Tinker Grey said:

Oops

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That is alright. I'm not the only Christian guy here into astronomy, the sciences in general, and physics. @dlamberth and @sjastro enjoy astronomy as well.

tall73 said:

Southern Baptists are the largest Baptist convention. The Southern Baptist Baptist Faith and Message 2000 states:

The husband and wife are of equal worth before God, since both are created in God’s image. The marriage relationship models the way God relates to His people. A husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church. He has the God-given responsibility to provide for, to protect, and to lead his family. A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ. She, being in the image of God as is her husband and thus equal to him, has the God-given responsibility to respect her husband and to serve as his helper in managing the household and nurturing the next generation.​

The American Baptist Churches USA policy statement On Women and Men as Partners in Church and Society takes a different view. The document is rather long. Here is a key phrase related to the topic:

We affirm that the practice of partnership between women and men can be most effectively taught in the home with the church's active help. This means that the father and the mother should model mutual love and respect for the gifts and qualities that each brings to their marriage and the home they have established.​

The purpose of this thread is to discuss what Scripture says on the topic. Should wives submit to husbands? Should wives and husbands be equal partners?

The topic is NOT about whether women should be preachers, priests, elders, overseers, bishops, pastors, deacons, should teach, etc. That may be a topic for another thread for Baptists at some point. But this is looking at the relation between wives and husbands.

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I think where we go off the rails with this whole issue is applying our human thinking to God's rules. That is, we see a manager as more valuable than the people he manages. That's not how God sees it. So yes, the woman submits to her husband, but the husband also submits to his wife. They just do it differently. They literally have different roles and bring different strengths and weaknesses to the table. Where I am weak, my wife is strong, and vice versa. Men are different than women. And that is how God designed us. A couple that works with this understanding will be a MUCH happier and more productive couple than one that looks not just for equality, but for "equity". The latter ain't happening. At least, not for long.

I had to drive 90 minutes from my job a few years ago to get rid of a large cow snake that got into our living room that was scaring my wife to death. Meanwhile, I'll be working in my shop and around noon, completely by surprise, my wife walks in with an absolutely delicious sandwich and a glass of water. And no, we're not newlyweds. We're 70 and have been married for 26 years. The honeymoon simply never ended.

sjastro said:

Arp 245 is part of a collection of merging and interacting galaxies catalogued by Halton Arp - Wikipedia
Technically Arp 245 is comprised of NGCs 2992 and 2993, the other small galaxy in the field RFGC 1621 does not interact gravitationally and is further out at 125 million light years.

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Wow, I never heard of this Halton Arp guy. The RFGC 1621 galaxy is all alone, it needs some friends. It is a third wheel.

essentialsaltes said:

It does not suffice. Not all geologists are atheists. They are not a subset of atheists. Nor are haberdashers or lighthouse keepers for that matter.

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It will have to suffice, regardless if someone would demand otherwise.

I was speaking of the general distinction of difference between atheist versus creation scientists.

You added your own descriptives that are beyond what I would think of any scientists to be. I will not have my words nitpicked at when I've clearly used generalizations that should suffice as tolerable to everyone.

Brihaha said:

At least Smokin Joe hasn't created the campaign slogan "Lock him up"...yet.

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I always suspected he was smoking something. You suppose he got the crack from his son? Do you think that was Joes nose candy in the Whitehouse?

Brihaha said:

All of a sudden it's deplorable to convict criminals huh?
Entscheide dich .

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Isn’t that how Putin won his election. It wasn’t deplorable to jail his opponent either and OOPS he accidentally died. Poor luck.

Sie müssen beide Augen öffnen, um ein vollständiges Bild zu sehen

tall73 said:

It is not a "not true Scotman" kind of argument.

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It is. Because you are saying that the implications of the ACTUAL reading do not lead to abuse, and ignoring all the instances where abusers cite this actual reading as justification for their abuse. It's a "no true Scotsman" in the sense of, no reading I disagree with is an ACTUAL reading.

tall73 said:

And the issue you have expressed throughout this thread is that any dynamic where there is greater submission from the wife to the husband is abuse.

