For all eternity - "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before God to Worship"

[LittleLambofJesus]

Bob Ryan, Travis wrote that the new covenant has yet to begin.

Are you in agreement with him?

That is utter nonsense, at least according to the author of Hebrews:

http://biblehub.com/hebrews/12-22.htm

Heb 12:
22 But ye have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

12:18-29 Mount Sinai, on which the Jewish church state was formed, was a mount such as might be touched, though forbidden to be so, a place that could be felt; so the Mosaic dispensation was much in outward and earthly things.
The gospel state is kind and condescending, suited to our weak frame. Under the gospel all may come with boldness to God's presence........
The Gospel church is called Mount Zion; there believers have clearer views of heaven, and more heavenly tempers of soul. All the children of God are heirs, and every one has the privileges of the first-born. Let a soul be supposed to join that glorious assembly and church above, that is yet unacquainted with God, still carnally-minded, loving this present world and state of things, looking back to it

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6060454
The Mountain in Matt 21 question

Matthew 21:21
Jesus answering said to them "Verily I am saying to ye, if ever ye may be having Faith, and no ye may be doubting, not only the of the fig-tree ye shall be doing, but even-ever to this Mountain ye may saying, 'Be being lifted up! and be being cast! into the Sea', it shall be becoming"; [Revelation 8:8]

Hebrew 12:18
For ye came not near to the Mountain touched and scorched with fire, and to blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

Revelation 8:8
And the second messenger did sound, and as it were a great Mountain [OC/Mt Sinai?] with fire burning was cast into the Sea,.......

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm
The Destruction Of JERUSALEM
An Absolute and Irresistible PROOF OF THE DIVINE ORIGIN OF CHRISTIANITY:

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world;
the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived;
the solemn warnings and admonitions which they hold out to all nations, but especially such as are favoured with the light and blessings of REVELATION...............

..................................

.

 

[bugkiller]

That is utter nonsense, at least according to the author of Hebrews:

http://biblehub.com/hebrews/12-22.htm

Heb 12:
22 But ye have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

12:18-29 Mount Sinai, on which the Jewish church state was formed, was a mount such as might be touched, though forbidden to be so, a place that could be felt; so the Mosaic dispensation was much in outward and earthly things.
The gospel state is kind and condescending, suited to our weak frame. Under the gospel all may come with boldness to God's presence........
The Gospel church is called Mount Zion; there believers have clearer views of heaven, and more heavenly tempers of soul. All the children of God are heirs, and every one has the privileges of the first-born. Let a soul be supposed to join that glorious assembly and church above, that is yet unacquainted with God, still carnally-minded, loving this present world and state of things, looking back to it

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6060454
The Mountain in Matt 21 question

Matthew 21:21
Jesus answering said to them "Verily I am saying to ye, if ever ye may be having Faith, and no ye may be doubting, not only the of the fig-tree ye shall be doing, but even-ever to this Mountain ye may saying, 'Be being lifted up! and be being cast! into the Sea', it shall be becoming"; [Revelation 8:8]

Hebrew 12:18
For ye came not near to the Mountain touched and scorched with fire, and to blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

Revelation 8:8
And the second messenger did sound, and as it were a great Mountain [OC/Mt Sinai?] with fire burning was cast into the Sea,.......

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm
The Destruction Of JERUSALEM
An Absolute and Irresistible PROOF OF THE DIVINE ORIGIN OF CHRISTIANITY:

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world;
the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived;
the solemn warnings and admonitions which they hold out to all nations, but especially such as are favoured with the light and blessings of REVELATION...............

..................................

.

Excellent post.

bugkiller

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Excellent post.

bugkiller

Thks. I am still scratching my head over this statement T93 posted.

The new covenant hasn't started yet, when it does all people will know God and Israel will be back in their land.
.

Perhaps we should start a thread on that.
This member is a Baptist and that Denomination is mainly Dispensationalists and believe in a future "Rapture" and one reason why he believes in the NC hasn't started yet. Don't know........



.

 

[bugkiller]

Thks. I am still scratching my head over this statement T93 posted.

Perhaps we should start a thread on that.
This member is a Baptist and that Denomination is mainly Dispensationalists and believe in a future "Rapture" and one reason why he believes in the NC hasn't started yet. Don't know........



.

He isn't a Baptist.

bugkiller

 

[Travis93]

Thks. I am still scratching my head over this statement T93 posted.

