Are Folks Making America Hate Again?

[FireDragon76]

It is a difficult balance between solidarity and being taken advantage of. Between generosity and being used.
Jesus calls us to self sacrifice and service but does that mean as a culture? As a nation?
Don't we need to care for ourselves first?

Boy, what a temptation that is. If someone would only validate it as "OK".
That is where we are now. WE elected a leader who validates self interest.
An important aspect of self interest is casting others as enemy.
The next step is dehumanizing rhetoric. We are there now also.

I think we have a warped sense of justice. How do we get it back.

The Christianity in America has mostly been a veneer for petty prejudices and banal fears, and I think that's really where the problem lies. Demagogues has always been more popular in the US than discipleship. It has been the case even before people laughed at Jimmy Carter wearing a sweater and suggesting to people they give up materialist and consumerist aspirations for a greater good. Instead, they elected a smooth-talking charismatic actor who hung out with not-so-petty crooks. The present regime is in the same mold, but on a grander scale.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Suppose for a minute that what you say is true, that, "The mainstream media doesn’t make any effort to stick to the truth." If that is true, how would you possibly know it?

By applying simple observation and common sense. When they report things like Biden having open boarders allowing immigrants to come over the boarder unvetted and yet there are thousands of immigrants camping out on the streets on the Mexican side of the boarder it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that if Biden was actually allowing them to cross the boarder unvetted then they wouldn’t be camped out on the Mexican side of the boarder waiting to be processed by USCIS. At no time were they allowed to just pack up their things and just walk across the boarder, they had to wait until they were processed before they were allowed to enter. Or when they report that Biden allowed immigrants who came into the country illegally to remain in the US while they applied for a green card when USCIS has been doing that for decades. I know people who did this back in the 80s and 90s, it’s nothing new. Or when they report that DOGE is stopping foreign aid programs that provides food and other resources to families and starving children when they haven’t actually stopped any food from being provided to anyone. They intentionally misrepresent the facts in order to promote their specific political agenda, just like so many people here on CF do every single day. Both sides do it and it’s not just the media, it’s the majority of people, both democratic and republican. It’s sad to see this happening on such a large scale here on a Christian forum where almost half of the threads are about politics and people distorting the facts to promote their particular party. They’re all to eager to believe whatever lies they’re told by the media because as long as they can quote a news source to back up their argument that’s all that matters. It doesn’t matter if what the media says is true or not they’ll believe it because they want to even if someone has presented evidence that proves the article wrong. They just ignore it and prey they never saw it.

 

[BCP1928]

Or when they report that DOGE is stopping foreign aid programs that provides food and other resources to families and starving children when they haven’t actually stopped any food from being provided to anyone.

How do you know that?

 

[stevil]

How do you know that?

I thought it was halting USAID that stopped USA providing food to starving children abroad.

Impact of Canceling USAID For Children in the Countries We Support - Thrive Global

Foreign aid is not just a diplomatic gesture. It plays a vital role in supporting the health, education, and nutrition of children in many low- and middle-income communities.

www.thrive-global.org

Key Facts:

• USAID funding cuts impact a child’s health, education, and nutrition
• Funding cuts have led to the suspension of many health services, income support for families, and school feeding programs.
• Cuts in school feeding programs contribute to higher rates of malnutrition among children.
• Foreign aid suspension increases the risk of school dropout, illness from unsafe water, and early marriage for girls.

It would be interesting to read anything that says this isn't true.

 

[doubtingmerle]

when they report that DOGE is stopping foreign aid programs that provides food and other resources to families and starving children when they haven’t actually stopped any food from being provided to anyone.

You have made zero effort to prove your claim that, "The mainstream media doesn’t make any effort to stick to the truth." Zero.

Since you make no effort at all to verify your claim, I will assume you know your claim is groundless.

You turn to a different claim, the claim that media has sometimes said something wrong. Of course. We are all human. We all make mistakes. But there is a big difference between making mistakes and not making any effort to stick to the truth.

Regarding your claim that the cutback at USAID did not affect starving children, you have shown no evidence. You simply state it as fact. You have been shown multiple links that verify that this happened.

 

[MrMoe]

Your pickup truck is breaking down, and you cannot afford a new one. Good jobs are hard to find, and prices keep going up. You fear you might not be able to keep your God. Times are tough. I get it.

In frustration, you look for people to blame, and you find no shortage of possibilities. You could blame DEI recipients, transgenders, or Democrats, for instance. And then along comes a presidential candidate who speaks out against all the people you blame. True, some of those people being hated could include your friends or even yourself, but largely the message resonates with you. Yes, you have been told this candidate should never be President again, but then again, you hear this candidate is blaming the people you blame. You like that. And so, you vote for him.

Can you provide some examples to prove your claim that people are hating on certain groups because “times are tough”?
Better yet, provide some statistics if you can, to see if this is a significant problem.

But have you turned to hatred, rather than resolving the problems?

Here are some of the groups being hated:

Do you differentiate hate with anger and frustration, or do they mean the same thing to you?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Can you provide some examples to prove your claim that people are hating on certain groups because “times are tough”?
Better yet, provide some statistics if you can, to see if this is a significant problem.

