Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath

[ozso]

Maybe, but posting what you did Doesn’t show where Sabbat blessings made an error.

Unorthodox doctrine is in error by default.

 

[ozso]

Unless you learn the original languages of the Bible, you are relying on the translation of uninspired translators to do a good job of giving you God's word and not their own uninspired view of God's word. Our prophetess, Ellen G. White, encouraged us by revealing the Bible's design to overcome these obstacles.

I appreciate that you admit reliance upon EGW instead of denying it and trying to hide it like most of the others do.

 

[guevaraj]

I appreciate that you admit reliance upon EGW instead of denying it and trying to hide it like most of the others do.

Brother, her inspiration is the same as Paul's correction of the Sabbath in the letter to the Hebrews about another "day" of rest without her or the church understanding the message for the future.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

My church has not changed "when it is" that evening falls. As the next step in her message below, after learning that evening means sunset, the church has kept the wrong tradition of Judaism since Joshua, expressed by God through Paul above. The seventh day of the week is half a day too late to enter the Sabbath near Jerusalem, as Joshua misunderstood God's Sabbath, due to the earlier Sabbath in Jerusalem, which falls half a day before the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem. Judaism has the days of the week wrong because of the earlier Sabbath in Jerusalem.

I saw that it is even so: “From even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath.” Said the angel: “Take the word of God, read it, understand, and ye cannot err. Read carefully, and ye shall there find what even is, and when it is.” I asked the angel if the frown of God had been upon His people for commencing the Sabbath as they had. I was directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath, and followed the people of God up to this time, but did not see that the Lord was displeased, or frowned upon them. I inquired why it had been thus, that at this late day we must change the time of commencing the Sabbath. Said the angel: “Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet.” Said the angel: “If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject.” I saw that it was in the minds of some that the Lord had shown that the Sabbath commenced at six o'clock, when I had only seen that it commenced at “even,” and it was inferred that even was at six. I saw that the servants of God must draw together, press together. (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, Page 116)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[ozso]

Brother, her inspiration is the same as Paul's correction of the Sabbath in the letter to the Hebrews about another "day" of rest without her or the church understanding the message for the future.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

My church has not changed "when it is" that evening falls. As the next step in her message below, after learning that evening means sunset, the church has kept the wrong tradition of Judaism since Joshua, expressed by God through Paul above. The seventh day of the week is half a day too late to enter the Sabbath near Jerusalem, as Joshua misunderstood God's Sabbath, due to the earlier Sabbath in Jerusalem, which falls half a day before the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem. Judaism has the days of the week wrong because of the earlier Sabbath in Jerusalem.

I saw that it is even so: “From even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath.” Said the angel: “Take the word of God, read it, understand, and ye cannot err. Read carefully, and ye shall there find what even is, and when it is.” I asked the angel if the frown of God had been upon His people for commencing the Sabbath as they had. I was directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath, and followed the people of God up to this time, but did not see that the Lord was displeased, or frowned upon them. I inquired why it had been thus, that at this late day we must change the time of commencing the Sabbath. Said the angel: “Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet.” Said the angel: “If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject.” I saw that it was in the minds of some that the Lord had shown that the Sabbath commenced at six o'clock, when I had only seen that it commenced at “even,” and it was inferred that even was at six. I saw that the servants of God must draw together, press together. (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, Page 116)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Ah yes, a 19th century American prophet receiving messages from an angel speaking in 16th century English. Just like Joseph Smith's experience.

 

[guevaraj]

Ah yes, a 19th century American prophet receiving messages from an angel speaking in 16th century English. Just like Joseph Smith's experience.

Brother, I was visited by some Mormons who told me that Joseph Smith was a priest after Melchizedek. They did not come back after I told them that this was not possible. I knew he was a false prophet because only Jesus is king and priest “forever” and there can be no other. He put himself in Jesus’ place.

