Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

[bbbbbbb]

Put that way, I would suppose, and this is just my own conjecture, that if a minister of the Word comes to a place to preach then someone there was seeking God and God responded by sending a minister. Not everyone there was seeking God, but someone was, and because that someone was seeking Him, many others will hear and potentially be saved as well.

If I understand you correctly, none of the billions of people who will never hear the gospel are seeking, nor have ever sought God, yet God sent preachers of the gospel to hundreds of millions of people who never sought God in the first place and whose end is destruction. This is similar to Noah, the preacher of righteousness. He preached to those whom came under the sound of his voice, which was hardly every person alive at the time, but the end for them all was still the same. Noah did not save himself and his family through his preaching.

 

[Brightfame52]

They are now. But they were not when they first heard the Gospel. They were dead in trespasses and sins when they first heard it, just like all those we are sent to take the Gospel to today (Matt 28:19).

Not every verse of every epistles can be applied to the unsaved; there are many that do only apply to those who have been saved already. But there are many that do have application back to those who have not yet been saved.

When they heard the Gospel they were regenerated made alive. Hearing is an activity of life friend

 

[AbbaLove]

Of all the billions of people who will never hear the gospel approximately how many do you suppose might be seeking God?

Thst' is an illogical question as it implies that only people hearing the Good News of the Gospel will earnestly seek after God. In other words people living under the Law (prior to the Gospel) were not able to estaablish as meaningful of a relationship with God as are New Covenant Christians able..

Reform theology (aka Calvinism) would conclude that God decides who will earnestly seek after Him (e.g.. David), Mankind alone of his own accord cannot establish a meaningful relationship with almighty GOD, whether living under the Law or under Grace.

One could conclude from the Title of this thread that it is God who decides who will seek after Him​

And those who know Your name will put their trust in You;
For You, Lord, have not forsaken those who seek You (Psalm 9:10).

Those who seek Him will praise the Lord (Psalm 22:26).

Let all those who seek You rejoice and be glad in You (Psalm 40:16).

In Jeremiah 29:13, God spoke these words through the prophet: “And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.” In his other book, Jeremiah wrote, “The Lord is good to those who wait for Him, to the soul who seeks Him” (Lamentations 3:25).

Similarly, in Hosea 5:15 we read, “…Then they will seek My face; In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.” Later in the same book we read, “For it is time to seek the Lord, Till He comes and rains righteousness on you (Hosea 10:12).

Many more examples of people who sought God (seek after Him) could be cited from the Old Testament. Does the New Testament teach that people can seek after God and His Righteousness by their own will power?

______________________________________

It's obvious that the OP embraces a type of reform theology (aka Calvinism)​

 

[Doug Brents]

If I understand you correctly, none of the billions of people who will never hear the gospel are seeking, nor have ever sought God, yet God sent preachers of the gospel to hundreds of millions of people who never sought God in the first place and whose end is destruction. This is similar to Noah, the preacher of righteousness. He preached to those whom came under the sound of his voice, which was hardly every person alive at the time, but the end for them all was still the same. Noah did not save himself and his family through his preaching.

I have never said that everyone seeks God, just that everyone can seek God. Yes, many will never seek God, and many that do hear the Gospel will not accept it. But many who are not seeking hear and accept it because someone near them was seeking. But we cannot base our actions on this type of conjecture. We have been commanded to go, make disciples, baptize them, and then teach them everything God has taught us. We are to go to everyone, not just those who are seeking Him.

 

[AbbaLove]

I have never said that everyone seeks God, just that everyone can seek God. Yes, many will never seek God, and many that do hear the Gospel will not accept it. But many who are not seeking hear and accept it because someone near them was seeking. But we cannot base our actions on this type of conjecture. We have been commanded to go, make disciples, baptize them, and then teach them everything God has taught us. We are to go to everyone, not just those who are seeking Him.

Hardly any mention of the significance of the Holy Spirit (in this thread) that enables one to earnestly seek after God, His Annointing, His Righteousness and spreading the Good News of the Gospels to the unsved.

There are more than a few nominal (lukewarm) Christians that don't give due significance to the working of the Holy Spirit and His Gifts (1 Corinthians 12) when it comes to their salvation (sanctification and justification).

 

[Doug Brents]

Hardly any mention of the significance of the Holy Spirit (in this thread) that enables one to earnestly seek after God, His Annointing, His Righteousness and spreading the Good News of the Gospels to the unsved.

