Led by the Spirit versus led by the Word. (the Bible)

[Saint Steven]

Obviously, we want both.
But I made a statement in another topic that being led by the Spirit is superior to being led by the Word.

Let's discuss. (play nice kids) Thanks.

So, I wanted to flesh that out a bit. Here's the quote below. Post #60.
Source: What is a successful (good) creation for God?

Don't get me wrong. A biblical-based decision is oftentimes the best for us. Especially as it concerns us personally.
But being led by the Spirit is superior. Something many know little about. Myself included.

Here's the background info that "led" to this statement which preceded this quote.
Since it was a bit off-topic, I wanted to create its own topic.

Begin quote:
"The difference between being led by the Spirit and being led by the Word. (Bible)
This is dangerous territory, and I'm likely to ruffle some feathers. WWJD?

I have wanted to address the issue of Christians feeling "led" to do something with a scriptural defense.
Actually considered this originally while reading the Screwtape Letters, C.S. Lewis. (the toast)

The 'thing" they are being led to do seems innocent to them and they can easily defend it, both rationally and biblically.
So... what could go wrong? (plenty)

The problem is that we never know enough of the behind-the-scenes activity to make either a correct rational, or biblical-based, decision.
And we don't need to know. God knows.

Both the serpent in the garden and the Devil tempting Jesus in the wilderness used the Word to deceive.
But the enemy is unable to use the Spirit in that way. Best he can do is counterfeit it.
A fully developed spiritual discernment is the only antidote. IMHO"
- End quote
(add the quoted bit above to cap the statement)

A couple of scriptures to consider. (the Word) I know, I know...
Notice that being led by the Spirit (not the Word) produces the fruit of the Spirit.
Why does it come from the Spirit and not the Word?

Romans 8:14 NIV
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

Galatians 5:16-18, 22-23 NIV
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh.
They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. ... [19-21]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

1 Corinthians 2:13 NIV
This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words
taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.

Matthew 4:1 NIV
Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Acts 8:29, 39-40 NIV
29 The Spirit told Philip, “Go to that chariot and stay near it.” ...
39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away,
and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.
40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about,
preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Obviously, we want both.
But I made a statement in another topic that being led by the Spirit is superior to being led by the Word.

Let's discuss. (play nice kids) Thanks.

So, I wanted to flesh that out a bit. Here's the quote below. Post #60.
Source: What is a successful (good) creation for God?


Here's the background info that "led" to this statement which preceded this quote.
Since it was a bit off-topic, I wanted to create its own topic.

Begin quote:
"The difference between being led by the Spirit and being led by the Word. (Bible)
This is dangerous territory, and I'm likely to ruffle some feathers. WWJD?

I have wanted to address the issue of Christians feeling "led" to do something with a scriptural defense.
Actually considered this originally while reading the Screwtape Letters, C.S. Lewis. (the toast)

The 'thing" they are being led to do seems innocent to them and they can easily defend it, both rationally and biblically.
So... what could go wrong? (plenty)

The problem is that we never know enough of the behind-the-scenes activity to make either a correct rational, or biblical-based, decision.
And we don't need to know. God knows.

Both the serpent in the garden and the Devil tempting Jesus in the wilderness used the Word to deceive.
But the enemy is unable to use the Spirit in that way. Best he can do is counterfeit it.
A fully developed spiritual discernment is the only antidote. IMHO"
- End quote
(add the quoted bit above to cap the statement)

A couple of scriptures to consider. (the Word) I know, I know...
Notice that being led by the Spirit (not the Word) produces the fruit of the Spirit.
Why does it come from the Spirit and not the Word?

Romans 8:14 NIV
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

Galatians 5:16-18, 22-23 NIV
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh.
They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. ... [19-21]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

1 Corinthians 2:13 NIV
This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words
taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.

Yeah. I don't go for any of this whatsoever. I see it as gross misconstruals of the meanings in the bible, meanings for which clarity is difficult to come by.

And today, I'll make it PLAIN AND CLEAR that I am against those who all too easily "claim the Spirit" as well as "claim the Word" in supposedly justifying their so-called Christian viewpoints and their supposedly "superior" or "prophetic" or "pietistic" spiritual positions.

What's more? The main reason is that in the 30 plus years that I've been a Christian, some of the most dysfunctional and cajoling interactions I've ever had come from so-called "fellow Christians," especially those who make an emphazed point that they are FILLED with the Spirit.


