Jesus Magnified the Ten Commandments

[SabbathBlessings]

I think we agree here. I don't want to be redundant, but since it's the knowledge of God's Holy Character that is the Light of our soul, then it makes sense that the commandments were given not to show righteousness,

Actually, God’s commandments show righteousness, what is right and wrong so we are not depending on what we feel is right or wrong

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of Your word,
For all Your commandments are righteousness.

Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

And we are told not to let anyone deceive us

1 John 3:7 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

but rather to show that we are all sinful in some degree because we have been corrupted through a corrupt imagery of god.

The commandments are to show us God’s righteousness and what is sin

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
James 2:11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. Quoting from the Ten Commandments Exo 20:1-17 breaking one we break them all
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

It’s why the law is so important, it shows us our sins, and shows us our need for a Savior that we can bring our sins to Him and though His blood when we have a sorry heart and repent, He can cleanse us from all our sins and unrighteousness 1 John 1:9 and through Him and His power He can help us forsake our sins. Pro 28:13

Hence the law is useful to show the presence of sinfulness in terms of a depravity, rather than just a destructive action or inaction.

The law shows us a destructive action, is committing adultery or murder not a destructive action? Breaking any of them are without repeteance and a changed heart because it separates us from God. Isa 59:2 and leads to destruction Heb 10:26-30 Mat 7:21-23 Rev 22:15 Mat 15:3-14

I think the renewing of the mind is utterly about coming to know God's Person, The Holy Spirit. As for cooperation, that would probably be contingent upon thoroughly acknowledging that first. Why would God restore to us virtues that we would only squander again without first addressing the vanity of the carnal mind?

God wants our heart changed because that is where sin begins, in the heart, its why He placed His law in our hearts because if we keep it close to our heart and guard it, we are not going to want to sin against God or our brethren. Sin should be painful because of what is did to Christ on the Cross and how it separates us from God Isa 59:2 Jesus came not just to take the penalty of sin, He came to show us how to live and to help us take the power of sin away and we can do that through our trust and faith in Him. Through our faith we are going to want to keep His commandments and honor Him in every way. Rom 3:31 Rom 2:21-23 1 John 5:3

This is a perfect scripture to make the point that grace is not meant to infer sin is okay. However, I don't see how it addresses why one should desire to be under grace rather than under the law.

I think we need to define these terms from the Bible first to make understanding them better.

To be “under the law” means to be under the condemnation of the law. The wages of sin is death. Some people think God’s law is only for the Jews, but it couldn’t be further from the truth

Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

So being under the law means being under the condemnation of the law. If we are in Christ, we are not under that penalty (death Rom 6:23) because we are connected to Christ and abide in Him.

If we are connected to Christ and are abiding in Him how will one be living?

John 15:5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you[b] will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.
9 “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

1 John 3:24 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us

1 John 2:6 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

If we are connected to Christ we would be keeping His commandments following in the footsteps of how Jesus lived and following what He taught.

This verse shows us what a saved person looks like

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Notice it’s not just the faith in Jesus, but the faith of Jesus. How did Jesus live, what did He teach. You would be surprised how many professed Christians reject this for some reason. The definition of Christian means to be a follower of Christ, following in His footsteps 1 Peter 2:21-22

Perhaps we don't see grace the same way. I believe Grace is necessary to justify sinners, showing mercy, forbearance, understanding and forgiveness. Therefore, being baptized into his death can also infer we must suffer the sins of the world upon ourselves, his body, to be justified. How will we understand being justified by his resurrection, if we don't acknowledge that we sinned because first we were deceived?

Absolutely, God is long suffering and longs for us to turn from our sins and turn to Him and open our hearts and willing to surrender so He can work in us to do His good will and pleasure. And someone who has submitted to His will doesn't reject the law God placed in our hearts Psa 40:8 Heb 8:10

Rom 8: 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be

Sin should be painful, as Christians and when we fall, we should immediately repent of our sins and pray to God to help us overcome. There are many Scriptures in the Bible that shows us how we can overcome but the most important is to cling to Christ and allow His Spirit to guide us in His Truth. His Spirit will never guide us away from obeying God’s law or away from His Scriptures Isa 8:20 thats the other spirit we are warned about.

As I said before grace is not a license to sin, we have all sinned and deserve the death sentence that Jesus took for us. But if one is living in God’s grace they are keeping God’s law, they are not in rebellion to Him.

A good example is if we get pulled over for speeding because the posted sign (law) said the speed limit was 45, but we were going 55(sinning). We plead with the officer, could you please have mercy on me and give me a warning (grace). So the officer agrees. Did that make the law go away? Can we speed away doing donuts and think we are not going to get pulled over again but this time receive a ticket? Sadly, thats what people think grace means, but it’s not as Paul so clearly stated, ”How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?”

I see the experience of repentance and eventual transformation into Christ as a process being performed by the workings of the Holy Spirit (Glory be to God).

Amen!

I want to project that there is a Truth that exposes the lies that prompt sinful desires and actions so that such desires won't form. For example, Jesus said that the sick need a doctor. It therefore wouldn't make sense to tell someone who is depraved to not sin (keep the law), especially when the scripture is teaching that The Spirit of Truth is necessary to heal this disability.

I disagree. Did Jesus ever teach someone who was committing adultery to try to sin a little less, or some sin was okay. He said I forgive you (grace) but go and sin no more (right back under the law).

The law leads us to a converted heart and leads us to Jesus

Psa 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul;
The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple;

Rev 22:14 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Sin leads us to be separated from God Isa 59:2 Mat 7:21-23 Heb 10:26-30

There is no sin that is too great for Jesus to help us overcome. It’s why the law is so important, so we can see our sins and go to Jesus who is the Great Physician and He can help us overcome.

