Tom Homan Fires Back at Pope Francis for Calling Mass Deportations a ‘Disgrace’

[RileyG]

There are Catholics who wish Pope Benedict was still Pope. Pope Francis is failing, but since he has changed the composition of the College of Cardinals to compassionate, environmentally conscious, inclusive progressives they will see a new Pope who is more like the current one.

Look at a lot of progressive (Catholic) religious communities. Many of their members are in their 80s+ and are closing because of lack of vocations. Many are forced to close or merge.
Progressive liberalism has NEVER helped the Church.

 

[RileyG]

The Pope is only infallible when speaking ex cathedra within the council of Bishops.

The Pope is not infallible when just giving an opinion.

A lot of people seem to misunderstand that. Literally, the ONLY time the Pope EVER spoke ex-cathedra from the chair was in 1950 by Pope Pius XII when he declared The Assumption as a dogma.
Speaking ex-cathedra- from the chair- is incredibly, incredibly rare.

 

[jas3]

A lot of people seem to misunderstand that. Literally, the ONLY time the Pope EVER spoke ex-cathedra from the chair was in 1950 by Pope Pius XII when he declared The Assumption as a dogma.
Speaking ex-cathedra- from the chair- is incredibly, incredibly rare.

I've heard estimates as low as twice (those being the definition of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption) but I've never heard it claimed that an ex cathedra statement has only been made once. On the other end of the spectrum, I've heard an estimate, I believe from Dr. Alan Fimister, that there have been hundreds of ex cathedra statements throughout history. His reasoning was that part of the thesis of Vatican I was that it wasn't defining something new. I think Bishop Gasser made a similar point in his Relatio, but it's been long enough since I've read it that I dont remember.

Either way, of course, papal infallibility doesn't apply to Pope Francis' statements on border policy.

 

[RileyG]

I've heard estimates as low as twice (those being the definition of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption) but I've never heard it claimed that an ex cathedra statement has only been made once. On the other end of the spectrum, I've heard an estimate, I believe from Dr. Alan Fimister, that there have been hundreds of ex cathedra statements throughout history. His reasoning was that part of the thesis of Vatican I was that it wasn't defining something new. I think Bishop Gasser made a similar point in his Relatio, but it's been long enough since I've read it that I dont remember.

Either way, of course, papal infallibility doesn't apply to Pope Francis' statements on border policy.

Maybe I should have clarified. SINCE it was defined in Vatican I. Immaculate Conception was defined BEFORE Vatican I.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Look at a lot of progressive (Catholic) religious communities. Many of their members are in their 80s+ and are closing because of lack of vocations. Many are forced to close or merge.
Progressive liberalism has NEVER helped the Church.

The progressive religious communities are facing extinction. Kind of like the progressive Protestant denominations. Another pope like pope Francis and Catholics can ask if the whole Church will go extinct.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Look at a lot of progressive (Catholic) religious communities. Many of their members are in their 80s+ and are closing because of lack of vocations. Many are forced to close or merge.
Progressive liberalism has NEVER helped the Church.

Terms like progressive Catholic, conservative Catholic, conservative Christian, and liberal Christian are misleading and political, having no place in Christianity.

Ultimately, the fundamental question is whether we, as Christians, follow the Word of God or not. For Catholics or Orthodox Christians, there may also be additional texts and traditions outside the Bible that are followed. However, the core issue remains obey these these sacred texts.

For Christians, showing mercy to a foreigner who has violated government law is not about progressivism or conservatism; the question is what Jesus says about this issue. Unfortunately, today we often answer these questions from a political perspective.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

A lot of people seem to misunderstand that. Literally, the ONLY time the Pope EVER spoke ex-cathedra from the chair was in 1950 by Pope Pius XII when he declared The Assumption as a dogma.
Speaking ex-cathedra- from the chair- is incredibly, incredibly rare.

Also in 1854 when the Pope declared the Immaculate Conception.

Four years later in 1858, the Blessed Mother appeared to St Bernadette and said she
was the Immaculate Conception.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Terms like progressive Catholic, conservative Catholic, conservative Christian, and liberal Christian are misleading and political, having no place in Christianity.

Ultimately, the fundamental question is whether we, as Christians, follow the Word of God or not. For Catholics or Orthodox Christians, there may also be additional texts and traditions outside the Bible that are followed. However, the core issue remains obey these these sacred texts.