Perhaps we should start a thread on that.
This member is a Baptist and that Denomination is mainly Dispensationalists and believe in a future "Rapture" and one reason why he believes in the NC hasn't started yet. Don't know........



.

I don't align with Baptist ideas anymore, when I read that only false prophets lead away from the law in Deuteronomy 13:1-5 I realized lawlessness couldn't be the right answer.

 

[FredVB]

The passage referred to speaks specifically of Sabbath to Sabbath, Jesus still spoke for Sabbath meant for man, so it is significant in that passage.

But who is talking about Heaven in this discussion? Are you confusing what there is of eternity with what happens with Christ's return to this world? The distinction is left, with the expression in those passages, "just as the new heavens and the new earth I make will endure" for comparison to the enduring of "your offspring and your name".

Scripture is asked for regarding the commandments? The scripture just used from Isaiah 66 is still good for that, not to mention other passages from Isaiah, such as Isaiah 56:6, and passages from other old testament scriptures as well. There still is Jesus speaking to commandments shown in Matthew 5:18-19.

Saying gentiles won't be required to be Jews has the basis for saying it from passages such as Acts 15:19.

Jesus was never a horrible person. There is though no great basis to say he was eating meat, other than interpretation that isn't certain. The perfection of Yahweh from the beginning in the creation did not have animal meat given to mankind as food. Meat for food is not part of perfection. It was permitted for food thousands of years afterward, after the global flood, and Noah's sacrifice to Yahweh, when there wasn't the abundant growth of vegetation for food, and meat mentioned since then is identified with sacrifice, which is in typifying Christ dying on our behalf, and such is fulfilled, animals don't have to die for us now. In that permission that had been given, which never was a requirement, any blood was never to be had with it, but this gets disregarded. Human desire and obsession has killing of animals continue, but this is not a virtue. It is not healthy to keep having meat, or even animal products, which I can show abundantly, with there being health problems that come from that which can be reversed with avoiding the animal products, and processed foods. It has great abuse to animals by many billions every year, it also takes up a great great deal more resources, and people are starving, and some dying, from that. There is a huge impact with harm to environments from it, and there is more emissions of greenhouse gases contributing to global warming from it. It won't always continue, scriptures show that, and it won't continue while Jesus is here when he returns.

Even while Sabbath would be a shadow, it has nothing said anywhere that Sabbaths won't continue, and when Yahweh made it holy, why wouldn't it continue? But indeed Jesus is the reality, and the rest of Sabbath, with coming to God, doesn't have reality, as always, without Jesus Christ. What is said is that none of us should judge others of us regarding these things.

NOPE!!!!! That alone is your idea. The passage would mean exactly the same if the word "Saturday or Monday" were used. The new moon in the passage evidences this.

That could only be true if the Sabbath had been meaningless, but it had been meaningful and still is, and we understand meaning from it. And meaning will be understood from new moons.

If Jesus kept Passover He ate meat.

You don't understand that sacrifice was essential with Passover but it was not requiring each to eat meat, so that was a faulty conclusion.

Yeah not to mention:
Luke 24:42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
Luke 24:43 And he took it, and did eat before them
Jesus was not a vegetarian.

Some translations of certain versions say that, but this understanding is not universal. It is the only verse you could have for it, after his death to show he was alive, and some manuscripts just show he took the honey to have. There is very early tradition that early followers he had became vegetarian, so in this that isn't conclusive.

If the SDAs and others are going to continue to quote Is 66 to bolster their Sabbath doctrine then posing the question about walking around dead bodies and men living to over 100 and babies not dying is very relevant. All those passages come from Isaiah's thoughts about the new Heavens. Something does not jive.

Isaiah was writing about some sort of Heaven. I hope I am not confusing anything with anything.

More confusion did Jesus keep Passover? There is your answer about meat eating.

You are a bit hard to understand. Meat has nothing to do with perfection. Perfection is not of the body, it is of the mind. If it included the body then we would all fail in our attempt to gain perfection.

Who are you to judge God who gave man meat to eat? Jesus ate it and I am pretty sure you would quote walking as Jesus walked. If it was good enough for Jesus it is good enough for me. Remember, none of us are going to escape this Earth without entering the grave unless Jesus comes first. Some people have an agenda for about everything. Yours is meat. You have presented some truth I will admit, but not enough to stop the World's population from eating it.

Sabbath is a shadow not would be. What happens in Heaven is mostly a guess. Sabbath was certainly not for all mankind or God would have revealed it to all of mankind like He did for Israel. What significance would Sabbath be to the Aborigines or Eskimos in heaven?

