]

So, the devil tells the truth? Is that where you're going? Or are half truths truth? A quarter truth? How about a word or 2 off truth?

There are reasons that courts insist on whole truths and nothing but

It is unlikely Satan on the witness stand is capable of doing that

You still coming out of left field

 

[zoidar]

You still coming out of left field

So, the devil tells the truth? Is that where you're going? Or are half truths truth? A quarter truth? How about a word or 2 off truth?

There are reasons that courts insist on whole truths and nothing but

It is unlikely Satan on the witness stand is capable of doing that

He means it has nothing to do with the topic.

 

[Clare73]

You cant see

That assertion and two bucks will get you a cup of coffee.

 

[Brightfame52]

Is unbelief the cause of ones condemnation ?​

Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Its thought in mans religion today that unbelief is the cause of condemnation, however its not, but its the symptom, outcome, and evidence that one is already condemned, not by unbelief but by the law of God.

Mans condemnation came upon him not by his unbelief in Christ, but by his uniformity with adam when he disobeyed Gods Law, Rom 5:18

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Did Adam disobey Gods Law ? Most definitely, no it wasn't the mosaic law but Gods moral law. Many will tell us that the law of God didn't exist at the beginning of creation, but thats ignorance and error, because the scripture is clear that Adam transgressed Rom 5:14

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

And sin is defined as 1 Jn 3:4

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

If there had been no law adam couldn't had sinned because the strength of sin is the Law 1 Cor 15:56

The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.


And had there been no law for adam and man in him, consequently there had been no transgression Rom 5:12-14

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Common sense would have us to realize that a law was transgressed since death had its reign up to the time of Moses, when the mosaic law was instituted

So if folk say there was no law of God and man wasn't under law before Moses, they are in darkness.

 

[Clare73]

Is unbelief the cause of ones condemnation ?​

Yes. . .

Unbelief in the promise (Ge 3:15, 15:5, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16) is the cause of condemnation.

Jn 3:18
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Its thought in mans religion today that unbelief is the cause of condemnation, however its not, but its the symptom, outcome, and evidence that one is already condemned, not by unbelief but by the law of God.
Mans condemnation came upon him not by his unbelief in Christ, but by his uniformity with adam when he disobeyed Gods Law, Rom 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Did Adam disobey Gods Law ? Most definitely, no it wasn't the mosaic law but Gods moral law. Many will tell us that the law of God didn't exist at the beginning of creation, but thats ignorance and error, because the scripture is clear that Adam transgressed Rom 5:14

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
And sin is defined as 1 Jn 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
If there had been no law adam couldn't had sinned because the strength of sin is the Law 1 Cor 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Yes, Adam disobeyed God's law (command), which caused his physical death.

And had there been no law for adam and man in him, consequently there had been no transgression Rom 5:12-14
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed (taken into account) when there is no law.

Sin is transgression of the law (1Jn 3:4).

Prior to the law, what sin was in the world when there was no law to sin against?

What sin was imputed (accounted) to man when there was no law to sin against?

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

The wages of sin is death (Ro 6:23).

Death reigned over them that had not sinned. . .a figure of him that was to come. (Ro 5:14)

Put on yer thinkin' caps. . .you have just stumbled into the conundrum of Adam's sin imputed to all mankind.
Ro 5:18: "The result of one trespass (of Adam) was condemnation for all men."

And. . . sinful Adam was a pattern of the righteous Christ, a figure of him that was to come.
That's not me talking, that's Paul talking.

In Ro 5:12-14, Paul is explaining (v. 14) why, in the light of "where there is no law there is no sin" (Ro 5:13),
1) those between Adam and Moses, when there was no law to sin against, died anyway (when all death was due to sin, Ro 6:23),
2) Adam was the pattern of the one to come (the righteous Jesus Christ). . .!!!

Common sense (red flag) would have us to realize that a law was transgressed since death had its reign up to the time of Moses, when the mosaic law was instituted

Word of God would have us believe that no law was transgressed between Adam and Moses because no law had been given.

So. . .the common sense of "death had its reign up to the time of Moses" has to mean there is law from Adam to Moses, even though
the word of God states to the contrary; i.e., "sin is not taken into account when there is no law." (Ro 5:13)

You would have us believe that common sense actually trumps the word of God?
You're kidding, right?
That's a contra-Biblical hermeneutic.

So if folk say there was no law of God and man wasn't under law before Moses, they are in darkness.

Are you sure you want to indict those who believe the word of God over the word of man (common sense)?

Deadly slope, my man.

So what is going on here? Paul is presenting
1) the imputation of Adam's sin (which caused the deaths of all between Adam and Moses) to all those born of Adam, as
2) a pattern of the one to come; i.e., the imputation of Christ's righteousness/justification(Ro 3:28) to all those born of Christ('s Spirit).

 

[Brightfame52]

@Clare73

Yes. . .

Unbelief in the promise (Ge 3:15, 15:5, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16) is the cause of condemnation.

I will agree in that sense, however that condemnation was taken care of for the elect by the Lamb of God right here Jn 1:29

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Rom 5:18

therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

So this confirms my point, unbelief , disobedience for the elect has been taken away, so they can never die in unbelief Jn 8:24

The only ones who are going to die in their sins and unbelief are the non elect whom Christ wasn't a Surety for.

 

[Brightfame52]

So final unbelieving goes to show that one is under condemnation of the Law, a law that Christ didnt satisfy for since He didn't die for them as one of His Sheep. Since Christ didn't substitute for them God still charges them as a transgressor of the law, as such, the Law condemns them without a Saviour to believe in.

 

[zoidar]

So final unbelieving goes to show that one is under condemnation of the Law, a law that Christ didnt satisfy for since He didn't die for them as one of His Sheep. Since Christ didn't substitute for them God still charges them as a transgressor of the law, as such, the Law condemns them without a Saviour to believe in.

Sounds confusing... How then can it be whoever believes will be saved?

 

[Brightfame52]

Sounds confusing... How then can it be whoever believes will be saved?

Hey I cant help you if its confusing, thats between you and God

 

[zoidar]

Hey I cant help you if its confusing, thats between you and God

Nope!

 

[Brightfame52]

See the Truth be told, unbelief is the consequence of being already condemned. Faith in Christ will not be given to them whom Christ didn't come to save and whom He did not lay down His Life for, namely the non sheep, since its expressly stated He came to lay down His Life for the Sheep Jn 10:10-11

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they[The Sheep] might have life, and that they[The Sheep] might have it more abundantly.

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

So unto the Sheep it will be given unto them to Believe on His Name Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Why ? Because being of His Sheep He lay down His Life for them and satisfied for them Gods Law and Justice, hence the Law doesn't condemned them, and they cant be of them whom are already condemned, having a right therefor to believe on His Name Jn 1:12 ! The non sheep have not this right and so are already condemned, which their unbelief gives evidence of !