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Actually, I have said something slightly more nuanced. I have said that control of the wife by the husband is abuse. And that one-sided submission sets up dynamics of control.

tall73 said:

You have not dealt with what the text says.

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I have. I have insisted that what it says can only be rightly understood as one part of the mutual submission indicated in the previous verse.

I have put forward and explained my position. I am not interested in discussing Paul's and Peter's arguments in detail.

Ceallaigh said:

Kissing and praying to icons is something that is taught and is compulsory

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False

Ceallaigh said:

I'm just stating facts.

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Incorrect facts

You know, people should make sure they know the facts before they criticize.

Either go to a community college and get a degree in RN, RT, Radiation Tech or Ultrasound.

Or go to trade such as HVAC, Electrician, Carpenter or Plumber and start your own business.

Create a 4 year plan and finish all this in 4 years.

Volunteer at your church on Sundays and be of good cheer in everything you do.

Take care of yourself. Get sleep, drink water and workout 3x per week.

Get rid of all immoral filth of the world such as music, social media and movies.

AlexB23 said:

Haha, this is @dlamberth 's thread. But yes, I think of Russian interference every time I see the title as well.

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Oops

Tinker Grey said:

@AlexB23, could you edit the title of this thread? I think of Russia every time I see it.

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Haha, this is @dlamberth 's thread. But yes, I think of Russian interference every time I see the title as well.

Pommer said:

This is the best darned hoax I’ve ever seen!

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It's not that good. What is impressive is how well they've shut down anyone that disagrees with them. But even then, what is impressive is not that they did it, but where they did it. i.e. the "free world". I mean, it is/was common practice in places like North Korea, the USSR, China, Nazi Germany, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc.

This is new.

They also did this with Covid and "transgenderism" (though with less success with the latter because it was simply too preposterous).

More Trump allies, including Mark Meadows, plead not guilty in Arizona​

The former White House chief of staff — along with Mike Roman, who worked on Donald Trump’s 2020 campaign — pleaded not guilty to charges stemming from their alleged efforts to try to subvert Joe Biden’s win.

Most of the 18 defendants in the 2020 election case have already entered not guilty pleas, including former Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani, former state party GOP chair Kelli Ward and the pro-Trump electors who participated in a strategy that prosecutors say sought to deny Biden his rightful electoral victory. On Thursday, state Sen. Jake Hoffman (R) also pleaded not guilty. He, too, appeared by video, with artwork of Ronald Reagan donning a cowboy hat displayed behind him. Later in the day, Hoffman and another co-defendant, state Sen. Anthony Kern (R), were in the crowd when Trump made his first appearance in the battleground state since his criminal conviction in New York. To cheers, the former president called his trial “rigged” and said that “there was no crime.”

Trump was not charged in Arizona but was described in the indictmentas an unindicted co-conspirator.

tonychanyt said:

What do you mean? Can you give an example?

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PI = Que sera sera

I don't know about that, OP, but it seems the man is always perfect. Whenever you meet a couple, the woman can be very average but the man is always very charismatic, good-looking, good job, well-liked, an ambitious person, smart, very funny, & a born leader, a smooth talker, usually has had it easy - it's expected he's to be married & everyone knows he will. I don't have a lot of those in the traditional sense. It seems men who struggle w/ women don't have those in the traditional sense.

So to be more positive: we must accept it's like this b/c of God's good design

I'm in same boat as you, OP. I have it pretty well & God has met all my needs - so praise the Lord - except this one he never has. This is my 'curse.' They say everyone has one. Paul calls it a thorn in the flesh. It's meant to remind you you are not perfect & draw you near to God.

timewerx said:

Seriously, I'm now finding it too toxic to watch any big buck Hollywood movie. They always seem to pitch anything that makes you spend lots of money for no real purpose at all.

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Same. I've never been big into Hollywood productions b/c many seem to have messages contrary to God's truth - how many movies preach you need to have a girlfriend or be married for example - but lately I've been just wanting to swear them off entirely. I don't want to say it's wrong to watch movies but we need to be aware every movie is trying to push something

timewerx said:

There are still places on Earth where women aren't looking to own expensive house and stuff.

