God's Order of Salvation

[Diamond72]

A person has either believed in Jesus or they have not. Works play no part in determining if a person has or has not believed in Jesus.

Works is evidence that we believe.

1 John 1:9:"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Jesus said to follow HIs example. 1 John 2:6 "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and remain in His love."

Matthew 7 23 "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

 

[d taylor]

Works is evidence that we believe.

1 John 1:9:"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Jesus said to follow HIs example. 1 John 2:6 "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and remain in His love."

Matthew 7 23 "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

-
​

May be for some people but many nonbelievers have works. The nonbelievers in Matthew 7 did quite a few things we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
But Jesus never knew them! Why because they never believed in Jesus for Eternal Life.

The second and third soil did not have works but they did believe in Jesus. They just let the world affect their faith.

 

[David Lamb]

-
​

May be for some people but many nonbelievers have works. The nonbelievers in Matthew 7 did quite a few things we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
But Jesus never knew them! Why because they never believed in Jesus for Eternal Life.

The second and third soil did not have works but they did believe in Jesus. They just let the world affect their faith.

It's true that many nonbelievers do good works, but the point surely is that true belief in the Lord Jesus Christ will result in a change in the way the person lives. If a person claims to be a Christian, but there is absolutely no difference in their lives, their belief is suspect, to say the least.

 

[d taylor]

It's true that many nonbelievers do good works, but the point surely is that true belief in the Lord Jesus Christ will result in a change in the way the person lives. If a person claims to be a Christian, but there is absolutely no difference in their lives, their belief is suspect, to say the least.

-
​

So are all people who need God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation are adulterous, murdering monsters.

The reality is everyday, hard working law abiding good people are pouring into eternal life without having believed in Jesus. Who will remain eternally separated from God and the free gift of God"s Life, who final eternal place will be the lake of fire. Because they never believed in Jesus and not because they did not change their life.

The sad part about this, is a message (belief in Jesus) that God has intended to be so simple to understand and to believe. To be restored back into God's family as a child of God. Has been so complicated and messed up by man and their self righteous agenda.
That this has only confused people and a majority of people can not see and even understand and believe a simple very clear verse like. Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

No they have to say, you must repent or be baptized, you must live and obedient life, you must confess Christ, make Jesus Lord of you life so on and so on. The false ways people have conjured up are endless.

 

[David Lamb]

-
​

So are all people who need God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation are adulterous, murdering monsters.

The reality is everyday, hard working law abiding good people are pouring into eternal life without having believed in Jesus. Who will remain eternally separated from God and the free gift of God"s Life, who final eternal place will be the lake of fire. Because they never believed in Jesus and not because they did not change their life.

The sad part about this, is a message (belief in Jesus) that God has intended to be so simple to understand and to believe. To be restored back into God's family as a child of God. Has been so complicated and messed up by man and their self righteous agenda.
That this has only confused people and a majority of people can not see and even understand and believe a simple very clear verse like. Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

No they have to say, you must repent or be baptized, you must live and obedient life, you must confess Christ, make Jesus Lord of you life so on and so on. The false ways people have conjured up are endless.

I never said that "all people who need God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation are adulterous, murdering monsters."

Your idea of "many people pouring into eternal life without having believed in Jesus" doesn't seem to fit with what Jesus taught:

Joh 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
Joh 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Joh 6:47 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
Joh 3:14-15 “14 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.”

It seems that we agree that belief on the Lord Jesus Christ must come first. Our "good works" cannot save us.

 

[d taylor]

I never said that "all people who need God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation are adulterous, murdering monsters."

Your idea of "many people pouring into eternal life without having believed in Jesus" doesn't seem to fit with what Jesus taught:

Joh 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
Joh 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Joh 6:47 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
Joh 3:14-15 “14 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.”

It seems that we agree that belief on the Lord Jesus Christ must come first. Our "good works" cannot save us.

-
​

The verses here state that few find life.

“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

 

[Diamond72]

May be for some people but many nonbelievers have works.

Sometimes non believers live better than believers do.

 

[d taylor]

Sometimes non believers live better than believers do.

-
​

That may be the case, but it is not about living well. But about, has a person believed in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation.

 

[Diamond72]

God's free gift of Eternal Life

A gift is not a gift if you do not receive it. The Bible talks about a robe of righteousness. We are to throw away our old filthy rags in exchange for the wedding garment. Remember the parable of the guest that arrives without wedding clothes, and the king has him thrown out into the darkness.

 

[d taylor]

A gift is not a gift if you do not receive it. The Bible talks about a robe of righteousness. We are to throw away our old filthy rags in exchange for the wedding garment. Remember the parable of the guest that arrives without wedding clothes, and the king has him thrown out into the darkness.

-
​

Really what is your point. It is obvious from The Bible that to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life. A person has to receive it and it is clearly stated in The Bible the way to receive God's free gift is by belief in Jesus.

 

[Diamond72]

Really what is your point.

The imagery of our "wedding dress washed in the blood" is closely tied to the concept of spiritual purity and redemption found throughout the New Testament. One key scripture that touches on this is Revelation 7:14:

> "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

This verse symbolizes believers being purified and made righteous through the sacrificial blood of Jesus. It's a powerful metaphor for the transformative power of Christ's sacrifice.

