The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[chevyontheriver]

so I guess you are from Iraq?

Nope. But I have more in common with those folks who have kept their faith for nearly 1955 years after leaving Jerusalem when the destruction of the Temple happened than I would ever have with your group. I don't speak Aramaic but we believe the same things. And that would include worshiping on Sunday. Something you think condemns us to hell.

I am non denominational and follow the teachings of Christ, I follow his voice only.

I'll concede you think you are doing that though.

 

[RandyPNW]

I'll concede you think you are doing that though.

If we could "listen to God only" we wouldn't need teachers, or those who correct, reprove, and rebuke. Those who "think" they are listening to God only are actually listening to people who teach Sabbath observance, as well.

But that requires honesty. I hope we can all achieve a measure of "honesty?"

 

[SabbathBlessings]

If we could "listen to God only" we wouldn't need teachers, or those who correct, reprove, and rebuke. Those who "think" they are listening to God only are actually listening to people who teach Sabbath observance, as well.

But that requires honesty. I hope we can all achieve a measure of "honesty?"

Honestly is very important. So Who is speaking here ?

Exo 31:18 18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Lev 23:3 3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

Isa 56:1 Thus says the Lord
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,


Eze 20:20 hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God.’

Isa 58:13

“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,
And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.
The mouth of the Lord has spoken.”

Eze 44:24 In controversy they shall stand as judges, and judge it according to My judgments. They shall keep My laws and My statutes in all My appointed meetings, and they shall hallow My Sabbaths.


Mat 2:27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.


Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

Who did Jesus tell us to live by? What man says or what God says?
Mat 4:4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

To claim the observance of the Sabbath didn’t come from God, every one of these Scriptures have a thus saith the Lord, so I agree, its time to have a measure of honesty.

 

[The Liturgist]

IT is not an attack on a particular church to say the truth about the sabbath being on the seventh day not the first.

It is when that denomination, as is the case with the Orthodox Church, makes no claims to the contrary, yet people claim falsely that we claim to have moved the Sabbath.

 

[RandyPNW]

Honestly is very important. So Who is speaking here and on Whose Authority? So Who is really teaching Sabbath observance?

Exo 31:18 18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Lev 23:3 3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

Isa 56:1 Thus says the Lord
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,


Eze 20:20 hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God.’

Isa 58:13

“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,
And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.
The mouth of the Lord has spoken.”

Eze 44:24 In controversy they shall stand as judges, and judge it according to My judgments. They shall keep My laws and My statutes in all My appointed meetings, and they shall hallow My Sabbaths.


Mat 2:27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.


Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

Who did Jesus tell us to live by? What man says or what God says?
Mat 4:4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

To claim the observance of the Sabbath didn’t come from God, every one of these Scriptures have a thus saith the Lord, so I agree, its time to have a measure of honesty.

The honesty I'm talking about is being willing to admit that one is listening to more of than just God, that he's listening to teachers as well.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The honesty I'm talking about is being willing to admit that one is listening to more of than just God, that he's listening to teachers as well.

Most people that I know who observe the Sabbath, observe the Sabbath because God said so, and later find a denomination that supports what the Scriptures state. The word is to be the light to our path Psa 119:105

 

[RandyPNW]

Most people that I know who observe the Sabbath, observe the Sabbath because God said so, and later find a denomination that supports what the Scriptures state. The word is to be the light to our path Psa 119:105

Yes, but that's not what I was saying. But okay.

There is a long-standing tradition of wanting to take things literally, even if the full value is, in my view, found in the spiritual. I'd rather be close to Jesus than try to figure out why God gave Israel all of those complicated requirements.

 

[chevyontheriver]

If we could "listen to God only" we wouldn't need teachers, or those who correct, reprove, and rebuke. Those who "think" they are listening to God only are actually listening to people who teach Sabbath observance, as well.

But that requires honesty. I hope we can all achieve a measure of "honesty?"

IF we would 'listen to God only' then there is no reason for the Church at all. But then there would be no reason for the early Church to write out the New Testament like they did because everything could be intuited directly from God. No intermediaries. Just an air drop from God. There would be no reason for pastors either. After all to 'listen to God alone' means not listening to pastors.

