How to absolutely know for sure you're saved

[Simonides]

AMBASSADOR HAT​

A reminder to everyone that Requests for Christian Advice is a non-debate forum. From the forum SOP:




@Hoping2, you need to stop debating please.

@Simonides, this post is borderline flaming since you accused a member of giving incorrect advice, which may have started the regrettable debate:

Again, from the forum statement of purpose:


If you see someone posting advice that is against the site Statement of Faith, the proper thing to do is to report that to the moderators of the site as a Statement of Purpose Violation, not to flame them and begin violating more rules.


All further posts in this thread need to be about helping David, not about debating about how we are reassured of salvation. If you wish to debate that, please open a new topic in Soteriology DEBATE. Thanks!

The poster was very clearly dispensing unscriptural advice, and I respectfully asked him to take it elsewhere. Is this flaming? I honestly had to look up the definition on Wikipedia, as Websters definition didn't really fit the accusation (I loathe Wikipedia btw)
Here's what I found;
Flaming, also known as roasting, is the act of posting insults, often including profanity or other offensive language, on the internet.[1] Flaming is distinct from trolling, which is the act of someone causing discord online or in person. Flaming emerges from the anonymity that Internet forums provide for users which allows them to act more aggressively.

I assure you, I did not insult this brother. If its insults you are looking for, they are literally everywhere in this forum. I can also assure you that anonymity had nothing to do with my response. I'm no different face to face, ask anyone who knows me.
I was however, very direct.
Telling a young man that he cannot now, nor will he ever in this lifetime KNOW whether or not he has been saved is the height of scriptural irresponsibility.

I know that love is not rude, and if I came off as such I apologize. But there is also such a thing as context, which you conveniently overlooked.

"Friend, I'm trying really hard to help this young man. You and I can debate later if you wish. Please pray for us. Thank you."


I understand that we live in very sensitive times with lots of sensitive people milling about. If only they were more sensitive to the Holy Spirit, they might be less offended, and more useful in His service. I was not aware of your rules against debate in an advisory thread, but its a great rule. Am I seriously being chastised for inadvertently enforcing it? That's funny right there.

"Oh you foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you?"
Spoken by the same guy that told us "love is not rude."

Thank you for putting and end to the debate, better late than never. Hopefully young David returns to finish our conversation.
If you are going to moderate, moderate.

If you need more volunteers, please ask.

This is very serious business, planting seeds and watering souls. I'm sure you agree. Its like fishing, I might have let one off the hook today because a lot of background noise.

Yes, I was irritated. And a bit curt. I'll try harder next time.
But all I wanted was to help that young man into the same
understanding of the Father heart of God that I myself have been blessed with. Who knows if any of us will ever get that opportunity again?

This is warfare, not politics. You're problem is with the camel eaters, not me.

Much love and much peace in Christ Jesus.

 

[linux.poet]

AMBASSADOR HAT​

If you are going to moderate, moderate.

Okay, so technically I’m not a moderator, I’m a forum mentor for new members, is basically the idea behind my role, along with some forum upkeep tasks like moving threads. Basically I try to educate folk on how things work so they don’t get banned for not knowing before they even have a chance to contribute.

Yes, I know the Ambassador name is confusing - its about as bad as S.H.I.E.L.D. To make matters worse, I was an actual forum moderator on this forum awhile back so I’m used to my mod voice. When I first became an Ambassador I tried to make myself seem friendlier but apparently I’m regressing back to my old ways and probably should just reapply to become a mod again lol. Challenge accepted.

The poster was very clearly dispensing unscriptural advice, and I respectfully asked him to take it elsewhere. Is this flaming? I honestly had to look up the definition on Wikipedia, as Websters definition didn't really fit the accusation (I loathe Wikipedia btw)
Here's what I found;
Flaming, also known as roasting, is the act of posting insults, often including profanity or other offensive language, on the internet.[1] Flaming is distinct from trolling, which is the act of someone causing discord online or in person. Flaming emerges from the anonymity that Internet forums provide for users which allows them to act more aggressively.

