Are Folks Making America Hate Again?

[BCP1928]

When it comes to wanting peace, you do no favours by colouring it as "a just peace".
Whose definition of "just peace"? That's the scary part. Why not just aim for peace?

Sure why not? There would be peace in Ukraine if we could just convince the Ukrainians to surrender, peace in Gaza if the Palestinans would allow themselves to be exterminated.

 

[FireDragon76]

When it comes to wanting peace, you do no favours by colouring it as "a just peace".

In your opinion.

Whose definition of "just peace"? That's the scary part. Why not just aim for peace?

It's not scary at all. It means a peace that recognizes the rights of everyone, not just the powerful or privileged.

 

[stevil]

In your opinion.



It's not scary at all. It means a peace that recognizes the rights of everyone, not just the powerful or privileged.

Or perhaps it means a Christian flavour of "just peace" and may mean that everyone is forced into Christian morals and/or practices.

 

[stevil]

Sure why not? There would be peace in Ukraine if we could just convince the Ukrainians to surrender

That's what Trump was going for.
"just peace" for him means a peace deal where Trump himself gets the credit for.
He was wanting to pull aide from Ukraine to starve them of the ability to fight for their own self defence.

, peace in Gaza if the Palestinans would allow themselves to be exterminated.

Again, what Trump is going for. He wants to ship out the Palastinians and create some sort of resort for USA and Israel people to pay him to visit. For him this would be "just"

 

[FireDragon76]

That's what Trump was going for.
"just peace" for him means a peace deal where Trump himself gets the credit for.
He was wanting to pull aide from Ukraine to starve them of the ability to fight for their own self defence.

Again, what Trump is going for. He wants to ship out the Palastinians and create some sort of resort for USA and Israel people to pay him to visit. For him this would be "just"

I'm not a postmodern relativist... are you implying that morals are relative? I may disagree with Christian fundamentalists or evangelicals, but I believe human rights are grounded in human dignity. Which means that shipping the people of Gaza off wouldn't be just. Justice isn't doing whatever you want to other people, but doing what is right according to respecting other peoples dignity.

 

[stevil]

I'm not a postmodern relativist... are you implying that morals are relative?

Morals are completely made up.
Every person on the planet has their own version of morals. There are 8 billion versions of morality.
For a fundy Christian "Just peace" may mean no divorce, no gay marriage, no praying to "false" gods, no disbelief in the Christian god.
Along those lines it may be "just" to lock up gay people, or to either lockup or deport Muslims.

For Trump "just" means, people are loyal to him, and doing things to adore him, polish his ego, give him power and enrich him.

I may disagree with Christian fundamentalists or evangelicals, but I believe human rights are grounded in human dignity. Which means that shipping the people of Gaza off wouldn't be just. Justice isn't doing whatever you want to other people, but doing what is right according to respecting other peoples dignity.

Yes, so when you say "Just peace" it is a scary word and needs to be further elaborated upon in order for others to know what you mean by "just".
For others it may give them the power to lock people up for not being Christian enough, or for opposing the power of Trump (like being a political opponent running for office against Trump) etc.

 

[Lukaris]

Is there an interpreter in the house that understands what Lukaris is trying to say and can interpret it into English, please?

Lukaris, your writings are very cryptic. I have been trying to guess what you are saying, but we don't seem to be connecting at all. If we can't understand each other, we are wasting our time being here.

Let me guess again at one other possible thing a person that says these words might be meaning, "Mexican immigrants are murderers and rapists and we are their victims. So, we need to get them out of the country. That is not hatred. It is self-defense." Maybe you are not saying that, but I will still take the time to respond to anybody who might be saying that.

First, as I have said several times, I am opposed to crime. If a person commits a crime, then the courts should deal with that person while using due process to assure that the person is not punished unjustly. I have repeated this several times, and you still don't appear to be acknowledging that I am against crime.

So, if you wish to write to me again, can you please acknowledge that I am against crime? If you cannot acknowledge that one basic thing that I have written repeatedly, then I cannot take your efforts seriously, and I am wasting my time continuing this discussion.

I do not have an issue with people that are angry at immigrants that commit crime, as long as they agree in using due process when dealing with criminals. What I do have an issue is with the inappropriate calls for mass deportation, which casts a net over not only violent criminals, but productive people who are here illegally, productive non-citizens here legally, and productive citizens. The common core of all that call for mass deportation appears to be the nationality and race of those for whom mass deportation is being requested.

It doesn't appear that the Trump administration is deporting at a much faster rate than Biden did. The big difference is the way people are being deported. They are picked up without due process. Many were shipped to third world prisons. We are told they cannot be left out of prison.



I don't know about you, but people that say such things often treat people that are LGBTQ+ in ways that can be described as hatred. Do you or do you not think it is OK for people to treat the LGBTQ+ community in ways that is generally considered as hatred? Yes or no, please.