This Melchizedek was king of the city of Salem and also a priest of God Most High. When Abraham was returning home after winning a great battle against the kings, Melchizedek met him and blessed him. Then Abraham took a tenth of all he had captured in battle and gave it to Melchizedek. The name Melchizedek means “king of justice,” and king of Salem means “king of peace.” There is no record of his father or mother or any of his ancestors—no beginning or end to his life. He remains a priest forever, resembling the Son of God. (Hebrews 7:1-3 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Bob S]

Jesus did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17-18).

Did Jesus fulfil the prophesies concerning His coming? I assume you will answer yes. So, that would mean that Jesus brought to an end the prophesies concerning Him. Jesus own word were I came to fulfil the Law and the prophets. If He brought to an end the prophesies then because He stated He also in the same sentence He had to have meant He brought the Law to an end. You cannot have it both ways now can you? Paul states in 2Cor3:6-11 that the 10 commandments were only temporary. The King James version states that they were "done away". The Laws of the old covenant stopped at Calvary where Jeus introduced the new and better covenant of Grace. He ratified it with His own blood. 2Cor 3:6-11 also states that the Holy Spirit replaced the 10 commandments. Mankind is now guided by the Blessed Holy Spirit not some commands that were written on stones that Israel filed to keep.

The moral principles of the Law, such as loving God and loving others, are eternal and unchanging, reflecting God’s holy character. Jesus affirmed that these commandments remain central, summarizing them in Matthew 22:37-40.

Have you been reading the writings of Ellen White, the prophet of the SDAs? She taught that the 10 commandments reflects God's character. That is a completely false statement. Are you aware that there is not one word in all of the 10 commandments that asked the Israelites to love God or their fellow man. Is Jesus God? Have you studied John 15:10 14. Love is the great theme of all of the New Covenant teachings

While the ceremonial aspects of the Old Covenant (like sacrifices) were fulfilled in Christ, the moral law continues to apply to believers today. Jesus deepened the understanding of the Law, focusing on the heart behind the actions (Matthew 5:21-22).

Not one jot or one tittle would pass from the Law until ALL Jesus came to do was fulfilled. If you think, for some reason, you can separate out part of the Law you are not understanding what Jesus said. Until Jesus brought to an end to the old covenant with its over 613 laws not on jot could be removed from the Law.

The moral law is not obsolete but is now lived out by the power of the Holy Spirit, who enables believers to fulfill God’s righteous standards. In Christ, we find the ultimate fulfillment of the Law, as we live in love and holiness. All scriptures point to this.

Moral laws are forever. Israel's Sabbaths were ceremonial. The ceremonial laws were for one nation, Israel. Not one other nation has been instructed by God to observe any day.

Also the covenant is not expired but renewed in a better way,

Is that what scripture tells us? Where did you pick up that tidbit of falsehood?

first to the Jews see Jeremiah 31:31-34. But later, remember Jesus sent his disciples to preach the gospel ( everything he told them and did ) to all the world, to those who love God and do His will. I hope you will understand this one day and decide to open your heart.


Peace

Open my heart to what you are proclaiming? My heart is open to the real truth. I, at one time, was indoctrinated to what you are posting. I began studying the Word in place of trusting the doctrines of a church that was based on a woman's false visions.

 

[HIM]

Unorthodox doctrine is in error by default.

Red herring and subjective.

 

[HIM]

Brother, you keep trying to make a translation error into the foundation of your argument about the message of Hebrews chapter 4. The "good news" spoken of in the passage of those who first heard about the Sabbath when they ate manna with Joshua is not the gospel of Jesus that came after David, as the King James version mistranslated because they misidentified Joshua as Jesus. The "rest" spoken of in the passage is the Sabbath "day" of rest and not the Gospel of Jesus as you say.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news (not the Gospel of Jesus as in the KJV)—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news (not the Gospel of Jesus as in the KJV) failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Please address the points about the context of the passages cited to you. And the arguments that have been presented that show your errors You are not presently doing so. You said they did not have access to the Gospel of Jesus that is the theme of Hebrews three and four.