He only made it Holy for Israel. Israel failed. Why should God continue it. The Temple was Holy. He made Holy ground. Many things were Holy that have absolutely no significance now.

Come unto Me and I will give you rest. Jesus is reality Sabbath is but a shadow of reality.

The understanding there is limited with believing is only heaven, and not this world after Christ returns and reigns.

I answered how meat didn't need to be had at Passover, but personal remarks aren't called for, just say it is hard for you to understand. In heaven meat isn't had.

I don't judge any.

Yahweh did not say the Sabbath was made holy for Israel, it was just said the Sabbath is holy.

 

[bugkiller]

That could only be true if the Sabbath had been meaningless, but it had been meaningful and still is, and we understand meaning from it. And meaning will be understood from new moons.



You don't understand that sacrifice was essential with Passover but it was not requiring each to eat meat, so that was a faulty conclusion.



Some translations of certain versions say that, but this understanding is not universal. It is the only verse you could have for it, after his death to show he was alive, and some manuscripts just show he took the honey to have. There is very early tradition that early followers he had became vegetarian, so in this that isn't conclusive.



The understanding there is limited with believing is only heaven, and not this world after Christ returns and reigns.

I answered how meat didn't need to be had at Passover, but personal remarks aren't called for, just say it is hard for you to understand. In heaven meat isn't had.

I don't judge any.

Yahweh did not say the Sabbath was made holy for Israel, it was just said the Sabbath is holy.

We have very different Bibles.

bugkiller

 

[Bob S]

That could only be true if the Sabbath had been meaningless, but it had been meaningful and still is, and we understand meaning from it. And meaning will be understood from new moons.



You don't understand that sacrifice was essential with Passover but it was not requiring each to eat meat, so that was a faulty conclusion.



Some translations of certain versions say that, but this understanding is not universal. It is the only verse you could have for it, after his death to show he was alive, and some manuscripts just show he took the honey to have. There is very early tradition that early followers he had became vegetarian, so in this that isn't conclusive.



The understanding there is limited with believing is only heaven, and not this world after Christ returns and reigns.

I answered how meat didn't need to be had at Passover, but personal remarks aren't called for, just say it is hard for you to understand. In heaven meat isn't had.

I don't judge any.

Yahweh did not say the Sabbath was made holy for Israel, it was just said the Sabbath is holy.

All I see in your post is a bunch of rationalization. God gave animal flesh to man after the flood. If it is so terrible then why did He do such a thing. As far as Jesus eating meat I would be very careful trying to explain that away. Your rational is irrational. Your answer about Passover didn't include any proof that some may not have partaken of the Lamb. Jesus is the Lamb and we all can either accept Him or reject Him.

12 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt, 2 “This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year. 3 Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamba]">[a] for his family, one for each household. 4 If any household is too small for a whole lamb, they must share one with their nearest neighbor, having taken into account the number of people there are. You are to determine the amount of lamb needed in accordance with what each person will eat. 5 The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats. 6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the members of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast. 9 Do not eat the meat raw or boiled in water, but roast it over a fire—with the head, legs and internal organs. 10 Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it. 11 This is how you are to eat it: with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand. Eat it in haste; it is the Lord’s Passover.

Do you see any dispensation for vegetarians? What does ''each person" and "They are" mean to you?

 

[BobRyan]

Thks. I am still scratching my head over this statement T93 posted.

Perhaps we should start a thread on that.
This member is a Baptist and that Denomination is mainly Dispensationalists and believe in a future "Rapture" and one reason why he believes in the NC hasn't started yet. Don't know........

.

I don't know of very many baptists that would leap off the cliff of claiming they are not New Covenant Christians.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob Ryan, Travis wrote that the new covenant has yet to begin. Are you in agreement with him?

Show me where he said that.

I have been claiming that the New Covenant IS "the Gospel" in all ages.

 

[BobRyan]

Help me find the word "on" in your quote, or even your passage.

bugkiller

Why??

1 Sam 7:16
And he went from year to year in circuit to Bethel, and Gilgal, and Mizpeh, and judged Israel in all those places.

Is not a way of saying that every day of the year he was in Gilgal... as we all know.

 

[Bob S]

Show me where he said that.

I have been claiming that the New Covenant IS "the Gospel" in all ages.

Why is it you do not refute his statements? maybe it is because you share the false belief that you must observe the the Sabbath that was given only to Israel.

 

[BobRyan]

I said -- "I have been claiming that the New Covenant IS "the Gospel" in all ages."

