Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

[AbbaLove]

Correct, you didn't forget. You fabricated a falsehood, and then worship that falsehood but refuse to listen to sound teaching. Scripture says that man can seek God. Not only can he, but he does seek God. None are righteous, but it does not require one to BE righteous in order to SEEK the Righteous One.

Makes one suspect he may purposely misinterpret New Covenant Scripture as a way of instagating debate (discord). Possibly a frustrated Christian that finds
some satisfaction in fabricating a falsehood.
​

 

[AbbaLove]

Unaided by God, Who "takes the initiative" in salvation, a sinner dead in trespasses and sins is not going to seek the Saviour.

Proverbs 3:5-8 (even in the OT it was possible to seek God's wisdom)
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart; do not depend on your own understanding.
6 Seek His will in all you do, and He will show you which path to take.
7 Don’t be impressed with your own wisdom. Instead, fear the Lord and turn away from evil.
8 Then you will have healing for your body and strength for your bones.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Correct, you didn't forget. You fabricated a falsehood, and then worship that falsehood but refuse to listen to sound teaching. Scripture says that man can seek God. Not only can he, but he does seek God. None are righteous, but it does not require one to BE righteous in order to SEEK the Righteous One.

Psalm 14:1 The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds;
There is no one who does good.
2 The Lord has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men
To see if there are any who understand,
Who seek after God.
3 They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt;
There is no one who does good, not even one.
4 Do all the workers of wickedness not know,
Who eat up my people as they eat bread,
And do not call upon the Lord?
5 There they are in great dread,
For God is with the righteous generation.
6 You would put to shame the counsel of the afflicted,
But the Lord is his refuge.
7 Oh, that the salvation of Israel would come out of Zion!
When the Lord restores His captive people,
Jacob will rejoice, Israel will be glad.

Psalm 53:1 The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God,”
They are corrupt, and have committed abominable injustice;
There is no one who does good.
2 God has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men
To see if there is anyone who understands,
Who seeks after God.
3 Every one of them has turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
There is no one who does good, not even one.
4 Have the workers of wickedness no knowledge,
Who eat up My people as though they ate bread
And have not called upon God?
5 There they were in great fear where no fear had been;
For God scattered the bones of him who encamped against you;
You put them to shame, because God had rejected them.
6 Oh, that the salvation of Israel would come out of Zion!
When God restores His captive people, Let Jacob rejoice, let Israel be glad.

Romans 3:9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written,

“There is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17 And the path of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

 

[Doug Brents]

That's true - one doesn't have to be righteous in order do seek the Righteous One, otherwise nobody would be saved. But the Letter to the Ephesians says that before they became Christians, the members of the church at Ephesus had been dead in trespasses and sins. Then it says:

“4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in [His] kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God,” (Eph 2:4-8 NKJV)

Unaided by God, Who "takes the initiative" in salvation, a sinner dead in trespasses and sins is not going to seek the Saviour.

Not true. God made us able to seek Him, even when we are dead in sin (Acts 17:27). Even before He saved us, He came down to us to reveal Himself to us, and allow us to seek Him, and find Him, because He is not far from any of us.

 

[BBAS 64]

That's true - one doesn't have to be righteous in order do seek the Righteous One, otherwise nobody would be saved. But the Letter to the Ephesians says that before they became Christians, the members of the church at Ephesus had been dead in trespasses and sins. Then it says:

“4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in [His] kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God,” (Eph 2:4-8 NKJV)

Unaided by God, Who "takes the initiative" in salvation, a sinner dead in trespasses and sins is not going to seek the Saviour.

Good day, David

Jesus is the seeker... Salvation is 100% the Lords work.

I once was lost... But now I am found. If Jesus did not seek and find, lost I would have remained.


Sovereign grace has pow’r alone To subdue a heart of stone;
And the moment grace is felt, Then the hardest heart will melt.
Grace alone is powerful enough to break the sinner’s bondage to wickedness.
“His grace can overcome the most obstinate habits.”
Grace breaks in to free and unshackle souls. Grace takes away the guilt of sin, the love of sin, and the dominion of sin, even hard sins like drunkenness.