Yeah. Not. Going. To. Accept. That. Claim. It's circular. It's arrogant. It's anti-intellectual. It's a misappropriation of biblical writings. And it's bogus! I'm calling their bluff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If people want the sources that back up my view, I have them, and they're in plentiful supply. Some are even listed on my 'about' section here on CF. I dare anyone to engage them as a starting point by which to attempt to refute me.

 

[Benjamin Müller]

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying; perhaps you can clarify your point? But if you're saying that the spirit trumps the word, I would disagree.

2 Timothy 3:15 "and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Faith without works is dead. You need both. And likewise, without the word you won't know the way; without the spirit you cannot follow the written word. [Romans 7:7] So I don't know understand this.

 

[bling]

First off: I think we all tend to underestimate the power of the Spirit and we might overestimate the power of scripture. When we go to the nonbeliever to work with them, we should not just expect to hand them a Bible or just read the Bible with them, for a conversion. We should be trying to allow the Spirit to work through us: leading, listening, Loving, spending time, correcting and teaching them, (like Christ led the 12) to being a disciple of Christ.

 

[Saint Steven]

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying; perhaps you can clarify your point? But if you're saying that the spirit trumps the word, I would disagree.

I anticipated that this would ruffle some feathers.
Thanks for only being mildly "ruffled".

Your position on this is common in Christianity. That's why I feel it is worth discussing.
If we are tapped into the Spirit we are in direct communication with God.
Count how many layers it takes for the Spirit to speak through the Bible.

For starters, we don't even have the original manuscripts. All downhill from there.
Thousands of manuscript copies to sort through, a canon that was voted on, and translation bias.

Don't get me wrong. The Bible is still important. I use it every day.

 

[Saint Steven]

First off: I think we all tend to underestimate the power of the Spirit and we might overestimate the power of scripture.

Perfect. That's what I'm trying to say. (with WAY too many words)

 

[2PhiloVoid]

First off: I think we all tend to underestimate the power of the Spirit and we might overestimate the power of scripture. When we go to the nonbeliever to work with them, we should not just expect to hand them a Bible or just read the Bible with them, for a conversion. We should be trying to allow the Spirit to work through us: leading, listening, Loving, spending time, correcting and teaching them, (like Christ led the 12) to being a disciple of Christ.

Yes, on a practical scale that is beneficial. However, there are a lot of Christians who bury their heads in the sand as a response in instances where the applications of biblical criticism are relevant, along with igoring any criticism that may be given of their current interpretations of the bible.

I for one will not only NOT put up that; I'll firmly work against it. It's time for Christians to wake up and realize the actual problems we have with reading and applying the bible and all the while claiming that "this or that" is the real Christion view of the world or the "real filling of the Spirit," blah, blah, blah.

yeah, right.

 

[Benjamin Müller]

Your position on this is common in Xtianity.

Well, you seem bent to ruffle feathers and I have no intention of debating a person who puts an 'X' over Christ, in the world Christianity. You have written so little yet you've spoken volumes. I am no longer following or watching this thread, so don't respond nor quote me. I won't reply.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

in any action, you pick one or the other as the first step, this indicates if you are under/by the text or by the spirit.

 

[Blade]

(play nice kids) ooh I don't know any kids here this could be fun just playing.

I am a bit confused here. How are these being used other then what the 2nd post said? We all should know the sweet sweet holy Spirit will lead "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come." So there is no other. I guess its how one sees the word of God. So what is God's word? For me its men of God wrote by led (hello) by the spirit of God. So to be "led" by the word is being led by the holy Spirit. I don't see two here. As for ruffle feathers.. no clue why this would.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I anticipated that this would ruffle some feathers.
Thanks for only being mildly "ruffled".

Your position on this is common in Xtianity. That's why I feel it is worth discussing.
If we are tapped into the Spirit we are in direct communication with God.
Count how many layers it takes for the Spirit to speak through the Bible.

For starters, we don't even have the original manuscripts. All downhill from there.
Thousands of manuscript copies to sort through, a canon that was voted on, and translation bias.

Don't get me wrong. The Bible is still important. I use it every day.

Oh, you're not ruffling my feathers. I'm just going with 30 years of noticing the pretentious spiritual verbosity of certain Christians who claim some special, separate, even privileged and authoritative access to the Holy Spirit or insight about the bible that other Christians are said to "not have."