This forums’ definition of flaming is actually the strangest on the internet, so I understand why you’re confused:

Flaming and Goading​

• Do not personally attack (insult, belittle, mock, ridicule) other members or groups of members on CF, or use nicknames to do so. A list of unacceptable names can be found here.. Address only the content of the post and not the poster.

It’s the last line that I bolded that trips people up a lot. Any negative comment about another member is flaming. If you make a negative comment about anything, you need to make it clear that negative comment refers to the person’s message and not to the person themselves. This is further reinforced further down the rules. (Your post wasn’t quite clear enough, which led for my brain to go back and forth.)

• "Calling out" a member is an unsolicited comment about another member in reference to something they may have said, their personal beliefs, their signature, or their avatar (challenging the member in a negative manner). This applies to any thread, whether the called out member is participating in that thread or not. Do not quote, or make comments about another member, in your signature or user title.

Telling a young man that he cannot now, nor will he ever in this lifetime KNOW whether or not he has been saved is the height of scriptural irresponsibility.

I know, but in this forum section, unfortunately you have to let him be irresponsible unless his advice is against the site Statement of Faith. If you wanted to confront him for it, you can actually quote his post using multi quote, go to Soteriology DEBATE and start a new topic with that quote in it to go after his position.

Unfortunately for you, we do have some Catholics on the site who teach that salvation is uncertain even in the afterlife, so there are people who disagree with you that certain knowledge of salvation is essential spiritual responsibility in teaching on the forum. We welcome everyone claiming the banner of Christ under the Nicene Creed, regardless of their teaching on other positions. So if you ask this forum for advice, what you get is a mixed bag. It’s just how it works.

I know you’re trying to help David, and I honestly think you have posted some other contributions that David may find helpful for his situation if he ever comes back here. All good over here, peace out.

 

[Midwestern Loner]

I like this video as it spells out being saved in a simple way:

 

[RileyG]

Trust, trust, trust, trust, trust, in the mercy of God! Put all of your hope and confidence in him! Feelings come and go. His love and word endure forever.

 

[timf]

What you are looking for is assurance of salvation. There are some direct but general indicators such as the gospel being foolishness to those that are perishing. But for something more solid, you may have to grow in your faith (Eph 4). This is done by transitioning from walking in the flesh to walking by the Spirit (Gal 5). As you mature, you will also grow in certainty of the indwelling Spirit.

 

[HarleyER]

Ok so i'm freaking out right now over here. I need to absolutely, 100% foolproof, 100% watertight, no doubt know for sure if I'm saved. I'm a believer and baptized but I cannot say 100% for sure if I'm saved. I've been fighting and searching everywhere for the past 5 years but I cannot know it for sure unless God told it to me personally. I've asked other believers, spend hundreds of hours on the internet searching and analysing every article there is on this topic, thousands of hours ruminating in my head but I cannot come to absolute certainty. I cannot go to the bible because there are enough verses that hinge on the possibility that I might not be saved and I need to know 100% for sure. I cannot live by faith alone, there is too much at stake here, I NEED TO KNOW FOR SURE!

1 John tells us HOW we know that we are born again and how we know our faith is genuine. It also tells us what false Christians are like.

HOW WE KNOW WE ARE BORN AGAIN.

Throughout the book of 1 John, John list seven traits of being born again.

1st Jn 2:29 – We practice righteousness. -You know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

1st John 3:9- We don’t make sin a habit. - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1st John 4:7- We love one another. Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

1st John 5:1 (twice)- We believe that Jesus is the Christ and love Jesus. Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.

1st John 5:4- We have overcome the world by our faith. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

1st John 5:18-The evil one does not touch us. We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

HOW WE KNOW WE ARE GENUINE CHRISTIANS

1st John 1:7 – Walk in the light.

1st John 1:9 – Confess our sin.