There are more than a few nominal (lukewarm) Christians that don't give due significance to the working of the Holy Spirit and His Gifts (1 Corinthians 12) when it comes to their salvation (sanctification and justification).

To my understanding, that is not the focus of this thread. The focus here is on man's natural ability to seek God. Yes, the Holy Spirit works in us even before we are saved to help us to understand the Gospel. But He has already worked in the world to allow everyone to seek God, because as Jesus said, when He was lifted up He drew all men to Himself. Because He died, all men have the ability to come to Him because all men have been drawn toward Him by the Holy Spirit through His death.

 

[AbbaLove]

To my understanding, that is not the focus of this thread. The focus here is on man's natural ability to seek God.

By "natural" do you mean the fallen [sinful] nature of mankind? Like Peggy Lee singing "Is that all there is"? (Sad) ...

Yes, the Holy Spirit works in us even before we are saved to help us to understand the .

So, we agree that without the Holy Spirit there wouldn't even be a Bible. Without the Holy Spirit Jesus Christ would never have been born as a man.. Way to many so-called Christians and theologians take for granted the IMPORTANCE of the Holy Spirit enabling mankind to seek, obey and develop an abiding relationship with Him (Titus 3:5).

But He has already worked in the world to allow everyone to seek God, because as Jesus said, when He was lifted up He drew all men to Himself. Because He died, all men have the ability to come to Him because all men have been drawn toward Him by the Holy Spirit through His death.

Then we agree that the Holy Spirit is essential to enabling natural man to seek after, obey and know God as a friend. By this we know and have come to understand the depth and essence of His precious love. that He [willingly] laid down His life for us [because He loved us].

Too much of this thread IMO is dwelling on man's inability to seek after God, instead of God seeking after us (John 3:16)

 

[Doug Brents]

By "natural" do you mean the fallen [sinful] nature of mankind? Like Peggy Lee singing "Is that all there is"? (Sad) ...

​

So, we agree that without the Holy Spirit there wouldn't even be a Bible. Without the Holy Spirit Jesus Christ would never have been born as a man.. Way to many so-called Christians and theologians take for granted the IMPORTANCE of the Holy Spirit enabling mankind to seek, obey and develop an abiding relationship with Him (Titus 3:5).

Then we agree that the Holy Spirit is essential to enabling natural man to seek after, obey and know God as a friend. By this we know and have come to understand the depth and essence of His precious love. that He [willingly] laid down His life for us [because He loved us].

Too much of this thread IMO is dwelling on man's inability to seek after God, instead of God seeking after us (John 3:16)

Man can love God because God first loved us.
Man can seek God because God first sought us.
The Holy Spirit is important because He is part of what God is. The Holy Spirit did not enable Jesus to be born of man. Jesus could have done that Himself if the Holy Spirit didn't exist. The Holy Spirit is not more important than God, but you are correct that many people diminish His importance, overlooking what He does and who He is.

 

[AbbaLove]

The Holy Spirit did not enable Jesus to be born of man.

FWIW, empower is a synonym of enable ... Thesaurus results for ENABLE. FWIW, mankind includes men, women, children ...

“Mankind” derives from the Anglo-Saxon word “mann-cynn”. So, the argument goes that because “mann” referred to people more than men as a gender, it was gender-neutral, and so, “mann-cynn” is also gender-neutral.

The Holy Bible does not agree with your above quote ... for a mature Christian to argue otherwise is semantics (the study of meaning in language) and your above quote removes the Holy Spirit as necessary ... "Jesus could have done that Himself if the Holy Spirit didn't exist" (not possible for the Holy Spirit to not exist so a foolish premise).
"

Matthew 1:20​

But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.​

​

Luke 1:34-35​

34 And Mary said to the angel, “How will this be, since I am a virgin?”4​

35 And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of hthe Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called Holy the Son of God.​

Conclusion: Without the Holy Spirit Msry would not have conceived and given birth to Jesus. The same could be said of Issac (it was a miracle). Hopefully you still believe that the nine Gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12) are still active and in operation today. And YES, all this is relevant to "natural fallen man" being able to seek God and further enabling mankind to become a follower of Christ Jesus.

 

[Doug Brents]

FWIW, empower is a synonym of enable ... Thesaurus results for ENABLE. FWIW, mankind includes men, women, children ...