The Spirit of Truth enables to keep His commandments through our love and faith (cooperation) in Him but receiving comes with conditions

John 14: 15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

While God is long suffering, He is also a God of justice and one day soon justice and mercy will come together and when Jesus comes all our decisions will already be sealed Rev 22:11

 

[childeye 2]

Actually, God’s commandments show righteousness, what is right and wrong so we are not depending on what we feel is right or wrong

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of Your word,
For all Your commandments are righteousness.

Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

And we are told not to let anyone deceive us

1 John 3:7 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

Yes, I grant you that there is the righteousness that is by the works of the law, but there is also the righteousness that comes by grace through faith and witnessed to by the law. I believe that through the deeds of the law we do attempt to establish our own righteousness, but through faith in Christ we acknowledge that we cannot attain to this righteousness without God's Spirit. Hence there are two different ways we attempt to attain righteousness as shown below:

Romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 10
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

The commandments are to show us God’s righteousness and what is sin

I can agree the commandments show me I have a condition described as sinfulness. But I also consider that God's righteousness would NOT be projected well in such commandments as don't steal or don't murder. This is probably why scripture says that the law is for sinners, and also why the letter of the law is a shadow of the self-sacrificing Love displayed on the cross of Christ.

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
James 2:11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. Quoting from the Ten Commandments Exo 20:1-17 breaking one we break them all
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

It’s why the law is so important, it shows us our sins, and shows us our need for a Savior that we can bring our sins to Him and though His blood when we have a sorry heart and repent, He can cleanse us from all our sins and unrighteousness 1 John 1:9 and through Him and His power He can help us forsake our sins. Pro 28:13

This is what I meant when I said that the intention of the law is to show sin, rather than show righteousness. I think we're saying the same thing.

Romans 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Sin shows us a destructive action, is committing adultery or murder not a destructive action?

Of course, any act of sin is a destructive action. But sinfulness is also a condition. If God gives me over to a reprobate mind, I can't just decide not to have a reprobate mind.

Breaking any of them are without repeteance and a changed heart because it separates us from God. Isa 59:2 and leads to destruction Heb 10:26-30 Mat 7:21-23 Rev 22:15

God wants our heart changed because that is where sin begins, in the heart, its why He placed His law in our hearts because if we keep it close to our heart and guard it, we are not going to want to sin against God or our brethren. Sin should be painful because of what is did to Christ on the Cross and how it separates us from God Isa 59:2 Jesus came not just to take the penalty of sin, He came to show us how to live and to help us take the power of sin away and we can do that through our trust and faith in Him. Through our faith we are going to want to keep His commandments and honor Him in every way. Rom 3:31 Rom 2:21-23 1 John 5:3

What we believe to be true manifests desires accordingly. I see the mind as a mechanism for reasoning, such as weighing pros and cons. But the positive and negative values of those pros and cons are changed as one transforms from the carnal mind to a spiritual mind, even because we learn not to reason based on strictly carnal motivated pros and cons. Hence what we believe in the heart as true will alter our reasoning.

I think we need to define these terms from the Bible first to make understanding them better.

To be “under the law” means to be under the condemnation of the law. The wages of sin is death. Some people think God’s law is only for the Jews, but it couldn’t be further from the truth

Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

So being under the law means being under the condemnation of the law. If we are in Christ, we are not under that penalty (death Rom 6:23) because we are connected to Christ and abide in Him.

I think we're basically saying the same things here ---> that the law was given to condemn all sinners as worthy of death, not make us righteous. I don't believe that doing the law makes us righteous on the inside, while belief in the Christ as the True Image of God does.

The blood sprinkled on my heart moves me because I witness to a self-sacrificing love that suffered the sins of the world on a cross. The Gospel testifies to the incorruptible Love subjected to the ultimate shame of being stripped naked, mocked, scorned, scourged, beaten, and nailed to a cross to die in agony, and yet he prayed for his tormentors asking that they be forgiven because they knew not what they were doing. It's quite thought provoking since the law of Moses condemns us to death yet does not infer that we should bear with the sins of others nor forgive them.

Romans 10
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above

If we are connected to Christ and are abiding in Him how will one be living?

John 15:5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you[b] will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.
9 “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

1 John 3:24 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us

1 John 2:6 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

If we are connected to Christ we would be keeping His commandments following in the footsteps of how Jesus lived and following what He taught.

This verse shows us what a saved person looks like

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Notice it’s not just the faith in Jesus, but the faith of Jesus. How did Jesus live, what did He teach. You would be surprised how many professed Christians reject this for some reason. The definition of Christian means to be a follower of Christ, following in His footsteps 1 Peter 2:21-22

It's my experience that The Holy Spirit convicts me of sin according to Love God with all your heart mind and soul, and your neighbor as yourself. Jesus taught that all of the law and prophets are built upon those two commandments. To me this is the simplicity that is in Christ and that every lie of the devil seeks to undermine.
2 Corinthians 11
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

While I can't be sure what is meant by the faith OF Jesus in Rev 14:12, I would think that it relates to the patience of the saints who would rather endure persecution unto death than to take the mark of the beast and worship the beast. Similarly, the Son, whose faith is pointed at the Father, submitted to death through a crucifixion in order to destroy the works of the devil (worshipping false imagery).

Absolutely, God is long suffering and longs for us to turn from our sins and turn to Him and open our hearts and willing to surrender so He can work in us to do His good will and pleasure. And someone who has submitted to His will doesn't reject the law God placed in our hearts Psa 40:8 Heb 8:10

Rom 8: 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be

Sin should be painful, as Christians and when we fall, we should immediately repent of our sins and pray to God to help us overcome. There are many Scriptures in the Bible that shows us how we can overcome but the most important is to cling to Christ and allow His Spirit to guide us in His Truth. His Spirit will never guide us away from obeying God’s law or away from His Scriptures Isa 8:20 thats the other spirit we are warned about.