1st John 2:5 – Keep His commandments.

1st John 2:6 – Walk like Him.

1st John 2:10 – Love one another.

1st John 4:21 – Confess that Jesus is the Son of God.

 

[Bob Crowley]

Ok so i'm freaking out right now over here. I need to absolutely, 100% foolproof, 100% watertight, no doubt know for sure if I'm saved. I'm a believer and baptized but I cannot say 100% for sure if I'm saved. I've been fighting and searching everywhere for the past 5 years but I cannot know it for sure unless God told it to me personally. I've asked other believers, spend hundreds of hours on the internet searching and analysing every article there is on this topic, thousands of hours ruminating in my head but I cannot come to absolute certainty. I cannot go to the bible because there are enough verses that hinge on the possibility that I might not be saved and I need to know 100% for sure. I cannot live by faith alone, there is too much at stake here, I NEED TO KNOW FOR SURE!

My suggestion is that you just hang in there. I think we all go through a stage of being unsure, and sometimes the answer is simply perseverance.

If you spend your time freaking out about "being saved", all you are doing is setting yourself up for more anxiety.

Meanwhile get involved in something where you're doing something for others eg. a local charity, and get your eyes off yourself.

That's part of your problem - it's all about you.

 

[Hoping2]

I believe is is allowed since it is the Spirit of God that says it.

1 John 1:8
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Now if that is not allowed. I'm in the wrong place and need to find a Christian forum.
So as I said, anyone who says they have not sinned is a liar.

It may be so that we don't know tomorrow and can not see around corners. We are human.
And our faith if sincere places us under the protection of God.
Romans 8:31
38 And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love. 39 No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We can accept it, or refuse it that is our only choice. He does not give up on us.

I just scrolled up and read that this is a non debate thread.
So lets skip the debate and consider this scriptural advice.
I also see that this should be directed to the op. So I will do so when I get on a real computer. It's bedtime.

May the Lord bless your sleep...

 

[Hoping2]

Ok so i'm freaking out right now over here. I need to absolutely, 100% foolproof, 100% watertight, no doubt know for sure if I'm saved. I'm a believer and baptized but I cannot say 100% for sure if I'm saved. I've been fighting and searching everywhere for the past 5 years but I cannot know it for sure unless God told it to me personally. I've asked other believers, spend hundreds of hours on the internet searching and analysing every article there is on this topic, thousands of hours ruminating in my head but I cannot come to absolute certainty. I cannot go to the bible because there are enough verses that hinge on the possibility that I might not be saved and I need to know 100% for sure. I cannot live by faith alone, there is too much at stake here, I NEED TO KNOW FOR SURE!

Take things one day at a time.
One hour at a time, when necessary.

 

[David2019]

My suggestion is that you just hang in there. I think we all go through a stage of being unsure, and sometimes the answer is simply perseverance.

If you spend your time freaking out about "being saved", all you are doing is setting yourself up for more anxiety.

Meanwhile get involved in something where you're doing something for others eg. a local charity, and get your eyes off yourself.

That's part of your problem - it's all about you.

J already spend a good amount of my time helping others. This is more of a personal problem that I cannot run away from, it always catches me eventually.

 

[Sacred.Beautiful.]

I can very much sympathize with your struggle for certainty. Have you tried taking your fears to God and surrendering them to Him in prayer?

 

[Simonides]

AMBASSADOR HAT​

Okay, so technically I’m not a moderator, I’m a forum mentor for new members, is basically the idea behind my role, along with some forum upkeep tasks like moving threads. Basically I try to educate folk on how things work so they don’t get banned for not knowing before they even have a chance to contribute.

Yes, I know the Ambassador name is confusing - its about as bad as S.H.I.E.L.D. To make matters worse, I was an actual forum moderator on this forum awhile back so I’m used to my mod voice. When I first became an Ambassador I tried to make myself seem friendlier but apparently I’m regressing back to my old ways and probably should just reapply to become a mod again lol. Challenge accepted.