For Christians, showing mercy to a foreigner who has violated government law is not about progressivism or conservatism; the question is what Jesus says about this issue. Unfortunately, today we often answer these questions from a political perspective.

OK. Maybe you are right. Do we follow the Word of God or not. Do we follow the Word of God and think abortion is AOK, or do we follow the Word of God and think abortion kills a human being? What do we call those Christians who think abortion is AOK? What do we call those Christians that think abortion kills a human being? Same for the LGBT issue. Same for the illegal entrants to a country. You don't like 'progressive' as a label. How do you then make sense of the difference between two different orders of nuns, one where the novitiate is overflowing with young women wanting to join and the other that has an average age of 80+ and hasn't had a new member in five or ten years? Which group would be the more racially diverse? Which group would act like they are politically progressive? Which group would follow the Word of God? If that's too 'Catholic' for you maybe you could compare the various kinds of Lutherans, or some other groups more familiar to you. Why are some congregations tiny and old while others are large and young? What's going on?

 

[Truth7t7]

Terms like progressive Catholic, conservative Catholic, conservative Christian, and liberal Christian are misleading and political, having no place in Christianity.

Of course the words "progressive liberal" has its place in Christian circles, the words apply to many who believe that Christianity and woke liberalism are compatible, it's that simple and will continue to be used exposing the evil apostasy in the Church

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Of course the words "progressive liberal" has its place in Christian circles, the words apply to many who believe that Christianity and woke liberalism are compatible, it's that simple and will continue to be used exposing the evil apostasy in the Church

"Progressive liberal" and "woke" are political terms unrelated to Christianity.

As Christians, we follow the teachings of the Bible. Additionally, individuals who are Catholic or Orthodox Christians incorporate sacred texts and traditions specific to their denominations.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Of course the words "progressive liberal" has its place in Christian circles, the words apply to many who believe that Christianity and woke liberalism are compatible, it's that simple and will continue to be used exposing the evil apostasy in the Church

Do some Christians self-identify as 'progressive' or as 'liberal' or as 'progressive liberals'? I think so. What do they mean when they say that? Is it just their political persuasion overwhelming their faith? If someone objects to the 'progressive' label what better way of classification is there?

I wish we had just plain Christians. Followers of the Word of God. But we don't have just that. We have some kinds of Christians that are going extinct while others are thriving. I used the example of various kinds of religious sisters. The Nashville Dominicans have a real serious problem with too many novices crowding their novitiate. They add on to the novitiate to handle more novices and then even more want to join. Then there are the other kind of sisters who have given up on ever getting a novice. What are the differences that result in one group thriving and the other one dying? The Nashville Dominicans require a habit for one thing. There is of course way more than that.

 

[Truth7t7]

As Christians, we follow the teachings of the Bible. Additionally, individuals who are Catholic or Orthodox Christians incorporate sacred texts and traditions specific to their denominations.

Roman Catholicism and The Orthodox hold many traditions that are non-biblical, I will mention a few and spare myself from going into great detail

Many of these can also be found in many circles in professing Christianity

1.) "Easter", this is a tradition of men found in the "fertility rites of paganism" that predates the birth of Jesus and the cross of calvary

2.) "Christmas" birth of Jesus, this is a tradition of men found in paganism's celebrating the winter solstice and rebirth of the sun, it also predates the birth of Jesus Christ and the cross of calvary

Colossians 2:8KJV
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

 

[chevyontheriver]

"Progressive liberal" and "woke" are political terms unrelated to Christianity.

Why do some people call themselves progressive Christians? Or liberal Christians? It isn't other people labeling them that, but they themselves labeling themselves that.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Roman Catholicism and The Orthodox hold many traditions that are non-biblical, I will .ention a few and spare myself from going into great detail.

Thank you for sparing all of us from a repetition of this well worn drivel, quite off topic anyway.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Why do some people call themselves progressive Christians? Or liberal Christians? It isn't other people labeling them that, but they themselves labeling themselves that.

The terms "progressive Christian" and "conservative Christian" are both incorrect. Both sides identify this way. They seem more eager to display their political ideology than their savior, Jesus Christ.

My point is that as Christians, we should identify as followers of Jesus Christ, rather than basing our identity on secular aspects. We should aim to influence politics with our faith, rather than being influenced by political ideologies.

Unfortunately, today many self-identified progressive Christians seem to be swayed by progressive ideologies. For instance, as you mentioned in another post, why do some Christians consider abortion acceptable? It shouldn't be; abortion is considered murder and a sin regardless of perspective. However, some Christians now believe it is permissible due to their political beliefs.