“Mankind” derives from the Anglo-Saxon word “mann-cynn”. So, the argument goes that because “mann” referred to people more than men as a gender, it was gender-neutral, and so, “mann-cynn” is also gender-neutral.

The Holy Bible does not agree with your above quote ... for a mature Christian to argue otherwise is semantics (the study of meaning in language) and your above quote removes the Holy Spirit as necessary ... "Jesus could have done that Himself if the Holy Spirit didn't exist" (not possible for the Holy Spirit to not exist so a foolish premise).
"

Matthew 1:20​

But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.​

​

Luke 1:34-35​

34 And Mary said to the angel, “How will this be, since I am a virgin?”4​

35 And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of hthe Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called Holy the Son of God.​

Conclusion: Without the Holy Spirit Msry would not have conceived and given birth to Jesus. The same could be said of Issac (it was a miracle). Hopefully you still believe that the nine Gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12) are still active and in operation today. And YES, all this is relevant to "natural fallen man" being able to seek God and further enabling mankind to become a follower of Christ Jesus.

The Holy Spirit did the action of placing Jesus in Mary's womb. If that is what you consider "empower"ing Him to become a man, fine. But the Holy Spirit did not make it possible for Jesus to become a man; Jesus has that capability in Himself, as does the Father.

 

[AbbaLove]

The Holy Spirit did the action of placing Jesus in Mary's womb. If that is what you consider "empower"ing Him to become a man, fine. But the Holy Spirit did not make it possible for Jesus to become a man; Jesus has that capability in Himself, as does the Father.

Because They are 3-in-1 the Holy Spirit has an integral function for Jesus to become a Spirit-filled man. So YES the Holy Spirit makes this possible. Whether you know it or not you are in affect negating the empowerment of the Holy Spirit when it comes to Jesus' Faithful ministry and setting an example for His followers as faithful men and women ...

The Holy Spirit did make it possible for Jesus Christ to become a man having a heart for His Father. So too the Holy Spirit enables natural man to seek after the Lord. Without the Holy Spirit it's not possible for "natural man" (mankind) to be born again (John 3:5, Titus 3:5) ... "natural [fallen] man" does not have the capability in himself. That's the point the OP is contending in his thread's title ... Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

Matthew 16:24-26​

24 Then Jesus told His disciples, “If anyone would come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me. 25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?​

The above bold/underlined portion of your quote misrepresents the importance of the enabling/empowering of the Holy Spirit in the life of Christ Jesus as well as transforming natural man in order to enable and empower him/her to become faithful followers of their Lord and Savior ... resulting in their cleansing, sanctification and justification.

 

[FredVB]

People are born guilty before God, thats why they cant and dont seek the True God

All are born marked with a sin nature, which often been called flesh, that is true, but it is not actual guilt one is born with, it will still lead any to sin. Jesus himself didn't have that, he came being like Adam, and still he never sinned, though some arbitrarily name something about what Jesus was doing that would have been sin.

God is not willing that any would perish, any people should come to repentance. Experience shows me some would look for God. I have been told that from when I was really small and just talking I would be asking about God. I could have picked up reference of God, my family were not believers though, they would not have been a good source of answers for me. God still used a process to bring me to truth I needed.

 

[bbbbbbb]

All are born marked with a sin nature, which often been called flesh, that is true, but it is not actual guilt one is born with, it will still lead any to sin. Jesus himself didn't have that, he came being like Adam, and still he never sinned, though some arbitrarily name something about what Jesus was doing that would have been sin.

God is not willing that any would perish, any people should come to repentance. Experience shows me some would look for God. I have been told that from when I was really small and just talking I would be asking about God. I could have picked up reference of God, my family were not believers though, they would not have been a good source of answers for me. God still used a process to bring me to truth I needed.

Actually, Jesus was better than Adam. Adam was created innocent of sin but still capable of committing sin which, as we sadly know, he did. Jesus, being God, was impeccable. That means that because He was God he could not sin. To be sure, He was sorely tempted, but could not and did not sin.