I don’t know what is so cryptic in what I am saying especially in light of what you can’t seem to understand? Especially in the LGBTQ thing, I gave an example of the Pulse Nightclub shooting which was inspired by some radical form of Islam. I obviously disturbed that anyone is being murdered whatever their lifestyle, beliefs etc. are. I have referenced the golden rule ( Matthew 7:12) which clearly states that any sane person should want mutual respect between people in general. I pointed out that lgbtq is Biblically sinful although I don’t judge individuals per se ( Matthew 7:1) & would violate the golden rule ( Matthew 7:12 & everything indicated in Matthew 7:1-12 etc.) otherwise. I have shown that I should at least try to be true to my school in human relations, be law abiding ( Romans 13:1-14), but I cannot be true to my faith if I say God tolerates sin ( Romans 1:18-32 etc,). Given that Islam does not have a long history in America and the number of domestic terrorist incidents from radical Islam in America, I would wonder whether you consider this is right or left wing terrorism?

No, I don’t have anything against Moslem individuals either. My paternal ancestors emigrated to the US in the 19th c because of anti Christian violence in the Middle East ( when the religious demographics were actually more diverse). Events like this where largely unarmed Christians faced armed violence. The social factors in all of this were complex just like in America today. A convert from Islam in our parish still has to take care even in America because conversion to religions of “People of the Book” ( the Bible) is usually not accepted.

1860 civil conflict in Mount Lebanon and Damascus - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Aryeh Jay]

A just peace, The US gets the minerals, Russia gets the land, Ukrainians get to live. (As Russians)

 

[Oompa Loompa]

DEI Recipients

DEI is soft racism.

Foreign Countries: There seems to be no end of the vitriol against China.

Although the Chinese people should be given compassion, the CCP is our adversary. They should stop stealing our intellectual property and being aggressive to their neighbors in their conquest of the the neighboring waters and the world.

Environmentalists

They should stop vandalizing works of art and gluing themselves to the road. It is giving people an excuse to hate them.

Government Workers:

Not all federal workers are deep state sabatures and political activists working behind the scenes to undermine the president, but they do exist and they need to go.

The needy

The needy vs the greedy. There are too many people taking advantage of the welfare system and the "needy" has become progressively worse since LBJ's war on poverty.

 

[stevil]

A just peace, The US gets the minerals, Russia gets the land, Ukrainians get to live. (As Russians)

Psst, don't tell Trump, but once Ukraine becomes part of Russia, the contract between USA and Ukraine for the Ukraine minerals will be null and void and Russia will get everything.

 

[stevil]

The needy vs the greedy. There are too many people taking advantage of the welfare system and the "needy" has become progressively worse since LBJ's war on poverty.

Well thankfully the greedy are in office right now, taking benefits away from the needy and giving them instead to the greedy.
Gotta love Doge and the Tax cuts.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Well thankfully the greedy are in office right now, taking benefits away from the needy and giving them instead to the greedy.
Gotta love Doge and the Tax cuts.

Yes. Thankfully.

 

[FireDragon76]

Morals are completely made up.
Every person on the planet has their own version of morals. There are 8 billion versions of morality.
For a fundy Christian "Just peace" may mean no divorce, no gay marriage, no praying to "false" gods, no disbelief in the Christian god.

"Fundy Christians" don't use the term "just peace" at all.

Along those lines it may be "just" to lock up gay people, or to either lockup or deport Muslims.

For Trump "just" means, people are loyal to him, and doing things to adore him, polish his ego, give him power and enrich him.

Trump never uses the term "just". Neither do people around him. Their logic is "I do this because I can". That's not justice, by any reasonable definition.

 

[MrMoe]

Good question. What I see is hatred for many groups as I listed in the opening post. What causes that hatred? I don't know. Yes, I do think a lot of it is fueled by people who are experiencing tough times and in frustration turn in anger and hatred to other people.

I believe my "claim" in the opening post was more of a question than a statement of fact. What I said was, "Have you turned to hatred, rather than resolving the problems?"



Another good question.

I go on to say, "Here are some of the groups being hated," and I go down the list. I agree that, in most cases, the issue is more anger and frustration rather than hatred, but in other cases I think it is actual hatred.

It is so easy for me to see that "Make America Great Again" for some people really means "Make America Hate Again" as some people use the movement to condone hatred of minorities, immigrants, women, foreigners, etc. But yes, "hate" is a loaded term, and for most MAGA voters, the term does not apply.

"Make America Divided into Groups that Blame Others with Some People Hating Again," might be a more accurate negative caricature of the movement in general, but it doesn't have the conciseness of "Make America Hate Again."

So this is based on your own personal perception rather than any proof. Personally it doesn’t make much sense to me for someone to hate on groups with no relation to them or their personal struggles. Why would someone hate on the LGBT just because times are tough for them? Maybe a good question to ask yourself would be if what you’re seeing is actually hate.

 

[MrMoe]

Here is an example from today's news of an act that seems to be motivated more by hate than a frustrated attempt to make things right.

Arrest of Judge.

Who were the ones being hateful? The ICE agents? I thought they were just doing their jobs.

Also concerning that you use MSNBC and Rachel Maddox as a source of news.