This forums’ definition of flaming is actually the strangest on the internet, so I understand why you’re confused:


It’s the last line that I bolded that trips people up a lot. Any negative comment about another member is flaming. If you make a negative comment about anything, you need to make it clear that negative comment refers to the person’s message and not to the person themselves. This is further reinforced further down the rules. (Your post wasn’t quite clear enough, which led for my brain to go back and forth.)




I know, but in this forum section, unfortunately you have to let him be irresponsible unless his advice is against the site Statement of Faith. If you wanted to confront him for it, you can actually quote his post using multi quote, go to Soteriology DEBATE and start a new topic with that quote in it to go after his position.

Unfortunately for you, we do have some Catholics on the site who teach that salvation is uncertain even in the afterlife, so there are people who disagree with you that certain knowledge of salvation is essential spiritual responsibility in teaching on the forum. We welcome everyone claiming the banner of Christ under the Nicene Creed, regardless of their teaching on other positions. So if you ask this forum for advice, what you get is a mixed bag. It’s just how it works.

I know you’re trying to help David, and I honestly think you have posted some other contributions that David may find helpful for his situation if he ever comes back here. All good over here, peace out.

Thank you very much for taking the time to spell all that out for me. I'll have to read it again, probably more than once.

 

[Paul4JC]

J already spend a good amount of my time helping others. This is more of a personal problem that I cannot run away from, it always catches me eventually.

Many struggle with their faith because it's Jesus "plus" this or that on which their salvation depends. This is wrong thinking as it is Jesus alone that saves us from our sins, and salvation is in him alone as the Scripture teaches. Are you depending on other things and your own works? Hope the following helps you on your journey.


31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. [Jhn 20:31 NIV]

12 Salvation is found in no one else "but Jesus", for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved." [Act 4:12 NIV] (emphasis added)

17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God "in Christ" is revealed--a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith." [Rom 1:17 NIV] ” (emphasis added).

23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, [1Co 1:23 NIV]


Not, Jesus plus church
Not, Jesus plus works.
Not, Jesus plus bible knowledge.
Not, Jesus plus _____________


20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. 21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, [Rom 3:20-22 NIV]


3 What does Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." 4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed are those whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will never count against them."

... 23 The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. [Rom 4:3-8, 23-25 NIV]

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith (in Christ)--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. [Eph 2:8-9 NIV] (emphasis added)

 

[timothyu]

Not, Jesus plus church
Not, Jesus plus works.
Not, Jesus plus bible knowledge.
Not, Jesus plus _____________

Yes salvation is in Him alone as he fulfilled the Father's requirements to bring about the resurrection and the new kingdom. He did His bit but if we wish to be a part of that new world we have to first rid ourselves of our backwards self centred ways, reject this world we have made in our image and instead, follow Jesus' 2 commandments as commanded.

 

[Danthemailman]

1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

 

[Hoping2]

1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Do you think that liars, murderers, adulterers, and thieves, really believe in the name of Jesus Christ ?

 

[timothyu]

Do you think that liars, murderers, adulterers, and thieves, really believe in the name of Jesus Christ ?

Can they not repent of the reason for their ways (reject selfishness)?

 

[Danthemailman]

Do you think that liars, murderers, adulterers, and thieves, really believe in the name of Jesus Christ ?

No. That is 'descriptive' of the unrighteous (1 Corinthians 6:9-10) in contrast with those who were washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:11)

 

[Hoping2]

Can they not repent of the reason for their ways (reject selfishness)?

The reason for their ways is their love of the "flesh".
They can repent of sin, but it takes baptism in the name of Jesus Christ to both wash away past sin (Acts 2:38, 22:16) and provide the destruction of the "flesh"/old man. (Rom 6:6, Gal 5:24)

 

[Hoping2]

No. That is 'descriptive' of the unrighteous (1 Corinthians 6:9-10) in contrast with those who were washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:11)

Amen !