Why is it you do not refute his statements? .

Because I think my own statements about what I believe are more important than refuting someone else to please you.

Someone you are not even quoting while asking for their statement to be refuted.

So for now - I am sticking with my obvious statement above.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

If the SDAs and others are going to continue to quote Is 66 to bolster their Sabbath doctrine

Isaiah 66:23 is an example of sola scriptura affirmation of the fact that Sabbath even in the OT has the Mark 2:27 scope of "all mankind".

"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship". Is 66:23

Here then is a text you struggle with quoting so far.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"???

Over time you may become more comfortable actually looking at it, reading it... accepting it.

Keep trying.

Bob, that scripture refers to the Jerusalem that comes down from heaven.

1. "Jerusalem that comes down from heaven" is not in Isaiah 66.

2. The Isaiah 66:23 statement shows that even in the OT the "ALL MANKIND" application for the Sabbath for all eternity even after the cross - as Christ says it in Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was made for MANKIND" and in Hebrews 4 'there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" --

3. No wonder Isaiah ALSO points to gentiles blessed and affirmed for keeping the Sabbath in Isaiah 56:1-7

Yes it is Bob. Isaiah is referring to the Jerusalem from heaven. See, it says new

Isaiah 66:22 “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord,

True - Isaiah 66 does point to the Revelation 21 event. You are right.

So then that is for all eternity for all mankind - at a point after the cross.

Am I supposed to be complaining about that??

 

[BobRyan]

Notice Christ said the time has come when people will no longer worship in Jerusalem or on the mountain. How then will all people come to the mountain and worship, as its written in Isaiah? These scriptures refer to a new earth, and new Jerusalem. Revelation talks about new Jerusalem, it accompanies a new earth.

In Rev 22 God's throne, the tree of life, the streets of gold - the river of life are all in the same place - there is a physical place where these physical things are - and all mankind will come before God to worship from "Sabbath to Sabbath" just as God said.

Your injection of a John 4 discussion with the woman at the well outside of a Samaritan town - changes nothing and was never meant by Christ to delete Isaiah or to preclude Revelation 22. Reading the Bible in harmony - instead of trying to bend it back on itself to contradict -- is a better way.

 

[W2L]

Isaiah 66:23 is an example of sola scriptura affirmation of the fact that Sabbath even in the OT has the Mark 2:27 scope of "all mankind".

"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship". Is 66:23

Here then is a text you struggle with quoting so far.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"???

Over time you may become more comfortable actually looking at it, reading it... accepting it.

Keep trying.



1. "Jerusalem that comes down from heaven" is not in Isaiah 66.

2. The Isaiah 66:23 statement shows that even in the OT the "ALL MANKIND" application for the Sabbath for all eternity even after the cross - as Christ says it in Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was made for MANKIND" and in Hebrews 4 'there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" --

3. No wonder Isaiah ALSO points to gentiles blessed and affirmed for keeping the Sabbath in Isaiah 56:1-7



True - Isaiah 66 does point to the Revelation 21 event. You are right.

So then that is for all eternity for all mankind - at a point after the cross.


Am I supposed to be complaining about that??

Sabbath is so important that the apostles never commanded it even once.

 

[W2L]

In Rev 22 God's throne, the tree of life, the streets of gold - the river of life are all in the same place - there is a physical place where these physical things are - and all mankind will come before God to worship from "Sabbath to Sabbath" just as God said.

Your injection of a John 4 discussion with the woman at the well outside of a Samaritan town - changes nothing and was never meant by Christ to delete Isaiah or to preclude Revelation 22. Reading the Bible in harmony - instead of trying to bend it back on itself to contradict -- is a better way.

Our Sabbath is found in Hebrews 4, and its not a day of the week.

 

[Meowzltov]

You don't understand that sacrifice was essential with Passover but it was not requiring each to eat meat, so that was a faulty conclusion.

When there was a tabernacle or temple, it was required to actually eat the corban sacrifice. That's what a sacrifice is--a communal meal with God.

 

[bugkiller]

Why??

1 Sam 7:16
And he went from year to year in circuit to Bethel, and Gilgal, and Mizpeh, and judged Israel in all those places.

Is not a way of saying that every day of the year he was in Gilgal... as we all know.

So you refuse to admit you won't and or can't. I believe it is both.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Why is it you do not refute his statements? maybe it is because you share the false belief that you must observe the the Sabbath that was given only to Israel.

I'm sure he believes the law is the Gospel.

bugkiller