Is Fantasizing Sexualy About Your Spouse a Sin?

[musingsofacac]

This is a question that many Christians ask when they are dating or become engaged.

The common answer to the question in conservative Bible believing Christian circles is that it is wrong. Most people who take the position that it is wrong will quote Christ's words in Matthew 5:27-28:

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’; 28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

So the interpretation of this passage is, that if a man looks at any woman is he not married to and has lustful(sexually desirous thoughts about her) then he has committed adultery with her in his heart.

So then logically if you have sexual thoughts about the woman you are dating or are engaged to you are committing adultery in your heart because you are not yet married.

The problem is the topic here is not fornication(sex outside of marriage). It is clearly speaking of adultery. The most literal interpretation of Christ's words are this:

If a man looks at another man's wife and imagines himself having sex with her has committed adultery with her in his heart.

That's it!!!!

The Bible forbids fornication(sex outside of marriage), the Bible forbids Adultery. So if you are fantasizing about having sex before you are married then that would be wrong. If you are fantasizing about having sex with the woman you are dating or are engaged to after you married it is NOT wrong. Sexual fantasy in and of itself is not wrong, it is the context and subjects of it that can become wrong.

I was raised in an extremely conservative Christian environment(and still go to a conservative Christian church) and I used to live under the constant pressure that every sexual thought or desire toward a woman was sinful. Since the average man thinks about sex several times a day, that is quite the burden to bear.

Once I discovered this truth on God's Word, that sex drive, and even sexual fantasy(within reason) are not evil a great load was lifted off my shoulders.

As with anything else, anything that becomes obsessive or takes over our life or interferes with our inter personal relationships or our relationship with Christ can become wrong. But in and of itself, sexual fantasy is not wrong.

I would like to hear comments about this either way(pro or against) and please explain why Biblically you think I am wrong if you do.

 

[Shane R]

I agree with you on this. In a basic way a woman is made to appeal to a man and vice versa. When the added value of emotional attraction and a familiar bond is applied, desire is quite natural. When it is properly fulfilled it is beautiful and powerful.

 

[dayhiker]

musing ... like you I had to study mat.5 to understand what Jesus was talking about for myself because so many were making lust to be anything sexual in thought or deed.
Its also worth noting that lust is the same work Paul uses to refer to Thou shall not covet. So I've translated Jesus words this way and it stays withing the context of the 10 commandments that Jesus was preaching on.

If a man looks at another man's wife and covets her has committed adultery with her in his heart.

You might want to look into the word fornication. The Greek word porneia has meant prostitution from 400 years before Christ to today in Greece. I never meant premarital sex in Greek. Porneia is the Greek word used 200BC by the Hebrews to translate the Hebrew word for prositution in the Septuagint. The Bible the Apostles used. Fornex, slang for prostitution, is the Latin word Jerome used in the 4th century to translate the Latin Vulgate Bible that was the standard Bible of Europe for 1500 years. Even when the King James Bible was translated the English word fornication meant prostitution.

 

[iambren]

Musing and Dayhiker,I wish all Christians could have such clear thinking on this topic. If a man had no glorious desires to be with his future bride on their wedding night...I hope they would call off the wedding because it's probably doomed.

 

[musingsofacac]

musing ... like you I had to study mat.5 to understand what Jesus was talking about for myself because so many were making lust to be anything sexual in thought or deed.
Its also worth noting that lust is the same work Paul uses to refer to Thou shall not covet. So I've translated Jesus words this way and it stays withing the context of the 10 commandments that Jesus was preaching on.

If a man looks at another man's wife and covets her has committed adultery with her in his heart.

You might want to look into the word fornication. The Greek word porneia has meant prostitution from 400 years before Christ to today in Greece. I never meant premarital sex in Greek. Porneia is the Greek word used 200BC by the Hebrews to translate the Hebrew word for prositution in the Septuagint. The Bible the Apostles used. Fornex, slang for prostitution, is the Latin word Jerome used in the 4th century to translate the Latin Vulgate Bible that was the standard Bible of Europe for 1500 years. Even when the King James Bible was translated the English word fornication meant prostitution.

Agree porneia usually refers to prostitution, but where I think the Bible forbids premarital sex is here in Hebrews 13:4(KJV):

“Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers[pornos] and adulterers God will judge “

Basically God says there are three kinds of sex - any kind of sex outside of marriage(pornos), adultery(sex that violates marriage covenant) and sex within marriage.

The only one that is honorable and that God will not judge is sex within marriage, at least that is my understanding from this passage.

If you have a different one I am all ears.

 

[musingsofacac]

Musing and Dayhiker,I wish all Christians could have such clear thinking on this topic. If a man had no glorious desires to be with his future bride on their wedding night...I hope they would call off the wedding because it's probably doomed.

I am have been married 4 years(second wife), was married to my first wife over 10 years before she had affair with ex and I divorced her. The reason I brought this up is because I have seen so many young Christian people online fighting all this guilt that is heaped upon them for having sexual thoughts about their fiance or even the girl they are dating.

I have tried to counsel them that simply having those desires and thoughts is not sinful as the person you are having them about is someone you could marry(or are engaged to marry). Now if you are fantasizing not waiting for marriage and having sex before marriage that would be wrong, but simply having sexual desire or some fantasy about what it would be like to be with them is completely natural, and not sinful.

 

[dayhiker]

musing,
I think pornos refers to male prostitutes, used 10 times in the NT.
pornay is a female prostitute used 12 times in the NT.