As I said before grace is not a license to sin, we have all sinned and deserve the death sentence that Jesus took for us. But if one is living in God’s grace they are keeping God’s law, they are not in rebellion to Him.

A good example is if we get pulled over for speeding because the posted sign (law) said the speed limit was 45, but we were going 55(sinning). We plead with the officer, could you please have mercy on me and give me a warning (grace). So the officer agrees. Did that make the law go away? Can we speed away doing donuts and think we are not going to get pulled over again but this time receive a ticket? Sadly, thats what people think grace means, but it’s not as Paul so clearly stated, ”How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?”

I understand your message is that grace is not a license to sin. I also understand your example. Similarly, I think of grace as projecting a positive prejudice towards others through faith, as opposed to a cynicism which projects a negative prejudice through distrust. 1 Corinthians chapter one that explains how the preaching of the Gospel is foolishness to some, but to the called it is the power of salvation by grace through faith.

I disagree. Did Jesus ever teach someone who was committing adultery to try to sin a little less, or some sin was okay.

No, of course, Jesus wouldn't say to sin at all. That has nothing to do with what I'm trying to convey. I'm saying that every desire to sin is first preceded by believing a lie of the devil which stirs up vain desires appealing to the flesh.

He said I forgive you (grace) but go and sin no more (right back under the law).

That's not how The Holy Spirit works in me. When the Holy Spirit convicts me of sin, He shows me my hypocrisy when I don't Love others as myself. In turn, I am moved to sincerely thank Him for showing me, and thereby I acknowledge and worship God as the Spirit Who makes me righteous. Moreover, there are virtues that are nurtured by walking in the power of the Spirit of Christ.

The law leads us to a converted heart and leads us to Jesus

I agree that the law is like a tutor that leads to Christ.

"For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect."

I've already testified that the Holy Spirit convicts me of sin through showing me how and when I did not love others as myself. That also supports the reasoning of why I must pick up my own Cross and bear the sins of others, so as to walk in the Spirit of Christ, even though he was without sin.

Psa 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul;
The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple;

Rev 22:14 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Sin leads us to be separated from God Isa 59:2 Mat 7:21-23 Heb 10:26-30

There is no sin that is too great for Jesus to help us overcome. It’s why the law is so important, so we can see our sins and go to Jesus who is the Great Physician and He can help us overcome.

The Spirit of Truth enables to keep His commandments through our love and faith (cooperation) in Him but receiving comes with conditions

John 14: 15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

While God is long suffering, He is also a God of justice and one day soon justice and mercy will come together and when Jesus comes all our decisions will already be sealed Rev 22:11

I have no problem with admitting I need to keep the commandments. But since I also find myself acknowledging that I have sinned every time the Holy Spirit convicts me of sin, I know I would not even see my sin without the Holy Spirit convicting me. This is why I want to project that there is a Spirit of Truth that exposes the lies that manifest sinful desires due to the disability of the carnal mind. I don't want to project that the Holy Spirit is not necessary to conform to Christ. Hence the transformation from the carnal mind to the spiritual mind of Christ is performed by the Holy Spirit, not by me, for I am saved by grace through faith; and not of myself, it is the gift of God.

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[HIM]

Hello Bob,

what I believe based on writings of Jesus, is that we certainly have to keep the 10 Commandments as they are the covenant, Both Paul and Jesus were teaching the commandments. however as gentiles, it was made clear by the apostles that only a few requirements of the Mosaic law ( excluding the 10 Commandments, that are distinct from the rest of the Mosaic Law) as described in Acts;

Act 15:19 It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not cause trouble for the Gentiles who are turning to God.

Act 15:20 Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals, and from blood.

Act 15:21 For Moses has been proclaimed in every city from ancient times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

This is a clear reference to the rest of the Laws of Moses and not the Commandments.

The word for in the beginning of verse 21 shows us a reason for what was said in the previous verses. Most miss this. What was the reason for bringing up the fact that Moses is read in the synagogues every Sabbath my friend?

 

[HIM]

Romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 10
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

The Just sall live by faith This faith ESTABLISHES the Law. For the word is in our heart and in our mouth. That is the word of faith in which we preach. For God has said I will put my Law into their hearts and in their minds. I will give them a new Spirit and cause them to walk in my statutes and keep my judgements.

 

[HIM]

The conscience of the born again by the Holy Spirit doesn't need a definition for the love of God.

Then throw your Bible out

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes, I grant you that there is the righteousness that is by the works of the law, but there is also the righteousness that comes by grace through faith and witnessed to by the law. I believe that through the deeds of the law we do attempt to establish our own righteousness,Hence there are two different ways we attempt to attain righteousness as shown below:

Romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 10
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

I think you might have a misunderstanding of works of the law- only worshipping God, keeping His name holy, not bowing to idols, keeping His Sabbath day holy, not murdering our brethren, or committing adultery, or coveting or breaking the least of these is not "works of the law" or our righteousness, it is God's righteousness- what He deems right and wrong for us, so we are not depending on our righteousness, or our "works of the law" when we decide what is right or wrong instead of allowing God to be God and obeying Him through love and faith


Exo 32:16 16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.
Psa 78:7 That they may set their hope in God, And not forget the works of God, But keep His commandments;
Rev 2:26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

It is God will for how He wants His children to live, by God's own Testimony is not establishing our own righteousness.

Psa 40:8 I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart.”

Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Rom 2:12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

The law Paul is speaking of in Romans 2, the law man will be Judged by 2 Cor 5:10 Ecc 12:13-14 James 2:10-12 Rev 22:14-15

Rom 2:21 You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law?