Good question. What I see is hatred for many groups as I listed in the opening post. What causes that hatred? I don't know. Yes, I do think a lot of it is fueled by people who are experiencing tough times and in frustration turn in anger and hatred to other people.

I believe my "claim" in the opening post was more of a question than a statement of fact. What I said was, "Have you turned to hatred, rather than resolving the problems?"

Do you differentiate hate with anger and frustration, or do they mean the same thing to you?

Another good question.

I go on to say, "Here are some of the groups being hated," and I go down the list. I agree that, in most cases, the issue is more anger and frustration rather than hatred, but in other cases I think it is actual hatred.

It is so easy for me to see that "Make America Great Again" for some people really means "Make America Hate Again" as some people use the movement to condone hatred of minorities, immigrants, women, foreigners, etc. But yes, "hate" is a loaded term, and for most MAGA voters, the term does not apply.

"Make America Divided into Groups that Blame Others with Some People Hating Again," might be a more accurate negative caricature of the movement in general, but it doesn't have the conciseness of "Make America Hate Again."

 

[doubtingmerle]

Do you differentiate hate with anger and frustration, or do they mean the same thing to you?

Here is an example from today's news of an act that seems to be motivated more by hate than a frustrated attempt to make things right.

Arrest of Judge.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Good question. What I see is hatred for many groups as I listed in the opening post. What causes that hatred? I don't know. Yes, I do think a lot of it is fueled by people who are experiencing tough times and in frustration turn in anger and hatred to other people.

I believe my "claim" in the opening post was more of a question than a statement of fact. What I said was, "Have you turned to hatred, rather than resolving the problems?"



Another good question.

I go on to say, "Here are some of the groups being hated," and I go down the list. I agree that, in most cases, the issue is more anger and frustration rather than hatred, but in other cases I think it is actual hatred.

It is so easy for me to see that "Make America Great Again" for some people really means "Make America Hate Again" as some people use the movement to condone hatred of minorities, immigrants, women, foreigners, etc. But yes, "hate" is a loaded term, and for most MAGA voters, the term does not apply.

"Make America Divided into Groups that Blame Others with Some People Hating Again," might be a more accurate negative caricature of the movement in general, but it doesn't have the conciseness of "Make America Hate Again."

When I hear the good Republican MAGA people of Fremont Michigan complain about the Hispanics taking the jobs, I usually reply that I didn't know they worked in the Onion field.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Domestic terrorism, nothing to see here:

Per the ADL:

Over the past decade, right-wing extremists have committed the majority of extremist-related killings in all years but one--2016...Of the 443 people killed at the hands of extremists over that 10-year period, 333 (or 75%) were killed by right-wing extremists. (source)​

 

[Lukaris]

Per the ADL:

Over the past decade, right-wing extremists have committed the majority of extremist-related killings in all years but one--2016...Of the 443 people killed at the hands of extremists over that 10-year period, 333 (or 75%) were killed by right-wing extremists. (source)​

I gave examples of terrorism across the board and a desire to control it with law and order. I did this as a conservative in reaction to the rigged left wing bias of the thread in general.

Failure to maintain law and order domestically and on the border perpetuates crime on both sides of the border.

Drug cartel cases in Chicago play disturbing role in surge of Mexico murders after both of El Chapo's sons arrested | abc7chicago.com

Drug%20cartel%20cases%20in%20Chicago%20have%20been%20playing%20a%20disturbing%20role%20in%20the%20surge%20of%20Mexico%20murders%20after%20both%20of%20El%20Chapo's%20sons%20were%20arrested.

abc7chicago.com

 

[doubtingmerle]

I gave examples of terrorism across the board and a desire to control it with law and order. I did this as a conservative in reaction to the rigged left wing bias of the thread in general.

Failure to maintain law and order domestically and on the border perpetuates crime on both sides of the border.

Crime exists. I agree.

Law and order good. Crime bad. I agree.

The point of this thread was to discuss extreme anger and hate in the conservative movement, which I see as a different but very serious problem.

 

[FireDragon76]

By applying simple observation and common sense. When they report things like Biden having open boarders allowing immigrants to come over the boarder unvetted and yet there are thousands of immigrants camping out on the streets on the Mexican side of the boarder it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that if Biden was actually allowing them to cross the boarder unvetted then they wouldn’t be camped out on the Mexican side of the boarder waiting to be processed by USCIS. At no time were they allowed to just pack up their things and just walk across the boarder, they had to wait until they were processed before they were allowed to enter. Or when they report that Biden allowed immigrants who came into the country illegally to remain in the US while they applied for a green card when USCIS has been doing that for decades. I know people who did this back in the 80s and 90s, it’s nothing new. Or when they report that DOGE is stopping foreign aid programs that provides food and other resources to families and starving children when they haven’t actually stopped any food from being provided to anyone.

That's not a myth. DOGE cuts have already impacted Second Harvest, as a result our church's food pantry is struggling to have enough food.

 

[Lukaris]

Crime exists. I agree.

Law and order good. Crime bad. I agree.