I have said many times that every Christian follows traditions, and that the most insidious tradition is the one that insists they have absolutely no tradition they follow. Just the Bible alone and nothing at all else. It is very blinding not to be able to see the tradition one follows because they can't admit, as an article of faith in the tradition they actually follow that they have no tradition.

I know I follow a tradition. It is rooted in the apostles. It is the gnarly old oak tree that started out as an acorn at Pentecost, growing according to the DNA it was founded with. It's a good thing to have that tradition, as it grounds the understanding of what Jesus founded. Without that, following Scripture Alone, I'd have to make it up ad I went, confident that I had the direct pipeline from God to understand all things better than anyone who had gone before me. That's hubris.

 

[RandyPNW]

IF we would 'listen to God only' then there is no reason for the Church at all. But then there would be no reason for the early Church to write out the New Testament like they did because everything could be intuited directly from God. No intermediaries. Just an air drop from God. There would be no reason for pastors either. After all to 'listen to God alone' means not listening to pastors.

I have said many times that every Christian follows traditions, and that the most insidious tradition is the one that insists they have absolutely no tradition they follow. Just the Bible alone and nothing at all else. It is very blinding not to be able to see the tradition one follows because they can't admit, as an article of faith in the tradition they actually follow that they have no tradition.

I know I follow a tradition. It is rooted in the apostles. It is the gnarly old oak tree that started out as an acorn at Pentecost, growing according to the DNA it was founded with. It's a good thing to have that tradition, as it grounds the understanding of what Jesus founded. Without that, following Scripture Alone, I'd have to make it up ad I went, confident that I had the direct pipeline from God to understand all things better than anyone who had gone before me. That's hubris.

Well, the Scripture Only people have a point, and the Apostolic Tradition people have a point, as well. My problem is with those who claim they have a pure no-fail method of hearing God, or what you've called being "intuited directly from God," without any influences. That's what some people, who are less than honest with themselves, would like us to believe.

We are all susceptible to error, both the Scripture Only people and the Apostolic Tradition people. We do need each other. As the Bible says, "have one or two *good* witnesses." And so, we can check our work.

I was part of a Christian cult for a short time. Some Christians still do not want to consider the "Local Church" a "cult." I do. I was in it.

They wanted us to believe that they were the purest church around because unlike those schismatic denominations they were pure and free of schisms. They had one church in each community, without any divisions.

I'm glad I got out of there. What self-deception!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes, but that's not what I was saying. But okay.

There is a long-standing tradition of wanting to take things literally, even if the full value is, in my view, found in the spiritual. I'd rather be close to Jesus than try to figure out why God gave Israel all of those complicated requirements.

The law we will be judged by is very literal and spiritual. If we keep them the way Jesus meant for us to keep them- His law in our heart Heb 8:6 , no longer angry with our brother, thou shalt not murder would automictically be kept. If Jesus changes us from living in the flesh, thought of lusts would go away and thou shalt not commit adultery would be kept. The Sabbath is meant to be kept the same way, its not about being lazy, its about taking time out of our busy week on the appointment with God that He gave us, every seventh day Exo 20:10 to rest in Him and focus on Him, Isa 58:13 not on work, not on labors, not on TV, or shopping, or sports but on Christ only so He can spiritually recharge us, bless and sanctify us because we can't do this ourselves, we need Christ Eze 20:12. Obeying the Ten Commandments, which is not complicated its love 1 John 5:3 is about completely resting in Him and in His works Exo 32:16, on what Christ does in us through Him John 14:15-18 by our cooperation love and faith of Jesus Rev 14:12

 

[RandyPNW]