 

[musingsofacac]

musing,
I think pornos refers to male prostitutes, used 10 times in the NT.
pornay is a female prostitute used 12 times in the NT.

Yes its most literal sense, but the word porneia can refer to sexual impurity in general. I think you also have to look at the context of the Hebrews passage I sited. He gives only three areas sex could occur, within marriage, pornos and adultery.

So you have to believe he missed a category, or that pornos included pre-marital sex. Because basically according that passage the only blessed sex by God is what occurs in the marriage bed.

 

[dayhiker]

I guess we read that passage differently, musing.

 

[Willie T]

Is having sexual thoughts about your fiance wrong?

I'd sure hope not. The wedding night, if not the whole marriage, would be a pitiful sham.

 

[emilie mayer]

Sexual thoughts involve lust. Lust is a sin.

 

[musingsofacac]

Sexual thoughts involve lust. Lust is a sin.

Emilie, "lust" Biblically speaking refers to a sinful desire. Biblically speaking there is no literal difference between "lust" and "covet".

What it means is we are not to desire something that it would be sinful for us to possess. So if I look at another man's wife in desirous way, that is the "lust" the Bible speaks of, I am not allowed to possess his wife, so I should not think her that way of her.

If however I am thinking sexually desirous thoughts about a woman I could potentially possess(or will in the sense of a fiance) - there is no sin, because it is not a sinful desire.

 

[ParentofChildren]

No. You are dreaming of your fiancé, brimming with anticipation. Satan is pushing abstinence to idolatry. Look forward to your married relationship, and the opportunity for physical intimacy.

 

[iambren]

"Sexual thoughts involve lust. Lust is a sin"

The mantra of the misguided Christian. Do you think that it is wrong to have ANY sexual thoughts before marriage? And if so describe them for me...the ones that are NOT sin.

You see,I see sexual desire like hunger. We all experience hunger,we long to sit down to a plate of food only mom could make,we dream of a twinke in the middle of the night and drive to the convenience store. There is no sin in hunger,it's part of life,part of what God has given us as being human.

Sure there are aberrations: habitually masturbating daily,using binoculars to be a peeping Tom,a man scheming to cohort with another man's wife,dressing seductively to steal your BFF's boyfriend,worshipping porn.

With food there is the twistedness of gluttonly or anorexia nervosa.

These are the distortions of the GOOD. We are sexual beings and think sexual thought from a very young age....and it's not sin!

 

[dayhiker]

I must say its good to see so many people not accepting this idea that any sexual thought is a sin unless we are married and its about our wife. 7 years ago when I 1st started posting there didn't seem to be many people who understood how to respond this legalism. I was just learning myself how to get out from under this guilt trip I kept finding myself under.

Praise God for He has set us free from guilt for things that aren't sinful!

 

[OGM]

Sexual thoughts involve lust. Lust is a sin.

All?

 

[musingsofacac]

All?

If you look at my previous posts I answered this in more detail. But in summary I basically said that its not wrong to have sexual thoughts about a woman that would be theoretically available(a woman that is not engaged to another man, not married to another man and not a prostitute).

So I have told my teenage sons, its not wrong for them to have a sexual thought, or even a momentary fantasy about a their girl friend or some other single girl.

It can be come wrong if it becomes an obession, just like a previous poster talked about gluttony.

I would add that drunkeness is the same as well, the Bible does not forbid us to drink alchohal, it forbids drunkeness. So yes each time we take a drink if we went too far we would be drunk.


The same is with sexual thoughts.

 

[RDKirk]

Emilie, "lust" Biblically speaking refers to a sinful desire. Biblically speaking there is no literal difference between "lust" and "covet".

What it means is we are not to desire something that it would be sinful for us to possess. So if I look at another man's wife in desirous way, that is the "lust" the Bible speaks of, I am not allowed to possess his wife, so I should not think her that way of her.

If however I am thinking sexually desirous thoughts about a woman I could potentially possess(or will in the sense of a fiance) - there is no sin, because it is not a sinful desire.

You are correct. It is not a sin to have sexual desire for your own fiance.

We hashed this out quite a bit in another thread a couple of months ago with regard to the question "Is lust for your own wife a sin?"

Think of this: If desire for another man's wife is the same as adultery--that is, if desire is spiritually equal to the material manifestation of that desire--then your desire to marry the woman is spiritually equal to the material manifestation of the marriage.

(Which might be the reason why a betrothal was considered 99% equal to the consummation of the marriage in Jesus' day.)

 

[musingsofacac]

You are correct. It is not a sin to have sexual desire for your own fiance.

We hashed this out quite a bit in another thread a couple of months ago with regard to the question "Is lust for your own wife a sin?"

Think of this: If desire for another man's wife is the same as adultery--that is, if desire is spiritually equal to the material manifestation of that desire--then your desire to marry the woman is spiritually equal to the material manifestation of the marriage.

(Which might be the reason why a betrothal was considered 99% equal to the consummation of the marriage in Jesus' day.)

The fact that you even had to hash that out "Is lust for your own wife a sin?" is a sad testament to the complete and utter ignorance of the male nature verses female nature. We can agree there are some debatable issues, but that shouldn't be one them. I realize that thread is closed, but I am going to look for it anyway, curious what the people who were against were saying.

 

[OGM]

The fact that you even had to hash that out "Is lust for your own wife a sin?" is a sad testament to the complete and utter ignorance of the male nature verses female nature. We can agree there are some debatable issues, but that shouldn't be one them. I realize that thread is closed, but I am going to look for it anyway, curious what the people who were against were saying.

Sad that it is 2014 and yet this is somehow still debated.