Similarly, conservative Christians can also be influenced by politics. Some believe that showing mercy to undocumented individuals is unbiblical or that the death penalty is biblically justified. Both progressive and conservative Christians are often equally influenced by their political affiliations.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

OK. Maybe you are right. Do we follow the Word of God or not. Do we follow the Word of God and think abortion is AOK, or do we follow the Word of God and think abortion kills a human being? What do we call those Christians who think abortion is AOK? What do we call those Christians that think abortion kills a human being? Same for the LGBT issue. Same for the illegal entrants to a country. You don't like 'progressive' as a label. How do you then make sense of the difference between two different orders of nuns, one where the novitiate is overflowing with young women wanting to join and the other that has an average age of 80+ and hasn't had a new member in five or ten years? Which group would be the more racially diverse? Which group would act like they are politically progressive? Which group would follow the Word of God? If that's too 'Catholic' for you maybe you could compare the various kinds of Lutherans, or some other groups more familiar to you. Why are some congregations tiny and old while others are large and young? What's going on?

The decline in attendance at Catholic churches has been impacted by child abuse cases that were concealed by the Church for a century. The influence of progressivism on this trend is minimal.

 

[Truth7t7]

The terms "progressive Christian" and "conservative Christian" are both incorrect. Both sides identify this way. They seem more eager to display their political ideology than their savior, Jesus Christ.

My point is that as Christians, we should identify as followers of Jesus Christ, rather than basing our identity on secular aspects. We should aim to influence politics with our faith, rather than being influenced by political ideologies.

Unfortunately, today many self-identified progressive Christians seem to be swayed by progressive ideologies. For instance, as you mentioned in another post, why do some Christians consider abortion acceptable? It shouldn't be; abortion is considered murder and a sin regardless of perspective. However, some Christians now believe it is permissible due to their political beliefs.

Similarly, conservative Christians can also be influenced by politics. Some believe that showing mercy to undocumented individuals is unbiblical or that the death penalty is biblically justified. Both progressive and conservative Christians are often equally influenced by their political affiliations.

Progressive liberal will be continued to be used in Christian circles its not going away, many conservative Christians question the validity of those progressive liberals that claim that their part of the Lord's Church on earth, a major reason the term is used

Ye shall know them by their fruits!

Matthew 7:15-18KJV
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Progressive liberal will be continued to be used in Christian circles its not going away, many conservative Christians question the validity of those progressive liberals that claim that their part of the Lord's Church on earth, a major reason the term is used

Ye shall know them by their fruits!

Matthew 7:15-18KJV
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Same Bible verses can be applied to the so-called conservative Christians.

My point is straightforward: the terms "progressivism," "liberalism," and "conservatism" pertain to politics and not to the Bible. Individuals who identify with these ideologies are advocating their political beliefs rather than their religious faith. It appears that you perceive progressive Christians are bad while viewing conservative Christians as good. In my opinion, they are equal; both groups are attempting to advance their political ideology rather than their faith.

 

[Truth7t7]

It appears that you perceive progressive Christians are bad while viewing conservative Christians as good. In my opinion, they are equal;

In my opinion and that of many others is that progressive liberals proclaiming to be Christians might not be in the Church on earth

Progressive Liberalism supports women behind pulpits Feminism, condones same sex marriage in homosexuality, condones transgenderism and the woke agenda, on and on (Bad)

Conservatism opposes that mentioned above (Good)

They aren't equal as you claim, and the progressive liberal issues mentioned above pertain to direct biblical teachings

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

In my opinion and that of many others is that progressive liberals proclaiming to be Christians might not be in the Church on earth

Progressive Liberalism supports women behind pulpits Feminism, condones same sex marriage in homosexuality, condones transgenderism and the woke agenda, on and on (Bad)

Conservatism opposes that mentioned above (Good)

They aren't equal as you claim, and the progressive liberal issues mentioned above pertain to direct biblical teachings

I too think women behind pulpits, condones same sex marriage in homosexuality, condones transgenderism are unbiblical. I have no idea what is “woke agenda”.

But Bible has lot more to say apart from these few things above. And just because some one don’t support women behind pulpits, condones same sex marriage in homosexuality, condones transgenderism doesn’t make them “good Christian”.


Matthew 7:22-27 “22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”