Sovereign grace has power alone

Authoritative information about the hymn text Sovereign grace has power alone, with lyrics, PDF files, printable scores, MIDI files, and piano resources.

hymnary.org

In Him

Bill

 

[Brightfame52]

Correct, you didn't forget. You fabricated a falsehood, and then worship that falsehood but refuse to listen to sound teaching. Scripture says that man can seek God. Not only can he, but he does seek God. None are righteous, but it does not require one to BE righteous in order to SEEK the Righteous One.

Man naturally doesn't seek after the True God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Ps 53 2-3

2 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.

3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Ps 14 1_3

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

 

[David Lamb]

Proverbs 3:5-8 (even in the OT it was possible to seek God's wisdom)
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart; do not depend on your own understanding.
6 Seek His will in all you do, and He will show you which path to take.
7 Don’t be impressed with your own wisdom. Instead, fear the Lord and turn away from evil.
8 Then you will have healing for your body and strength for your bones.

Certainly in both Old and New Testaments sinners are encouraged to trust in the Lord, but to do so, we need Him to enable us, otherwise as those words I quoted from Ephesians 2 indicate, there is no way we could do so left to ourselves.

 

[Doug Brents]

Certainly in both Old and New Testaments sinners are encouraged to trust in the Lord, but to do so, we need Him to enable us, otherwise as those words I quoted from Ephesians 2 indicate, there is no way we could do so left to ourselves.

The fact that God has addressed Himself to us, and given us covenants, and written His Scriptures by human hands, and given His Son to by our Kinsman Redeemer constitute His enabling us.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The fact that God has addressed Himself to us, and given us covenants, and written His Scriptures by human hands, and given His Son to by our Kinsman Redeemer constitute His enabling us.

Yes, it is quite true that God does revive His people from their state of death as describe in Ephesians 2. The fact is that the "us" you refer to are those who believe in God through Jesus Christ. It excludes all of "them" who do not.

 

[Doug Brents]

Yes, it is quite true that God does revive His people from their state of death as describe in Ephesians 2. The fact is that the "us" you refer to are those who believe in God through Jesus Christ. It excludes all of "them" who do not.

To whom is the Gospel message sent? To the lost; the whole world, not just the saved. "Us" is all of humanity. Everyone is given the ability to seek God, and to find God, and to be saved. Why do we love God? Because He loved us first. Why do we seek God? Because He sought us first. Who did He seek? The LOST. To whom did Jesus come? To the sick, not the healthy.

 

[bbbbbbb]

To whom is the Gospel message sent? To the lost; the whole world, not just the saved. "Us" is all of humanity. Everyone is given the ability to seek God, and to find God, and to be saved. Why do we love God? Because He loved us first. Why do we seek God? Because He sought us first. Who did He seek? The LOST. To whom did Jesus come? To the sick, not the healthy.

Indeed, the gospel, at least in theory, is sent to the world. The reality, sadly, is that the vast majority of people now alive have no access to the gospel, nor will they, without any effort on their part to distance themselves from the gospel. Are these folks seeking God?

 

[David Lamb]

To whom is the Gospel message sent? To the lost; the whole world, not just the saved. "Us" is all of humanity. Everyone is given the ability to seek God, and to find God, and to be saved. Why do we love God? Because He loved us first. Why do we seek God? Because He sought us first. Who did He seek? The LOST. To whom did Jesus come? To the sick, not the healthy.

What you wrote is true, of course. But to whom was the Letter to the Ephesians written? The lost? No:

“Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:” (Eph 1:1 NKJV)

You can't take words addressed to saints and faithful in Christ, and apply them lock, stock and barrel to unsaved people.

 

[Doug Brents]

Indeed, the gospel, at least in theory, is sent to the world. The reality, sadly, is that the vast majority of people now alive have no access to the gospel, nor will they, without any effort on their part to distance themselves from the gospel. Are these folks seeking God?

They may be. But it is not seeking God that saves. It is obeying God that saves (Heb 5:9). The default position of man is condemnation. And the ONLY way back into communion with God is through Christ Jesus. Just because there are people who will never hear about Him doesn't mean that the Gospel was not sent to them. It just never arrived because the messenger (those of us in the Church today) never took it to them.