Its obvious Paul speaks of two different laws that sadly most don't either recognize, don't understand, or seemingly don't care

I can agree the commandments show me I have a condition described as sinfulness. But I also consider that God's righteousness would NOT be projected well in such commandments as don't steal or don't murder. This is probably why scripture says that the law is for sinners,

There’s more commandments than just the two Exo 20:1-17
Is any of us without sin?
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

So who is the law for? For us sinners. The only way the law is not for us, is if we are not sinning and then we would be keeping God's commandments, not disobeying and being in rebellion or sinning.

and also why the letter of the law is a shadow of the self-sacrificing Love displayed on the cross of Christ.

Can you show me the Verse where we can now worship other gods, steal or break the least of these commandments because Jesus died on the Cross? Is this what Jesus taught?


Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments as it affects our status in heaven, not on the Cross as we were not even born then.

This is what I meant when I said that the intention of the law is to show sin, rather than show righteousness.

Its one of the same. God's righteousness, there is no sin, therefore all of His commandments or His righteousness Psa119:172 is being kept.

Romans 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

When we first come to Christ, we are justified or accepted just as we are in our sinful state. Sadly, this is where it ends for most people. I am a sinner, I accept Jesus Christ, I will live in my sins and that's okay. But that's not what Jesus came for. He came to save us from our sins

1 Mat 1:21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

We are not saved "in our sins" we need a complete transformation through Jesus. No sin is too great for Him, but we must confess and forsake our sins Pro 28:13 and through the power of Jesus Christ we can be a new creature in Him leaving the old man behind.

Our faith establishes the law, it does not void, which sadly most teach or believe.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Romans 10
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above

Righteousness is by faith. Will I be righteous by having my son, if I had one be circumcised? Is that going to save anyone. We are not saved by any law, not even the Ten Commandments, we are saved by grace through faith. What does someone who has faith do? James 1:22 Are they being disobedient to God and sinning? Of course not, read Hebrews 11, everyone with faith obeyed God and had good fruit

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

This is what the Bible says a saved person looks like
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God (His version) and the faith of Jesus.

This is what the Bible says about someone who is lost looks like:
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

One path separates us:

Rom 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’(Believers) shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

The other path reconciles
Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

The path we end up on depends on our decisions

Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

It's my experience that The Holy Spirit convicts me of sin according to Love God with all your heart mind and soul, and your neighbor as yourself. Jesus taught that all of the law and prophets are built upon those two commandments. To me this is the simplicity that is in Christ and that every lie of the devil seeks to undermine.

I agree the devil undermines these commandments that has most people fooled, that they get to define what love to God is and love to our neighbor, not God. What I love about the Scripture is that it will explain what these things mean, so we don't have to lean on our own understandings, we can depend on God, if we allow the Bible to explain itself.

Both of these commandments, love to God with all our heart and mind and love to our neighbor are the Ten Commandments summarized, which the entire Scripture hangs on- how to love God, how to love our neighbor which Jesus expanded on or magnified so we understand what that looks like Mat 5:19-30

Rom 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

What commandments is Paul quoting from that sum up the second greatest commandment “You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Direct from the Ten Commandments that deal with how to love our neighbor Exo 20:13-17

I would suggest reading Deut 5, which is Moses 40 years after Mt Sinai and right before the children entered their promised land of Canann, Moses repeated the Ten Commandments and then said this:

Deut 6:1 “Now this is the commandment, and these are the statutes and judgments which the Lord your God has commanded to teach you, that you may observe them in the land which you are crossing over to possess, 2 that you may fear the Lord your God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments which I command you, you and your son and your grandson, all the days of your life, and that your days may be prolonged. 3 Therefore hear, O Israel, and [a]be careful to observe it, that it may be well with you, and that you may multiply greatly as the Lord God of your fathers has promised you—‘a land flowing with milk and honey.’

4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

So the greatest commandments to love God and love our neighbor are the Ten Commandments summarized. No one can love God by worshipping other gods, no one can love their neighbor by lying to them why

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

I agree that the law is like a tutor that leads to Christ.

Which law is Paul quoting from? Have you read this verse in the context of the chapter? Even if it was referring to the Ten Commandments, which I believe leads us to Christ once in Christ what did He teach? That we can now worship other gods and steal or did He teach, if you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15 don't break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30 keeping our rules over obeying the commandments of God one worships in vain and that path leads to a ditch Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 so if in Christ through faith we would be keeping His commandments, not breaking them

"For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect."

Again which law? this verse actually tells you

, can never with those sacrifices

So instead of bringing an animal sacrifice to a Levitical Priest which was just a shadow of the substance which is Christ, we are in the New Covenant- Jesus is now our High Priest so we can go directly to Him when we sin.

Sin is still the same, breaking God's law in the New Covenant 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30

I've already testified that the Holy Spirit convicts me of sin through showing me how and when I did not love others as myself. That also supports the reasoning of why I must pick up my own Cross and bear the sins of others, so as to walk in the Spirit of Christ, even though he was without sin.

Its best to let God define sin, which He does though His law and anything that is not of faith is sin and not depend on what we feel is right or wrong.

I have no problem with admitting I need to keep the commandments. But since I also find myself acknowledging that I have sinned every time the Holy Spirit convicts me of sin, I know I would not even see my sin without the Holy Spirit convicting me.

The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, which is breaking God's law, but we need to be careful because there is another spirit out there teaching millions if not billions of people we do not have to obey God and can live. This is the very first lie in the garden that deceived our first parents, that is still working today, that we can disobey God and live, when Jesus said in His own Words, that's not true- depart from Me, ye who practice lawlessness and this word translates into sin, because sin is lawlessness.