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That can be a problem too b/c then they settle w/ men who can't provide their material needs.

rita727 said:

In short, recently I felt led to fast and pray for 30 days. I've broken the fast early 2 or 3 times already. At around day 3.

My issue is that I feel so pointless on this fast. Whether listening to the Word, praying, journaling, meditating.... I don't feel like I hear Him. I know others say that they become more sensitive to His voice. I'm not having that experience right now. I feel like I'm checking boxes and not getting anywhere.

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Hello,

I just fasted for the first time last week and wanted to share with you about how it went for me so that maybe it will help encourage you a little.

My wife and I needed an answer to something that has to do with her future job.

My wife was having a tough day. The night before we went to sleep we prayed hard for about an hour and read a few scriptures.

The next morning while I was driving to work I thought about the idea of fasting. I have never done it before so I reached out to my friend who is a pastor about how to do it. I also reached out to one of my mentors who sent me a few videos about fasting in the past.

I start work at 7AM and carry a prayer journal.
In my prayer journal I meditated and prayed about

Mark 11:23
"I tell you THE TRUTH, you can say to this mountain,
'may you be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and IT WILL HAPPEN.
But you MUST REALLY BEALIVE IT WILL HAPPEN and have NO DOUBT IN YOUR HEART".

The rules I had was no water until 3PM and no meal until 7PM.

I wrote down that I will not stop this fast until we get a response about her job.

I was ready to go as long as I had to.

I didn't tell my wife or anyone about this fast. I kept walking around work and repeating this in my head and out loud.

By around 6PM that same day my wife texted me that she got an email response about her job.

This was my first fast and it lasted less than 12 hours!!! I could not believe this and before this fast I asked for clarity of a couple other things and they were all answered the following days/week.

Just wanted to share this with you so that it may help give you a better idea.

Miracles happen today.

Mark Quayle said:

Of course. But that is not God's judgement. It is only how we think God will judge.

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Yes, my point exactly. If philosophically free will = responsible/culpable, the image of God we hold to be true will predetermine fundamental meanings of right and wrong in deliberations of accuse/excuse, grace and cynicism. The higher the bar could be interpreted in both terms of both mercy and wrath, the more strict or quick to condemn, the greater the chance of hypocritical judgment. Hence the philosophical meaning of free will is utterly lost in semantics.

A defiled conscience could find fault where there actually isn't any and think of it as a meticulous high standard of justice. A person could be easily offended mistaking the exposing of their pride as offending their honor. The omission of a more righteous act that could have been done in lieu of the righteous act that was performed, could be counted as sin, etc...

Mark Quayle said:

You may be right, though the specifics of how that entity intrudes or influences are not well described (as far as I know) in Scripture.

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It looks like the spirit of Satan is a vain image of god projected by the creature. After all, it was through subtlety that the serpent both manifested a doubt in God's intentions towards mankind and also caused the desire to improve upon one's station. Cain felt put down when his offering was not respected as much as Abels. He took it personally and God said it was sin at the door of his heart, apparently manipulating his emotions. Satan spoke to God as if God was naive about Job.

I see a tempter, accuser, slanderer.

Mark Quayle said:

I think you would agree, though, that we (believers, even) also do that to ourselves without sometimes even realizing we do so, to ease conscience or to be able to talk ourselves into doing what we would not otherwise do.

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NO! Not me.
Sounds to me like you're describing the difference between rationalizing immoral actions and learning from one's mistakes. Jesus said wisdom is justified/vindicated by her children.

Mark Quayle said:

Of course! I agree completely with that statement. We (believers) do that even intermittently when we "take over the reins" from God, supposing that we are not submitting ourselves to enslavement to sin, when we do so. We like to pretend we can always repent and no harm done.

In fact, in a sense, any disobedience is, or demonstrates, Idolatry.

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I think the will of the flesh is appeased by squandering virtue.