 

[Doug Brents]

What you wrote is true, of course. But to whom was the Letter to the Ephesians written? The lost? No:

“Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:” (Eph 1:1 NKJV)

You can't take words addressed to saints and faithful in Christ, and apply them lock, stock and barrel to unsaved people.

The Gospel was sent to all the World. Most of the letters from Paul are addressed to those who have already been saved. But quite a bit of those epistles looks back at the saved before they received salvation, and directs the saved to look at the lost and remember when they were in the same condition. One example is Rom 6:1 and following. Paul is talking to those who have already been saved, but looking back to when they received salvation, and directing them to take that message to the lost who also need to hear the Gospel, believe and obey it, (repent of their sins (from Acts 3:19)), confess Jesus as Lord, (and be baptized (Acts 2:38)). So yes, these letters are addressed to the saved, but have application to those who are not yet saved.

 

[David Lamb]

The Gospel was sent to all the World. Most of the letters from Paul are addressed to those who have already been saved. But quite a bit of those epistles looks back at the saved before they received salvation, and directs the saved to look at the lost and remember when they were in the same condition. One example is Rom 6:1 and following. Paul is talking to those who have already been saved, but looking back to when they received salvation, and directing them to take that message to the lost who also need to hear the Gospel, believe and obey it, (repent of their sins (from Acts 3:19)), confess Jesus as Lord, (and be baptized (Acts 2:38)). So yes, these letters are addressed to the saved, but have application to those who are not yet saved.

But the words in Ephesians 2:1 cannot possible refer to people who have not yet been saved:

“And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,” (Eph 2:1 NKJV)

God making them alive means they were now saved people.

 

[Brightfame52]

They may be. But it is not seeking God that saves. It is obeying God that saves (Heb 5:9). The default position of man is condemnation. And the ONLY way back into communion with God is through Christ Jesus. Just because there are people who will never hear about Him doesn't mean that the Gospel was not sent to them. It just never arrived because the messenger (those of us in the Church today) never took it to them.

Its Christs obeying that saves, not the sinners Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

He is the Author of our obedience, because of His Saving us by His obedience. In other words, the obeying ones is the result of Him being the author of their Salvation.

 

[Doug Brents]

But the words in Ephesians 2:1 cannot possible refer to people who have not yet been saved:

“And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,” (Eph 2:1 NKJV)

God making them alive means they were now saved people.

They are now. But they were not when they first heard the Gospel. They were dead in trespasses and sins when they first heard it, just like all those we are sent to take the Gospel to today (Matt 28:19).

Not every verse of every epistles can be applied to the unsaved; there are many that do only apply to those who have been saved already. But there are many that do have application back to those who have not yet been saved.

 

[David Lamb]

They are now. But they were not when they first heard the Gospel. They were dead in trespasses and sins when they first heard it, just like all those we are sent to take the Gospel to today (Matt 28:19).

Not every verse of every epistles can be applied to the unsaved; there are many that do only apply to those who have been saved already. But there are many that do have application back to those who have not yet been saved.

Yes, I think we agree that you can't be granted new life by God and still be unsaved.

 

[bbbbbbb]

They may be. But it is not seeking God that saves. It is obeying God that saves (Heb 5:9). The default position of man is condemnation. And the ONLY way back into communion with God is through Christ Jesus. Just because there are people who will never hear about Him doesn't mean that the Gospel was not sent to them. It just never arrived because the messenger (those of us in the Church today) never took it to them.

However, my question remains unanswered. I will rephrase it for you. Of all the billions of people who will never hear the gospel approximately how many do you suppose might be seeking God?

 

[Doug Brents]

However, my question remains unanswered. I will rephrase it for you. Of all the billions of people who will never hear the gospel approximately how many do you suppose might be seeking God?

Put that way, I would suppose, and this is just my own conjecture, that if a minister of the Word comes to a place to preach then someone there was seeking God and God responded by sending a minister. Not everyone there was seeking God, but someone was, and because that someone was seeking Him, many others will hear and potentially be saved as well.