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Please read this in context. Please show me the law Paul is referring to in Galatians is the Ten Commandments, that God bewitched us when asking if we love Him, keep His commandments. I'll give you a clue the law Paul is referring to found in this same chapter Gal 2:3, It was something Paul had to correct in several of his letters that the Jews were compelling the gentiles to be circumcised before hearing the gospel and to be saved. Act 15:1 If all we had to do is cut our penis to be saved, God died in vain, because its showing we do not need Christ, this is what Paul is correcting, not that its okay to break God's law and sin Rom 7:7 and dishonor God Rom 2:21-23 and be an enmity to God Rom 8:7-8- He said keeping the commandments of God is what matters 1 Cor 7:19 so its really important to read Paul in context and understand the difference between the perfect law that God wrote with His perfect finger, which is the Holy Spirit and the law that came after sin for breaking God's law that was set beside the ark as a witness against which held all the curses for breaking God's holy law. In the end we will either have Christ blessing or the curse of the law which is death. We are not saved by keeping any law, keeping God's law is a consequence of our love, faith and salvation in Him. 1 John 15:4-10

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

 

[childeye 2]

The Just sall live by faith This faith ESTABLISHES the Law. For the word is in our heart and in our mouth. That is the word of faith in which we preach. For God has said I will put my Law into their hearts and in their minds. I will give them a new Spirit and cause them to walk in my statutes and keep my judgements.

Thank you for your post. I see it supporting my personal testimony that it is God that causes me to walk in His statutes. For it has been my experience that the inward righteousness living within me that I describe as a self-sacrificing Love, did not come from trying to keep the laws of Moses, but rather it came through faith/trust in Jesus as the True Image of God sent by God. Moreover, this to me is the same sentiment being expressed in 2 Corinthians 4:7 ---> But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

While I understand the reasoning that "This faith establishes the law" since logically this faith in the incorruptible Love fulfills the commandment to Love God with all your heart mind and soul and your neighbor as yourself, it is also brought unto remembrance that scripture says the law is not of faith in Galatians 3.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I think it really comes down to not understanding God's law and the law of Moses.

Most think the law of Moses is the Ten Commandments and was done away with, but zero Scripture says this. Jesus taught and kept the opposite Mat 5:17-30, Mark 7:7-13 Mat 15:3-14, John 14:15 Mat 19:17-19 etc

Moses did not write the Ten Commandments nor was the Ten Commandments ever called the law of Moses.

God in His own Words claims the Ten Commandments as "MY commandments" My covenant", never the covenant or law of Moses. It is 100% God's work. Exo 32:16

Deut 4:13 So He (God) declared to you His (God) covenant which He (God) commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He (God) wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Right in the Ten Commandments God claimed them as His, Moses is not God. He was an important prophet, but he was not God.

Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me(God) and keep My (God) commandments.

The whole bible is about the testimony of Jesus Christ, yet when it comes to God's own personal Testimony that God both supernaturally wrote with His own finger and spoke with His own voice to the congregation of His church, people reject it for some strange reason

Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Isa 8:20 0 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

God wrote His will and Testimony on stone for its eternal nature than placed His law in the hearts and minds of His people in the New Covenant, still made to Israel Heb 8:10 which we are grafted in through faith. Gal 3:26-29

Many don't understand the earthy temple was so God could dwell with His people. It was a miniature of His heavenly temple Heb 8:1-5 where God did not leave it up to man to write His holy and eternal law that all man will be Judged by James 2:10-12 Ecc 12:13-14 Rev 14:7 Rev 22:14-15 why we see the ark of the covenant opened up in heaven at the last trumpet before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ Rev 11:19 where justice and mercy comes together. The Ten Commandments are shielded by His mercy seat and I would not want to remove anything that God covers with His mercy as He said right in the Ten Commandments

Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Sadly the devil has us all twisted thinking we can disobey God and live, the opposite of what God said. Its all a matter of faith and living by His every Word Mat 4:4

 

[Bob S]

Bob, ARK OF THE COVENANT! inside, was the covenant the 10 commandments on tables of stone! what more do you need, the rest of the law was OUTSIDE! and I explained WHY!

I really do not buy what you said. The Ark of the covenant contained the two parts of the covenant. One was the ten written on stone and the other written on parchment. The one written on parchment gave authority. For instance, What would happen if someone didn't observe the Sabbath? The fourth commandment didn't give any indication, it was the commandment in the Book of the Law that told the Israelites what would happen. The Book of the Law was just as important as the ten. the fact is we find the greatest commands found in the Book of the Law, Israels command to love God and God's command for Israel to love their fellow man. So, JFF it would be very wise to study scripture before trying to teach thing that are not Biblical.

of course I do that is the point they were mentioned in the rest of the law of Moses, the apostles decided them this was important as they are linked to the ten commandments how so?
In Acts 15:28–29, the apostles and elders in Jerusalem, guided by the Holy Spirit, gave new believers who were not Jewish a simple message. They said it was not right to put heavy burdens on them, only to ask them to keep a few necessary things. These included avoiding food offered to idols, staying away from blood and meat from strangled animals, and not taking part in sexual sin. These instructions were not meant to replace the Ten Commandments, but they were a starting point. They helped new believers turn away from idol worship, which was common in their cultures, and begin living a life that honored God.

Since we now know that the real old covenant contained many rules beside the ten we would have to assume that the council didn't take away the obligation to keep the feasts and new moons, all of the health laws personal requirements and the civil rules. But somehow, they have vanished. Could it be the old covenant with its over 600 rules ended like Jesus said it would, and the new covenant rules contain only the issues of morality?