​

Those with Joshua who first heard this "good news" (mistranslated by the KJV as the Gospel of Jesus) of the Sabbath "day" of rest did not have access to the Gospel of Jesus. The Gospel of Jesus came way after David for us to be compared to those who ate manna about anything other than the Sabbath. The KJV made the message seem to be about the present after Jesus when it is a message of a past mistake by Joshua in understanding the Sabbath.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

And this is the response which shows that the Spiritual life which is the rest to which Hebrews 3 and 4 speak was.

You are not addressing the post and the facts it show in respect to the contextual flow and your errors. You are just talking over it without addressing what is posted to you. What is really bad now is @JesusFollowerForever thinks your post is informative. And that is really an issue considering you haven't derived your dogma from the text cited.

The gospel rest we have in Christ is being cleansed and forgiven of sin. And living though and of His Spirit. This Spirit led life, the rest that Heb 3 and 4 bring out is what the New Covenant speaks. And this indeed was preach and was available to them in Moses' time, for God commanded Moses to make another covenant with the children of Israel. Beside the covenant made with them in Sinia of Horeb. This is seen in Deut 29:1.


Deut 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.
Deut 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.



And then He said, For the Lord will circumcise your heart and the heart of thy seed. For this commandment I command you this day, To hearken unto the voice of the Lord and keep His commandments AND Statutes contained in the Book of the Law and turn unto the Lord. This is not far from thee nor hidden. But the word is in thy heart and in thy mouth that ye do it. That is the word of faith in which we preach.




Deut 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deut 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deut 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.


Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

You ignore the post by not addressing the facts shared.

This is your manner so far though. You did here also. You said the day to which Joshua was speaking was the Seventh Day Sabbath. You were shown it isn't by the vary passage and ignored it.

Brother, the Gospel of Jesus does not fit the context of another “day”. A "day" Joshua was prevented from entering with manna by keeping the seventh day of the week near Jerusalem for 40 years by an “oath” that he later entered within Jerusalem without manna until the time of Jesus, without understanding God's true day of rest to give Israel the biblical Sabbath free of human tradition.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

But what about verses 6-8?

Verse 6 goes back to what verse two brought out. That some had not heeded His voice in respect to sin through Christ and His Spirit and have been hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. And therefore have not entered into His rest of the Spirit which is the Gospel. This brings us to verses 7 and 8 which is a call to repentance from this hardened state. He, through the Spirit says, again He limiteth a certain day, saying in David,.

And that certain day is Today, RIGHTY NOW!, As it is said, Today, RIGHT NOW. if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts and heed to the Spirit through Christ. For if Joshua leading them into the promised land had given this Rest in Christ, then David would not afterward spoken of another day. And that Day is today, RIGHT Now if you will hear His voice as verse 7 brings out.


Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

And that brings us to verses 9 and 10. These verses are said in context to verses 4-5.

How do we know?

For one it is the first time the Greek word translated rest in Heb 4:9 is used. And as you probably know it means Keeping of a Sabbath, Sabbath keeping, Sabbath rest, observance.

This fact brings us back to verses 4 and 5 speaking of a seventh day which is the Sabbath, not 7 and 8 and it's call to repentance. In that verses 4 and 5 say that he speaks again of the seventh day IF we have entered into the rest which is the Gospel. For we that have entered into his rest which is the Gospel ALSO, in addition to that, also ceases from his own work AS. just like God did from His.


Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbath keeping) to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

And you did it here also where you said the rest in Hebrews for is the Seventh Day of Creation. The response to that claim shows it wasn't. And you just ignored it.