The point of this thread was to discuss extreme anger and hate in the conservative movement, which I see as a different but very serious problem.

I gave examples of some groups that were victims of violence that you seem to assume conservatives hate to begin with.

If i am a Christian, I understand lgbt etc. as sin yet I am also a sinner ( Romans 3:23) and I trust in our Savior for salvation from sin in general ( Ephesians 2:8-10). I don’t judge individuals ( Matthew 7:1-12), pray & hope for anyone’s salvation ( 1 Timothy 2:1-6, Matthew 9:36-38 etc.) & understand the fear of the Lord & keeping the commandments (Psalm 19:8-9,Psalm 19:1-14, Romans 1:17-32, Romans 13:8-10 etc.),

 

[FireDragon76]

Crime exists. I agree.

Law and order good. Crime bad. I agree.

The point of this thread was to discuss extreme anger and hate in the conservative movement, which I see as a different but very serious problem.

"Law and order" is often used as a fig leaf over repression and advocating for unjust, oppressive, and even violent social hierarchies.

I value the biblical ethic of shalom, a just peace.

 

[stevil]

"a just peace"

That term scares me no end.

I want a country where people can make their own choices unless those choices then harm others.
I want a country where the government is limited to taking care of society, making sure it is safe, stable and thriving, but no more. I don't want a government deciding for the people what is moral or ethical, I don't want a government dictating lifestyles and lifestyle choices.
I don't want a government pushing their version of any religion.

I want media that reports on the goings on of government, the good and the bad. I want a governing party with the power to remove their leader should they deem the leader unfit or unethical or undesirable as a leader of the country and their party. I don't want a prime minister or president with unilateral power for Executive Orders or for Pardons. I don't want a prime minister or president with immunity from the law.

 

[doubtingmerle]

I gave examples of some groups that were victims of violence that you seem to assume conservatives hate to begin with.

Is there an interpreter in the house that understands what Lukaris is trying to say and can interpret it into English, please?

Lukaris, your writings are very cryptic. I have been trying to guess what you are saying, but we don't seem to be connecting at all. If we can't understand each other, we are wasting our time being here.

Let me guess again at one other possible thing a person that says these words might be meaning, "Mexican immigrants are murderers and rapists and we are their victims. So, we need to get them out of the country. That is not hatred. It is self-defense." Maybe you are not saying that, but I will still take the time to respond to anybody who might be saying that.

First, as I have said several times, I am opposed to crime. If a person commits a crime, then the courts should deal with that person while using due process to assure that the person is not punished unjustly. I have repeated this several times, and you still don't appear to be acknowledging that I am against crime.

So, if you wish to write to me again, can you please acknowledge that I am against crime? If you cannot acknowledge that one basic thing that I have written repeatedly, then I cannot take your efforts seriously, and I am wasting my time continuing this discussion.

I do not have an issue with people that are angry at immigrants that commit crime, as long as they agree in using due process when dealing with criminals. What I do have an issue is with the inappropriate calls for mass deportation, which casts a net over not only violent criminals, but productive people who are here illegally, productive non-citizens here legally, and productive citizens. The common core of all that call for mass deportation appears to be the nationality and race of those for whom mass deportation is being requested.

It doesn't appear that the Trump administration is deporting at a much faster rate than Biden did. The big difference is the way people are being deported. They are picked up without due process. Many were shipped to third world prisons. We are told they cannot be left out of prison.

If i am a Christian, I understand lgbt etc. as sin yet I am also a sinner

I don't know about you, but people that say such things often treat people that are LGBTQ+ in ways that can be described as hatred. Do you or do you not think it is OK for people to treat the LGBTQ+ community in ways that is generally considered as hatred? Yes or no, please.

 

[FireDragon76]

That term scares me no end.

That's very unfortunate, but my message wasn't primarily aimed at you. It was aimed at Christians that believe in a kind of "peace" imposed on others, regardless of justice or care about human rights. That isn't compatible with my understanding of my own faith.

 

[stevil]

Let me guess again at one other possible thing a person that says these words might be meaning, "Mexican immigrants are murderers and rapists and we are their victims. So, we need to get them out of the country. That is not hatred. It is self-defense."

I would assume that most Mexican immigrants are peaceful and law abiding.
But with any group of people, including USA people, some people are violent and tend towards criminal behaviour.
As I understand it, immigrants, especially undocumented immigrants to the USA are less likely to be violent or criminal that the USA citizens, but of course with any group of people, some are likely to be violent, so while the vast majority of Mexican immigrants are peaceful and law abiding, there will likely be some rotten eggs too, because Mexicans are people and in any group of people there are some minority of rotten eggs.

But since Mexican immigrants are more likely to be law abiding and peaceful than USA people, USA is better off having Mexican immigrants than not.

 

[stevil]

That's very unfortunate, but my message wasn't primarily aimed at you. It was aimed at Christians that believe in a kind of "peace" imposed on others, regardless of justice or care about human rights. That isn't compatible with my understanding of my own faith.

When it comes to wanting peace, you do no favours by colouring it as "a just peace".
Whose definition of "just peace"? That's the scary part. Why not just aim for peace?