 

[d taylor]

The imagery of our "wedding dress washed in the blood" is closely tied to the concept of spiritual purity and redemption found throughout the New Testament. One key scripture that touches on this is Revelation 7:14:

> "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

This verse symbolizes believers being purified and made righteous through the sacrificial blood of Jesus. It's a powerful metaphor for the transformative power of Christ's sacrifice.

-
​

I am not coming out of the great tribulation. Revelation 7 is addressing specific believes who come out of the great tribulation (last 3&1/2 years).

 

[Diamond72]

I am not coming out of the great tribulation. Revelation 7 is addressing specific believes who come out of the great tribulation (last 3&1/2 years).

1 John 1:7 Clearly says the Blood of Jesus purified us from all sin. "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin."

So are you saying that our garment does not represent our flesh? In biblical symbolism, garments often represent more than just physical clothing. They can symbolize righteousness, purity, or the state of one’s soul. For instance, in Revelation 19:8, it says, "Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear. (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people)."

 

[d taylor]

1 John 1:7 Clearly says the Blood of Jesus purified us from all sin. "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin."

So are you saying that our garment does not represent our flesh? In biblical symbolism, garments often represent more than just physical clothing. They can symbolize righteousness, purity, or the state of one’s soul. For instance, in Revelation 19:8, it says, "Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear. (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people)."

-
​

You are all over posting verses from different context. Trying to make what point i still do not know.

This discussion began with you quoting a sentence in a post i made post 155# in which you did not understand what the writer of the article was saying.

So i am not sure why we are discussing garments that believers may wear eventually in heaven during the tribulation and in eternity.

 

[Diamond72]

garments that believers may wear eventually in heaven during the tribulation and in eternity.

The garments mentioned in scriptures like Revelation 19:8 symbolize righteousness, purity, and the soul’s state, rather than the physical body itself.

The imagery of garments washed in the blood of Jesus highlights spiritual cleansing and transformation. This aligns with 1 John 1:7, emphasizing purification from sin. So, while garments symbolize our spiritual state, our flesh is more about our physical existence and human nature.

Both metaphors are powerful in conveying different aspects of our faith journey.

 

[d taylor]

The garments mentioned in scriptures like Revelation 19:8 symbolize righteousness, purity, and the soul’s state, rather than the physical body itself.

The imagery of garments washed in the blood of Jesus highlights spiritual cleansing and transformation. This aligns with 1 John 1:7, emphasizing purification from sin. So, while garments symbolize our spiritual state, our flesh is more about our physical existence and human nature.

Both metaphors are powerful in conveying different aspects of our faith journey.

-
​

Ok, well looks like you are hung up on these garments.

 

[Diamond72]

Ok well looks like you are hung up on these garments.

My wife comes from a third world nation and they do not have a lot of money. When she first came to America the thrift store had four or five hundred dollar wedding dresses for fourty or fifty dollars. That is ten cents on the dollar. They most likely paid that much just to have them custom cleaned.

So she bought some wedding garments for people that she knew were getting married. Her best friend bought her wedding dress which was only around $100. When we got married the church was packed. There must have been 300 people. You know how they get excited about weddings and dressing proper. I almost had a suit custom made, but decided I did not want to spend $100 on a suit I would have only wore once. So do I think wedding garments are important. More for some people than for others.

What about the flower girls? Do you think it is important to dress them up. Someday they hope to get married.

 

[Dan Perez]

Works is evidence that we believe.

1 John 1:9:"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Jesus said to follow HIs example. 1 John 2:6 "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and remain in His love."

Matthew 7 23 "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

But Eph 2:9 reads , NOT // OU , is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE and that means NOTTTTTTTTTTT of WORKS EVER .

dan p

 

[Diamond72]

But Eph 2:9 reads , NOT // OU , is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE and that means NOTTTTTTTTTTT of WORKS EVER .

We talked about this before. Paul quotes David in Romans. David says under the law we can be made to be good. But Paul tells us under Grace we can be right with God. Righteousness of God is a work of the Grace of God in us. It takes more than "good" work. It takes God doing a work in us and in our lives.

Good works then becomes the evidence that we are saved.

They put one stint in me 20 years ago and then the doctor sent me to classes on diet and how to avoid the food that causes heart attacks. Recently I had a procedure to check for blood clots and all was clear. Not clots no balloons. But my brother died from diet related heart disease.

The sons of Eli, Hophni and Phinehas are mentioned in 1 Samuel 2:12-17. They were considered evil because they disregarded God's laws, especially those concerning the sacrificial offerings. They took the best parts of the meat, including the fat, which was supposed to be burned as a pleasing aroma to the Lord. This act of selfishness and disrespect highlighted their contempt for the sacred duties they were entrusted with.

David’s expression of love for God's law, seen in Psalms like Psalm 119:97, reflects his deep reverence and devotion. He viewed God's law not just as rules but as divine guidance that brings wisdom, joy, and life.

For David, the law was a means to connect with God, understand His will, and live righteously. It was about cherishing the spiritual and moral framework that God provided.

A significant theological point. David’s reverence for the law reflects an earnest desire to follow God’s commands and live righteously. Paul, on the other hand, emphasizes that true righteousness comes through faith and God’s grace, not merely by observing the law. Romans 3:21-24 highlights this beautifully, explaining how righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ.

It's about a transformation that goes beyond external compliance—God’s grace working in our hearts and lives.