Brothers, the passage tells us what “rest” is being spoken of by telling us that it is the “rest” of the seventh day of creation

​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

The Context starts in chapter 2. Please follow along

Jesus succors, helps us that are tempted. Wherefore, because of this, we are called to consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus. Who is faithful over all His House, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and rejoicing of the joyful expectation firm unto the end. So hear His voice now when you are tempted. Harden not your hearts as in the day of temptation in the wilderness. For some who had heard did provoke and he was grieved due to their sin, so their carcasses fell in the wilderness and they did not enter into the promise land, the fruit of heeding to His voice, His rest due to their evil heart of unbelief hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. So fear lest any of us should come short of entering into His rest. For the GOSPEL this rest, the Good News was preached to us as well as unto them. But it did not profit them due to them departing from the living God, not heeding His voice because of the deceitfulness of sin. But we which have believed do enter into the rest, the Gospel and thereby are succored when we are tempted because we heed His voice. This rest for which the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. Including the works for the rest which we have believed enter, which is the Gospel.

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, the Jews memorized the Bible from childhood and still kept human traditions in contradiction to the word of God because they preferred those traditions over the word of God. You may like what a preacher says, but there is no guarantee that it is the word of God unless it comes through the prophets. The Roman Catholic Church did not learn from the mistake of the Jews and has gone its own way, collecting even more human traditions than the Jews, in contradiction to the word of God.

Indeed, the Sovereign LORD never does anything until he reveals his plans to his servants the prophets. (Amos 3:7 NLT)​

Unless you learn the original languages of the Bible, you are relying on the translation of uninspired translators to do a good job of giving you God's word and not their own uninspired view of God's word. Our prophetess, Ellen G. White, encouraged us by revealing the Bible's design to overcome these obstacles.

I saw that God had especially guarded the Bible, yet when copies of it were few, learned men had in some instances changed the words, thinking that they were making it more plain, when in reality they were mystifying that which was plain, by causing it to lean to their established views, which were governed by tradition. But I saw that the Word of God, as a whole, is a perfect chain, one portion linking into and explaining another. True seekers for truth need not err; for not only is the Word of God plain and simple in declaring the way of life, but the Holy Spirit is given as a guide in understanding the way to life therein revealed. (Early Writings, pages 220-221)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, in the New Covenant, it is God who puts his way, (law, path, Torah) in our minds and hearts

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 8:11 - Good News Translation

None of them will have to teach their friends or tell their neighbors, ‘Know the Lord.’ For they will all know me, from the least to the greatest.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[trophy33]

Ok, this one should be easy.

Who was the Sabbath made for according to Jesus?

Following your logic, please provide one verse to answer this simple question.

I know what verse you have in mind, but your question is a misunderstanding of the verse. The context is not about "for whom was the Sabbath created?", but about "can Jesus and his disciples break the Sabbath?".

When you change your view of the context (from the Ellen White's teaching to the original Jewish one), your question will lose meaning.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I know what verse you have in mind, but your question is a misunderstanding of the verse. The context is not about "for whom was the Sabbath created?", but about "can Jesus and his disciples break the Sabbath?".

When you change your view of the context (from the Ellen White's teaching to the original Jewish one), your question will lose meaning.

Who created the Sabbath? Was the Lord of the Sabbath, the Creator not the one who is able to decide if the apostles broke God's Sabbath? Did the Pharisees have more authority than the Creator to decide?

Anway, I hope you can see from the inability to answer this simple question that God's Word cannot be forced into one verse.

 

[Leaf473]

Ok, this one should be easy.

Who was the Sabbath made for according to Jesus?

Following your logic, please provide one verse to answer this simple question.

I'll dive in

The Sabbath was made for humans

I think most people know the standard scripture reference by heart

This looks like a good thing to post
Exodus 16:23
He said to them, “This is that which the Lord has spoken, ‘Tomorrow is a solemn rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake that which you want to bake, and boil that which you want to boil; and all that remains over lay up for yourselves to be kept until the morning

 

[trophy33]

Who created the Sabbath? Was the Lord of the Sabbath, the Creator not the one who is able to decide if the apostles broke God's Sabbath? Did the Pharisees have more authority than the Creator to decide?

Anway, I hope you can see from the inability to answer this simple question that God's Word cannot be forced into one verse.

Again, you must realize that the context of the verse is a dispute between Jesus and other Jews. Its inside their tradition and culture.

