B Griffin
Well-Known Member
Now you're promoting sinless perfection?You're not getting it. Those who say they can sin and still be saved are no different than unbelievers who justify sin and claim to believe in God.
Ok now there is a crack in your doctrine. So sinning is ok as long as it is confessed and forsaken? How many times in a person's life can he commit a particular sin, confess it and forsake it and still be saved? Two times at most (one for initial salvation and the other one a second chance)? How long would it take the typical person to run out of second chances?This describes any believer who rejects Conditional Salvation or the view that sin can separate us from God (unless one confesses and forsakes their sin).
Good example. Adultery is committed in the heart before it is acted upon physically (with the eyes or any other body part). How many times can a person have lust in their heart, confess it, and forsake it and still be saved? Once or twice? More than that it's a habbit, right?1 Timothy 5:8 says if you do not provide for your own you have denied the faith, and are worse than an infidel (unbeliever). ONLY a believer can be worse than an unbeliever! So this is not talking about some kind of false believer pretending to be a believer. Jesus warned against how looking upon a woman in lust can cause one to be cast bodily into hellfire (Matthew 5:28-30). This is not possible according to popular Christianity.
Are you putting yourself in this category since you think you can sin and be saved as long as you confess it and forsake it?Concerning Matthew 15:19-20:
Notice the word "defile" in the passage.
1 Timothy 1:10 (KJV)
"For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons,and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"
1 Timothy 1:18-19 (KJV)
18 "This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou bythem mightest war a good warfare;
19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:"
So those who defile themselves (who believe they can sin and be saved)
This would be fine if you fought a good fight and held onto faith with a good conscience as long as you don't fail at it. But if you fail at it, forgiveness is the only thing that can save you from damnation.are not waging a good warfare and holding on to faith with a good conscience.
Yes it is. Obedience to the law only counts in your favor if you are obedient without fail. When you fail, you need forgiveness.This is not true.
So you have the answer... a person loses his salvation when he sins but can gain it back if he confesses it and forsakes it. I am sure there are many people with this belief that need to be saved multiple times every year. Anecdotally, I heard a famous preacher from Texas say he once went as many as 3 days without committing a single sin. Even then, I'd day 1 sin every 3 days over a lifetime constitutes habitual sin, even if it is follwed with confession and repentence every time.I have heard those who believe as you do say they sin all the time or they cannot help but to sin or they use 1 John 1:8 as an excuse that they must sin again at some point again (and yet they no doubt will claim they are saved even while they will sin again).
But saying sin is ok as long as it is followed by confession and repentance is almost the same thing. The only difference is salvation was interrupted for a short time and restoration was earned by good behavior.Even if you lived liked a saint, if you believe even one sin can be justified (i.e., meaning you can sin and still be saved), then that is turning God's grace into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4).
Correct. Murder is committed in the heart before it is acted upon physically (with the mouth or any other body part). One sin and you're out. But, let's don't just include murder and adultery. Let's also include loving God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself. Any breach whatsoever of these two greatest of all commandments would cause a person to lose his salvation. How many times can a person confess and repent for breaking these commandments and regain his salvation?Remember, it only took one sin for the fall to happen. It only takes one sin of murder to happen in order to be considered a murderer, etcetera.
Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’" (Mt 22:37–38)
But it is not if it is followed by confession and repentance?In other words, the problem is in rejecting the Word of God on the teaching of sin and salvation as God has described in His Word that is the real problem. Saying one can sin and be saved on any level is turning God’s grace into a license for immorality.
Meaning salvation is lost upon committing one sin but can be gained back with confession and repentance? I don't think that is what most people mean by "Conditional Salvation".Meaning, the true believers who do not justify sin are those who believe the Bible’s teaching on Conditional Salvation.
OSAS is an excuse to sin no matter how people try to spin it. The Bible does not teach Unconditional Eternal Security.
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and My Father are one. (Jn 10:27–30)
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