No, I think all that's happening is that the bible is being culled by many folks in order to posit and project forms of uber-spirituality. It's almost all human brain guess work. They read the bible and then, wanting to 'experience more charisms' or 'more spiritual authority.' form separate denominations by which to mount "special spiritual claims of God's work," work that in hindsight doesn't actually make better, more loving, more wise, more insightful, more functional people of them. But, boy, they sure like to think it does.

No, see. Here's what I've always done, being the equal opportunity analyzer that I try to be: I apply the same form of analysis to Christian views about the bible that I do to different atheist and/or skeptical views about atheism and disbelief. And when it all comes out in the wash, what's left is a very humbling view of the Christian faith that gives NO ONE legs by which to stand over others with authority.

All of this is exactly why I don't claim to have any "spiritual authority" in what I say, whatsoever. I'm only speaking analytically. I'm not special. But I also KNOW that neither do most other Christians have the spiritual authority that they claim. ...................Unless, of course, they actually do, in which case, like I would if encountering any of the Prophets of Old, I expect to find out about their authority soon enough. At the moment, and for the last three decades, I'm not seeing the bible as providing anyone any sort of special spiritual niche.

 

[Saint Steven]

I have no intention of debating a person who puts an 'X' over Christ, in the world Christianity.

I'll repair that. (not what I meant)

 

[Saint Steven]

I am a bit confused here. How are these being used other then what the 2nd post said?

This is the problem.
Seems most don't even know the difference.

To them spiritual guidance comes from the Bible, nowhere else.
As if they can't even hear God's voice, or have no innate guidance from the HS.
The Spirit manifests nothing in their lives.
Completely out of touch.

Kind of frightening, actually.

Matthew 7:23 NIV
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[Saint Steven]

As for ruffle feathers.. no clue why this would.

I agree, it shouldn't.

Also shared this video on the other thread where this came up. Might help.
This is a person who understands exactly what I am saying. (or vice versa)

5,966 views Jan 17, 2023
The essence of all good mentoring is asking brilliant questions that allow us to explore our relationship with God in a deeper way.SEE MORE Today we are asking the question, “If Jesus were looking out through my eyes how would He see my current situation?” Thinking through life using this question will align you with the mind of Christ and empower you to perceive all your life circumstances through a renewed lens. As always, thanks for listening!

 

[Saint Steven]

in any action, you pick one or the other as the first step, this indicates if you are under/by the text or by the spirit.

Well said.
As your post indicates, whether by accident, or by intention, is that there is a weight involved.
Either we carry it, or it carries us.

We may be accused of being carried away. "Whatever... " - LOL

 

[Saint Steven]

We all should know the sweet sweet holy Spirit will lead "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come." So there is no other. I guess its how one sees the word of God.

So... you think that was talking about the Bible? (the Spirit of truth to come)
That the Bible was the Spirit sent?

 

[Saint Steven]

So what is God's word? For me its men of God wrote by led (hello) by the spirit of God. So to be "led" by the word is being led by the holy Spirit. I don't see two here.

Wow. Two, count them.
The Prophets of old, led by the Spirit. (that's one)
You, acknowledging what they wrote. (that's two)

Is there no direct leading for you?
Are you led by spiritual osmosis?

 

[Clare73]

Obviously, we want both.
But I made a statement in another topic that being led by the Spirit is superior to being led by the Word.

The problem being how do you know which spirit it is: your spirit. . .a deceiving spirit masquerading as an angel of light. . .Holy Spirit?

That is what the word of God is for, to judge the spirits (1 Jn 4:1).

The word written is the rule by which we judge the nature of the spirit leading us,
and the conformity of the Spirit's message to that word is likewise the rule by which we judge if we are hearing correctly.

Every whacky impulse in the mind of the professing Christian is not from the Holy Spirit.

It's not rocket science.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Are you led by spiritual osmosis?

Man ... if a wall was spiritual, I could totally walk through it ...

or not .

 

[Saint Steven]

Man ... if a wall was spiritual, I could totally walk through it ...

or not .

No different than walking on water. If Jesus gives the green light, go for it. - LOL

Wouldn't advise going on yellow, or running a red light. Ouch.

John 20:19, 26 NIV
19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” ...
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”