Morality is forever for every soul that has ever lived, rituality was for on nation that ceases to live. See Col 2:16-17

The teaching to avoid idols connects with the first commands God gave about having no other gods. The rule about blood goes back even before Moses, when God told Noah not to eat blood because life is in the blood. Blood represents life, and God had set it apart as something sacred. Taking in blood meant not respecting the life that God gave. Again, this connects to respect for life and keeping God’s command not to consume blood. The instruction against fornication follows what God has always said about purity, as written in the command not to commit adultery. These few rules were given to help the new followers separate from sin and false worship and to start learning how to walk in holiness. The Ten Commandments still stand as the foundation of God’s law, and these first steps were meant to lead them closer to that truth over time, as they grew in faith and understanding of Jesus' teachings.

How can you tell us the ten are the foundation of God's Law when it doesn't even contain the greatest command ever given. The ten were like a 101 class, a few of the multitude of ways we can dishonor God and our fellow man. It is no wonder Paul wrote in 2Cor3 that they were only temporary until Jesus poured out the Holy Spirit to guide and comfort us.

So yes, every teaching of Jesus either flows from the Ten Commandments or brings deeper meaning to them. He never set them aside, He made them come alive in the hearts of those who truly want to follow God.

So, I ask you once again why did Paul write that the ten explicatively were only temporary? 2Cor3: 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, ...........

Yes, Jesus did speak to some Gentiles directly, and even more importantly,

Speaking and teaching are two different things.

He intended for Gentiles to hear His message,

Yes, and the Good News has been spread all over the Earth. The funny thing is that the Good News didn't include the old covenant rules like Sabbath observance, but now it is so important that one writer told us if we don't observe it, everyone will lose our eternal inheritance. Do you observe it to the letter of the Law? Half trying doesn't count. IS 58:
“If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath
and from doing as you please on my holy day,
if you call the Sabbath a delight
and the Lord’s holy day honorable,
and if you honor it by not going your own way
and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,
14 then you will find your joy in the Lord,
and I will cause you to ride in triumph on the heights of the land
and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.”
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

follow His teachings, and come to know and obey God’s commandments. Let’s look at this in two parts: first, examples of Jesus speaking directly to Gentiles, and second, proof that He wanted Gentiles to know and keep God's commandments.

He certainly does want us to abide by His Laws. When you read Jn15 verses 9-14 what is Jesus telling us?

While Jesus was sent first to the lost sheep of Israel (Matthew 15:24), He did not reject Gentiles who came to Him in faith. Here are clear examples:
Yes, during Jesus’ sermons like the Sermon on the Mount, many people came to hear Him, and they were not all Jews. The Bible says:

“Great multitudes followed Him—from Galilee, and from Decapolis, Jerusalem, Judea, and beyond the Jordan.” (Matthew 4:25)

Galilee, Jerusalem, and Judea were Jewish areas. But Decapolis, Syria, and beyond the Jordan were places with many non-Jewish people, or Gentiles. These were people from other nations,

Just before the Sermon on the Mount, it says

“Then His fame went throughout all Syria; and they brought to Him all sick people... and great multitudes followed Him.” (Matthew 4:24–25)

And He told the blessed are those who observe the Sabbath for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven???? One has to wonder why He didn't mention Sabbath if it was/is so important.

So we see clearly, people from Syria, a Gentile land, came to Jesus. Decapolis was a group of cities where Greek and Roman people lived. These were also GentilesI
This shows that even while Jesus was sent first to the Jews (Matthew 15:24), He welcomed others who came with faith. He didn’t send them away. He taught all who came to Him, including people from non-Jewish nations

I guess you believe He was teaching Gentiles Jewish Law? Then the council came along and excused the Gentiles from parts of the Law. Isn't that a conundrum?

Jesus said later:
“And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations.” (Matthew 24:14)

Yes, and what did the Gospel contain? In all of World history is there any evidence that Sabbath observance was part of the Gospel?

And before He returned to heaven, He told His followers:
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations... teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you.” (Matthew 28:19–20)

What did Jesus command? Did He ever command Sabbath observance? Paul certainly didn't thing He did. Col2, Eph2, Gal3, 2Cor 3 and on and on.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What did Jesus command? Did He ever command Sabbath observance? Paul certainly didn't thing He did. Col2, Eph2, Gal3, 2Cor 3 and on and on.

Can you point out in these verses where Paul said not to keep the Sabbath commandment? If the Sabbath commandment goes, then goes only worshipping God James 2:10-12 and I do not see in any world that life will sustain by placing something above God.

We need to be mindful of what we are teaching, Jesus said not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments and in doing so comes with some consequences Mat 5:19-30 Does Paul really have the authority to countermand Jesus. I am sure he will be horrified to learn what man has done with his writings, even through it was addressed in the Scripture 2 Peter 3:15-16

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

I really do not buy what you said. The Ark of the covenant contained the two parts of the covenant. One was the ten written on stone and the other written on parchment. The one written on parchment gave authority. For instance, What would happen if someone didn't observe the Sabbath? The fourth commandment didn't give any indication, it was the commandment in the Book of the Law that told the Israelites what would happen. The Book of the Law was just as important as the ten. the fact is we find the greatest commands found in the Book of the Law, Israels command to love God and God's command for Israel to love their fellow man. So, JFF it would be very wise to study scripture before trying to teach thing that are not Biblical.

Since we now know that the real old covenant contained many rules beside the ten we would have to assume that the council didn't take away the obligation to keep the feasts and new moons, all of the health laws personal requirements and the civil rules. But somehow, they have vanished. Could it be the old covenant with its over 600 rules ended like Jesus said it would, and the new covenant rules contain only the issues of morality?

Morality is forever for every soul that has ever lived, rituality was for on nation that ceases to live. See Col 2:16-17

How can you tell us the ten are the foundation of God's Law when it doesn't even contain the greatest command ever given. The ten were like a 101 class, a few of the multitude of ways we can dishonor God and our fellow man. It is no wonder Paul wrote in 2Cor3 that they were only temporary until Jesus poured out the Holy Spirit to guide and comfort us.