And that the point of the text is not to tell us that we must all keep the Jewish Sabbath, but to tell us that the Son of Man has an authority to not keep it. You cannot just take one Greek word translation and create a diametrically different context for it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Again, you must realize that the context of the verse is a dispute between Jesus and other Jews. Its inside their tradition and culture.

And that the point of the text is not to tell us that we must all keep the Sabbath, but to tell us that the Son of Man has an authority to not keep it.

I am Lord of the Sabbath- means get rid of it. Thats nonsensical.

But believe what you wish, it all gets sorted out soon enough.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Speaking of the Sabbath- Happy Sabbath all! I pray you all have a blessed day.

 

[HIM]

Again, you must realize that the context of the verse is a dispute between Jesus and other Jews. Its inside their tradition and culture.

And that the point of the text is not to tell us that we must all keep the Jewish Sabbath, but to tell us that the Son of Man has an authority to not keep it.

What church teaches that of that text?

 

[HIM]

Speaking of the Sabbath- Happy Sabbath all! I pray you all have a blessed day.

Happy Sabbath SabbathBlessings!

 

[ozso]

Subjective red herring. Orthodoxy is a subjective topic

The subject of the thread is what? Why some don't keep the Sabbath?.

You say it is unorthodox.

Yet the basis of this claim is from anything but the Bible which should be the Basis for said orthodoxy.

But yours is based on letters and writings by those who controlled the money, your church.
Which is suspect to say the least.


And saying it is unorthodox when replying to someones post that shows what the Bible says on the subject is not showing they are wrong. All it is doing is ignoring what they said by not addressing it. Pretty much trying to talk over them as if you did not hear.

You asked me to show where someone was at fault. The fact that they're teaching unorthodox doctrine automatically puts them at fault. The fact that said doctrine is considered unorthodox to all of Christianity, with the exception of a few that teach it, makes it universally, rather than subjectively, unorthodox ie in error. Why it's in error has been demonstrated by numerous Christians in this and numerous other threads, as you are very well aware.

 

[Bob S]

the sabbath command is also as God said, a test for us all do not forget this, God will test all of us in many ways.

There is not one word about the Sabbath being at test for ALL of us. Why do you take the word of a proven false prophet over what scripture is telling us?

Exodus 16:4:
Then the Lord said to Moses, “Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you. And the people shall go out and gather a certain quota every day, that I may test them, whether they will walk in My law or not.”

This testing included specific instructions for gathering twice as much manna on the sixth day and refraining from gathering on the Sabbath (Exodus 16:22-30). It was a way to see if the Israelites would honor His commandment regarding the Sabbath.

also

(Deuteronomy 8:2)
Moses reminded the Israelites that God tested them throughout their journey in the wilderness:
“And you shall remember that the Lord your God led you all the way these forty years in the wilderness, to humble you and test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not.”

All those scriptures were for Israel and only for Israel.

Last the sabbath is part of the Moral law it is not ceremonial, perhaps the pharisee made it so I do not know I never read the talmud

it is simple really;
Exodus 20:8-11
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.”

Where in all of scripture do we find the phrase "Moral law"? The 10 commandments were composed of nine laws that dealt with morality and one command that dealt with a ceremonial issue. Certainly, the ten were moral verses being immoral. They came from God. Paul wrote that they were only temporary commandments. They were replaced by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. 2Cor3:6-11

Even the Jews who practice Sabbath observance tell us the command is a ceremonial command.

 

[HIM]

You asked me to show where someone was at fault. The fact that they're teaching unorthodox doctrine automatically puts them at fault. The fact that said doctrine is considered unorthodox to all of Christianity, with the exception of the fringe sect(s) that teach it, makes it universally, rather than subjectively, unorthodox ie in error. Why it's in error has been demonstrated by numerous Christians in this and numerous other threads, as you are very well aware.

Their posts of scripture show your orthodoxy is unorthodox. And that the arguments against are baseless. In fact they very seldom deal with the text shared.