The law we will be judged by is very literal and spiritual. If we keep them the way Jesus meant for us to keep them- His law in our heart Heb 8:6 , no longer angry with our brother, thou shalt not murder would automictically be kept. If Jesus changes us from living in the flesh, thought of lusts would go away and thou shalt not commit adultery would be kept. The Sabbath is meant to be kept the same way, its not about being lazy, its about taking time out of our busy week on the appointment with God that He gave us, every seventh day Exo 20:10 to rest in Him and focus on Him, Isa 58:13 not on work, not on labors, not on TV, or shopping, or sports but on Christ only so He can spiritually recharge us, bless and sanctify us because we can't do this ourselves, we need Christ Eze 20:12. Obeying the Ten Commandments, which is not complicated its love 1 John 5:3 is about completely resting in Him and in His works Exo 32:16, on what Christ does in us through Him John 14:15-18 by our cooperation love and faith of Jesus Rev 14:12

2 Cor 3.7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

What was literally required under the Law of Moses is no longer required of us Christians today. The Law was designed to show that Israel, and thus the whole world, needed redemption.

But Christ himself didn't need redemption. He had a superior righteousness which he could endow us with simply by forgiving us for our failures, and looking only at our desire to walk in his righteousness.

The Law brought temporary forgiveness. Christ not only forgives for all time, but gives us Eternal Life.

The Law was a reminder of Adam's failure in the Garden, and could never bring him back to the Tree of Life. Christ is the only way forward if we want righteousness that cannot be exposed as falling short of Eternal Life.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

2 Cor 3.7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

What was literally required under the Law of Moses is no longer required of us Christians today. The Law was designed to show that Israel, and thus the whole world, needed redemption.

But Christ himself didn't need redemption. He had a superior righteousness which he could endow us with simply by forgiving us for our failures, and looking only at our desire to walk in his righteousness.

The Law brought temporary forgiveness. Christ not only forgives for all time, but gives us Eternal Life.

The Law was a reminder of Adam's failure in the Garden, and could never bring him back to the Tree of Life. Christ is the only way forward if we want righteousness that cannot be exposed as falling short of Eternal Life.

You need to carefully study this passage because Paul is not teaching one to sin Rom 7:7 dishonor God Rom 2:21-23 and be an enmity to God when we break His law Rom 8:7-8. Paul's writings came with a very harsh warning, leading people to destruction if not reconciling because the last thing we want to hear from Jesus on Judgement Day is I don't know you, depart from Me, ye who practice lawlessness. He knows us when we keep His commandments 1 John 2:3 those who say they know Him, but keep not His commandments, there is no truth in them 1 John 2:4. All of God's commandments are Truth Psa 119:151 even the one God said Remember that is sanctified by God and He blesses when we keep, because it shows our loyalty to Him Eze 20:20, not to the crowd.

I would go over this passage with you if I thought it would make a difference. No Scripture I post seems to make a difference so I guess we will have to agree to disagree, and all gets sorted out soon enough. I wish you well.

 

[RandyPNW]

You need to carefully study this passage because Paul is not teaching one to sin Rom 7:7 dishonor God Rom 2:21-23 and be an enmity to God when we break His law Rom 8:7-8. Paul's writings came with a very harsh warning, leading people to destruction if not reconciling because the last thing we want to hear from Jesus on Judgement Day is I don't know you, depart from Me, ye who practice lawlessness. He knows us when we keep His commandments 1 John 2:3 those who say they know Him, but keep not His commandments, there is no truth in them 1 John 2:4. All of God's commandments are Truth Psa 119:151 even the one God said Remember that is sanctified by God and He blesses when we keep, because it shows our loyalty to Him Eze 20:20, not to the crowd.

I would go over this passage with you if I thought it would make a difference. No Scripture I post seems to make a difference so I guess we will have to agree to disagree, and all gets sorted out soon enough. I wish you well.

I wish you well too. I don't need to re-read and re-read, though, the passage in question. I've studied these things for a very long time, and evn now, remain open and objective to correction from the Lord.

It just seems so obvious to me what Paul meant, and is exactly as I put it. If you don't want to accept it, that's on you.

You can choose to live by laws that belonged to the Law of Moses if you wish, even though you still call it "Christian." For me, preaching the Law is a form of Judasim, even if it is dressed up in Christian clothes.

I wouldn't say, from my pov, that you're not a "Christian." I would just call you a Christian "in bondage." And I wouldn't have you to keep others in a similar bondage.

Have a nice day...