So, I ask you once again why did Paul write that the ten explicatively were only temporary? 2Cor3: 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, ...........

Speaking and teaching are two different things.

Yes, and the Good News has been spread all over the Earth. The funny thing is that the Good News didn't include the old covenant rules like Sabbath observance, but now it is so important that one writer told us if we don't observe it, everyone will lose our eternal inheritance. Do you observe it to the letter of the Law? Half trying doesn't count. IS 58:
“If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath
and from doing as you please on my holy day,
if you call the Sabbath a delight
and the Lord’s holy day honorable,
and if you honor it by not going your own way
and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,
14 then you will find your joy in the Lord,
and I will cause you to ride in triumph on the heights of the land
and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.”
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

He certainly does want us to abide by His Laws. When you read Jn15 verses 9-14 what is Jesus telling us?

And He told the blessed are those who observe the Sabbath for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven???? One has to wonder why He didn't mention Sabbath if it was/is so important.

I guess you believe He was teaching Gentiles Jewish Law? Then the council came along and excused the Gentiles from parts of the Law. Isn't that a conundrum?

Yes, and what did the Gospel contain? In all of World history is there any evidence that Sabbath observance was part of the Gospel?

What did Jesus command? Did He ever command Sabbath observance? Paul certainly didn't thing He did. Col2, Eph2, Gal3, 2Cor 3 and on and on.

Bob at the end, to follow what God said to follow is your choice.

Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deu 4:40 Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever.

Deu 5:10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

 

[childeye 2]

I think you might have a misunderstanding of works of the law- only worshipping God, keeping His name holy, not bowing to idols, keeping His Sabbath day holy, not murdering our brethren, or committing adultery, or coveting or breaking the least of these is not "works of the law" or our righteousness, it is God's righteousness- what He deems right and wrong for us, so we are not depending on our righteousness, or our "works of the law" when we decide what is right or wrong instead of allowing God to be God and obeying Him through love and faith

Scripture says ---> " For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God".

This is your take as I understand it ---> Being ignorant of God's righteousness = not knowing what God's righteousness is = going about to establish one's own righteousness = establishing one's own individual subjective morality = deciding for ourselves what is right or wrong = our works of the law = not submitting to God's righteousness = not submitting to what God says is right or wrong = not submitting to God's works of the law = not submitting to God's objective morality.

While I agree that there is an objective morality and subsequently a subjective morality, I don't see Paul talking about two different works of the law ---> Being ignorant of God's righteousness = not understanding that God's Spirit IS righteousness = thinking we must establish that we are righteous by performing the letter of the law without the Spirit = thinking righteousness is attained to through the deeds of the law = trying to attain to righteousness through the flesh = carnal vanity.

In my take, God's works = revealing His Spirit as the source of righteousness.

John 6
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[childeye 2]

It is God will for how He wants His children to live, by God's own Testimony is not establishing our own righteousness.

Psa 40:8 I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart.”

Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Rom 2:12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

The law Paul is speaking of in Romans 2, the law man will be Judged by 2 Cor 5:10 Ecc 12:13-14 James 2:10-12 Rev 22:14-15

Rom 2:21 You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law?

Its obvious Paul speaks of two different laws that sadly most don't either recognize, don't understand, or seemingly don't care

I see that there are many people showing that God's Word lives in them. They give charity and they care for the poor though they be strangers. I don't believe it comes to mind to these people that they should not be stealing. The Word of God is a living Spirit.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Scripture says ---> " For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God".

This is your take as I understand it ---> Being ignorant of God's righteousness = not knowing what God's righteousness is = going about to establish one's own righteousness = establishing one's own individual subjective morality = deciding for ourselves what is right or wrong = our works of the law = not submitting to God's righteousness = not submitting to what God says is right or wrong = not submitting to God's works of the law = not submitting to God's objective morality.

While I agree that there is an objective morality and subsequently a subjective morality, I don't see Paul talking about two different works of the law ---> Being ignorant of God's righteousness = not understanding that God's Spirit IS righteousness = thinking we must establish that we are righteous by performing the letter of the law without the Spirit = thinking righteousness is attained to through the deeds of the law = trying to attain to righteousness through the flesh = carnal vanity.

In my take, God's works = revealing His Spirit as the source of righteousness.

John 6
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Did you read the Scripture in Galatians 2 where it mentions the Ten Commandments- which law is Paul referring to? Please quote it, because I have read Galatians many times and I am pretty sure the only time Paul does mention any of the Ten Commandments in Galatians says when breaking, we won’t inherit eternal life, so how can that be the same “works of the law” that bewitched the Galatians? When relating it to God’s Ten Commandments is essentially saying God is bewitching us and it’s really an attack on the character of God which His law is a reflection of His holy character. I understand one might not know fully what they are saying, but its really a sad teaching by not understanding the significance of God’s law written personally by the God of the Universe, that He personally wrote on stone then wrote it in our hearts and minds- so no God is not bewitching us when we obey them through faith and love.

So what are we to do with God’s righteousness, His commandments that He give us to be our moral compass, just ignore along with all teachings and warnings of Jesus?

Can you explain, how we believe on Him but not believe what He taught us to live by? Mat 4:4 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 14:15 John 15:10 1 John 2:6 Mat 19:17-19 Mat 5:17-30.

Jesus said there will be believers when He comes who will say Lord Lord, but He doesn’t know them. Mat 7:21-23. That’s not what we want to hear when He comes.


1 John 2: 3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I see that there are many people showing that God's Word lives in them. They give charity and they care for the poor though they be strangers. I don't believe it comes to mind to these people that they should not be stealing. The Word of God is a living Spirit.