 

[AbbaLove]

Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?​

YES, in that He has "predestined" man with the wherewithal to seek and know God ...
NO, in the sense that without God man is helpless without God's wherewithal ...

wherewithal ... a particular quality that is necessary in order to get or achieve something:

1 Corinthians 6:10-11 (AMPC)​

10 Nor cheats (swindlers and thieves), nor greedy graspers, nor drunkards, nor foulmouthed revilers and slanderers, nor extortioners and robbers will inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God.​

11 And such some of you were [once]. But you were washed clean (purified by a complete atonement for sin and made free from the guilt of sin), and you were consecrated (set apart, hallowed), and you were justified [pronounced righteous, by trusting] in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the [Holy] Spirit of our God.​

​

Romans 8:30 (AMPC)​

30 And those whom He thus foreordained, He also called; and those whom He called, He also justified (acquitted, made righteous, putting them into right standing with Himself). And those whom He justified, He also glorified [raising them to a heavenly dignity and condition or state of being]..​

 

[Aaron112]

No.
The Creator grants freely the desire to seek Him, so no one may boast in themselves that they chose to on their own. It is a Gift, a Divine Gift, not of the flesh - the flesh which profits nothing.

 

[Aaron112]

but it is not actual guilt one is born with

Whether or not, no matter per se -
everyone is born dead in sin and trespass.

" search.brave.com/search?q=everyone+is+born+dead+in+sin+and+trespass.&source=desktop&summary=1&summary_og=f79204a6dc1c39cac8bedc

"Everyone is born dead in sin and trespass.
According to Ephesians 2:1-3, the Bible teaches that everyone is born “dead in trespasses and sins.” This phrase describes the state of humanity prior to salvation, emphasizing the idea that we are spiritually lifeless and unable to respond to God due to our sinful nature."

 

[bbbbbbb]

No.
The Creator grants freely the desire to seek Him, so no one may boast in themselves that they chose to on their own. It is a Gift, a Divine Gift, not of the flesh - the flesh which profits nothing.

I agree. I stand completely amazed at God's gift to His people through Jesus Christ.

 

[Brightfame52]

All are born marked with a sin nature, which often been called flesh, that is true, but it is not actual guilt one is born with, it will still lead any to sin. Jesus himself didn't have that, he came being like Adam, and still he never sinned, though some arbitrarily name something about what Jesus was doing that would have been sin.

God is not willing that any would perish, any people should come to repentance. Experience shows me some would look for God. I have been told that from when I was really small and just talking I would be asking about God. I could have picked up reference of God, my family were not believers though, they would not have been a good source of answers for me. God still used a process to bring me to truth I needed.

Nobody born in the flesh can please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. The flesh is totally depraved.

 

[FredVB]

Actually, Jesus was better than Adam. Adam was created innocent of sin but still capable of committing sin which, as we sadly know, he did. Jesus, being God, was impeccable. That means that because He was God he could not sin. To be sure, He was sorely tempted, but could not and did not sin.

Agreed to this. Temptations and struggle were very real to Jesus, but he would not sin, ever.

Whether or not, no matter per se -
everyone is born dead in sin and trespass.

" search.brave.com/search?q=everyone+is+born+dead+in+sin+and+trespass.&source=desktop&summary=1&summary_og=f79204a6dc1c39cac8bedc

"Everyone is born dead in sin and trespass.
According to Ephesians 2:1-3, the Bible teaches that everyone is born “dead in trespasses and sins.” This phrase describes the state of humanity prior to salvation, emphasizing the idea that we are spiritually lifeless and unable to respond to God due to our sinful nature."

Our sinful nature would not respond to God, but we are still without excuse when God makes things known to us about God and we dismiss those things still. As we are without excuse, we might turn to God then. There are believers, so there are those who do.

Nobody born in the flesh can please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. The flesh is totally depraved.

Pleasing God should not be difficult. Jesus was doing so. One time God spoke of what is "very good". That can be searched, the Bible is online. It won't be a long list. We could seek to be conforming to that more closely, but few will seek that. We can't try things from our sinful nature for doing any of it effectively.

 

[Brightfame52]

Agreed to this. Temptations and struggle were very real to Jesus, but he would not sin, ever.



Our sinful nature would not respond to God, but we are still without excuse when God makes things known to us about God and we dismiss those things still. As we are without excuse, we might turn to God then. There are believers, so there are those who do.



Pleasing God should not be difficult. Jesus was doing so. One time God spoke of what is "very good". That can be searched, the Bible is online. It won't be a long list. We could seek to be conforming to that more closely, but few will seek that. We can't try things from our sinful nature for doing any of it effectively.

Nobody born in the flesh can please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. The flesh is totally depraved.