The Barbarian said:

Even in the 1970s, the great majority of climatologists knew warming was on the way. Even oil company scientists knew this and some of those companies made plans to deal with the problems, even as they were denying the fact. But there are still dissenters. Some of them actually make a great deal of money from companies with a finanacial interest in denying climate change:

Soon had served as one of the few climate deniers with a science background referenced by climate-denying politicians. The news further debunks Exxon's claim that the company had stopped funding climate deniers in 2007, as Exxon provided more than $300,000 in funding to Soon

Exxon’s Climate Denial History: A Timeline

A review of Exxon's knowledge and subsequent denial of climate change.

www.greenpeace.org

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Red herring.

I will not be answering those different persons who've posted to me. I am not a marathon poster like others may be. I am not one who can make multiple replies to several different posters in one sitting. Everyone posts as they have time and according to the level of interest in the topic.

I've responded as much as I care to according to the title of the thread and OP opening topic but as the flow drifted from that into an area that I prefer not to discuss, so I'm removing myself for now from any further postings on this thread.

Nithavela said:

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He's got a rally in Vegas tomorrow. It's cooling off a tiny bit, but...

Las Vegas sees second straight day of record-breaking temperatures​

FredVB said:

There is this strange view that corporations should be free from constraints from the state, and that does impact environment and safety, to a huge degree, but that any individuals are to yet be subject to regulation from the state. Like people need government to regulate them and the government would be made up of people, and people need regulation... and we don't need to worry about corruption in process!

God is who we need, an unseared conscience can and should lead us toward God to know God's will that would be revealed for us. The state is a bad replacement for that.

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Find us one (1) person who believes corporations
should be free of state constraints.

You cannot.

The idea is ridiculous.

Making rest of the post not worth a glance.

The Barbarian said:

"I saw it on You Tube; it has to be true." Unfortunately, the internet is flypaper for conspiracy buffs.

And yes, we live in interesting times.

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I read it in a book I got from the library, so it must be true!

i.e. that is a straw man.

rambot said:

Yes.....That old chestnut.

99% of Climate Research now

To be fair, it isn't necessarily saying SCIENTISTS...it is saying that there have been 4 papers published that are skeptical of AGW...out of 3000.
So 99% of research indicators suggest global warming.

Out of curiousity: Would you expect 100% of research to support it?


Of course, to someone informed and abreast (circa 2004), that would be new news. This was published in 2021 if you're curious.

Sidebar:
I only was willing to dedicate a few minutes to watch the movie. She is talking politics in that minute and NOT science. If you give me some timestamps where she ACTUALLY addresses science, I'll take a watch.

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I'm surprised there were even four. Don't those authors value their careers?

AlexB23 said:

Yeah, but Chernobyl was due to negligence, same with the water issues in the US. But, I pray that we do not have a Chernobyl-style incident.

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We really lucked out with Fukushima though; not really any negligence just natural geology.
If you watch the Netflix series "The Days" on how it went down and what happened, it's just nightmare after nightmare after nightmare
like the worst day at work ever trying to halt was was happening

Login to view embedded media
And it never gets better... it just suddenly... stops.
And they don't know why; like they literally don't know why Japan is still inhabitable today, other than bona-fide miracle I guess,
because that's what it seems like. It shouldn't be. Human intervention was *NOT* working.

The more reactors, the more danger of incidents like that, they've either got to be super hardened to where they can survive something like earthquakes or artillery shells or else we might not be so lucky next time.

BNR32FAN said:

If you put the same scrutiny on the rest of the Bible as you do on the genealogies you can’t actually learn anything from it

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Funny, because I'm able to come to reasonably certain interpretations while engaging in this level of scrutiny. Though it involves making assumptions about what the text is to determine what conventions to use, as I am only human. And I have reasons for those assumptions that satisfy me, and understand that not everyone will agree with my assumptions so their interpretation is no less valid than mine.

BNR32FAN said:

. You can’t formulate a single doctrine or belief on anything if you can’t accept statements that are plainly stated for what they actually say.

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If we took Psalms literally in the way you are trying to take Genesis literally and took the statements at face value, we'd be in a lot of trouble. For example, where the Bible says God is a shield does that mean God is literally a shield? The statement is plain, so why don't we take it literally?

At least in my part of the infosphere, the juror thing was over before it even got started. I didn't even bother to pre-bunk it.

Perhaps I wasn't quite as sanguine as...


But, it looks like we have at least another news' cycle's worth of...