In Scripture, we break one commandment we break them all James 2:10-12. The Ten Commandments were never the Ten suggestions or multiple choice. It’s God’s version of what is right and wrong i.e. His righteousness. Psa 119:172 Isa 56:1-6 which is everlasting Psa 119:142 Written by our Perfect Savior that is perfect for converting the soul and sad its rejected, much like most people did in the Scriptures. There is only so much God can do to reconcile us, He gave us so much and asks for so little. John 14:15 1 John 2:6 God’s law is meant to be a blessing, because He knows what’s best for us and we keep them because we trust and love Him.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

In Scripture, we break one commandment we break them all James 2:10-12. The Ten Commandments were never the Ten suggestions or multiple choice. It’s God’s version of what is right and wrong i.e. His righteousness. Psa 119:172 Isa 56:1-6 which is everlasting Psa 119:142 Written by our Perfect Savior that is perfect for converting the soul and sad its rejected, much like most people did in the Scriptures.

Rather interesting, isn't it, that the most important commandments, so Christ the Lord has said, are not any of the Ten?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Rather interesting, isn't it, that the most important commandments, so Christ the Lord has said, are not any of the Ten?

Could you please show me through Scripture why these verses that Jesus taught and lived by do not include the Ten Commandments? When many He quotes from them verbatim. Please use Scripture and not just because you say so as that is not a compelling argument.

Mat 4:4 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 14:15 John 15:10 1 John 2:6 Mat 19:17-19 Mat 5:17-30.

 

[childeye 2]

One path separates us:

Rom 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’(Believers) shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

The other path reconciles
Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

The path we end up on depends on our decisions

Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

As an axiomatic term there are countless paths away from the One True Light and into darkness, just as there are many countless lies that can serve to undermine a single Truth and lead us astray. Subsequently there are those who scatter God's sheep with many lies and there are those who gather His sheep in the One Truth that is God. It's futile to get into debates over where the Light ends and the darkness begins, because what matters is discerning from which direction the Light is shining from.

Jesus said that we can't serve two Masters.

Only through belief in the Image of God sent by God, the image through whom God calls His sheep, do we come to recognize the objective positive/negative dichotomy of morality/immorality in the sentiments expressed in both thoughts and word. Objectively speaking rather than two paths, there are two opposing masters. One master is built upon the image of the god of this world, a tyrant dictator who would sacrifice all others beneath him to save himself, and the other is a servant Image of God Who would sacrifice Himself to save all others beneath Him.

Hence objectively speaking there are many paths away from the Light and into darkness (many devils), but only One Light. It's not a matter of decision, it's a matter of being able to see and believe, which is why the Gospel is a revelation.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

As an axiomatic term there are countless paths away from the One True Light and into darkness, just as there are many countless lies that can serve to undermine a single Truth and lead us astray. Thieves scatter and the True Sheperd gathers His sheep. It's futile to ponder where the Light ends and the darkness begins, because what matters is discerning from which direction the Light is shining from.

Jesus said that we can't serve two Masters.

Only through belief in the Image God sent by God, the image through whom God calls His sheep, do we come to recognize the objective positive/negative dichotomy of morality/immorality in the sentiments we express with our words. One master is built upon the image of the god of this world, a tyrant character who would sacrifice all others beneath him to save himself, and the other a servant Image of God Who would sacrifice Himself to save all others beneath Him.

Hence objectively speaking there are many paths away from the Light and into darkness, but only One Light. It's not a matter of decision, it's a matter of being able to see and believe, which is why the Gospel is a revelation.

Your response to my post is really confusing. Are you saying obeying the Ten Commandments that was personally written by the God of the Universe which shows God's righteousness Psa 119:172 , holiness Rom 7:12, and how we are to love God and love neighbor 1 John 5:2-3 John 14:15 Exo 20:6 as "being in darkness"

Lets see what the Scriptures teach about coming to the light or being in darkness

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.


John 3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

Here John makes the clear distinction that believing in Jesus is related to our obedience to Him. Those who choose to do evil (sin) does not come to the light because their deeds are evil, but we are called to come to the truth (light) so our deeds can be exposed. This is what the Ten Commandments does- it shows us our sin just like a mirror. When we bury our sins (stay in darkness) we don't confess or forsake them and therefore God can't give us His mercy and grace and give us the power to help overcome. Proverbs 28:13 Those who seek God want to come to the Truth Psa 119:151 so Jesus can help us overcome our sins. Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 not in sin.

Obeying what God asks is serving another master? Are you sure you're okay?

You don't seem to want to respond to any of the Scriptures I post and just go on to the next argument, so I will leave it as agree to disagree and all will get sorted out soon enough. I wish you well.

 

[childeye 2]

Your response to my post is really confusing.

Please quote what you found confusing and why it confuses you.

Are you saying obeying the Ten Commandments that was personally written by the God of the Universe which shows God's righteousness Psa 119:172 , holiness Rom 7:12, and how we are to love God and love neighbor 1 John 5:2-3 John 14:15 Exo 20:6 as "being in darkness"

I didn't mention the ten commandments. Basically, I'm saying there is a difference between being led by the Spirit and the letter of the law. For example, scripture says that the letter brings death while the Spirit gives Life.

I think you are confused on a few things.

Like what?

Obeying what God asks is serving another master? Are you sure you're okay?

As an axiomatic term "God" is the One True Light, and He doesn't ask me, He enlightens me.

You don't seem to want to respond to any of the Scriptures I post and just go on to the next argument, so I will leave it as agree to disagree and all will get sorted out soon enough. I wish you well.

I don't disagree with the scriptures you post. The problem is that we're stuck in this loop where you keep repeating, well we follow His commandments will be a matter of status in the Kingdom of God, which I don't actually disagree with. It makes me think of how many of the first will be last and many of the last will be first.

I have said that it's a matter of being able to see and believe and not a matter of decision, which is why the Gospel is a revelation.