From Gods Tables of Stone to the Fleshy Tables in our Hearts

[oikonomia]

The case you seem to be trying to make is that we can have Christ without obeying His law and it is simply is not so.

Dead wrong on that. The case the New Testament makes is that we receive Christ in order to LIVE by Him.
His very life is a law of life.

If we are in Him He changes us from the inside out starting with our thoughts and feelings and we love Him so much we would have no objection to anything He asks and He asks for so little- If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15

That is right. His commandments are all the leanings, guidances, movements, and speakings of the the Spirit.
They may concern such minute things as are so intimate, personal, and subjective our words may not be able to express them.

Here's an example. When Paul went to Troas there was an open door for him to preach the gospel.
It was even an opportunity opened to him by the Lord.
But he would not because he had no rest in his spirit. He would only have the sense of life and peace
in his innermost being when he could see his colleague Titus.

Furthermore, when I came to Troas for the gospel of Christ and a door was open to me in the Lord,
I had no rest in my spirit, for I did not find Titus my brother; but taking leave of them, I went forth into Macedonia. (2 Cor. 2:12,13)

This was a man very sensitive to the leading of the Spirit in his spirit.
This is the man who in spite of a opportunity outwardly to work he set his mind on his spirit
to see if he had the sense of life and peace.
. . . the mind set on the spirit is life and peace. (Rom. 8:6b)
. . . For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. (Rom. 8:14)

Immediately after Paul testifies that he had no peace to take advantage
of the outward opportunity "a door was open to me in the Lord" and that he
lacked the rest in his spirit, he boasts that he and his co-workers are led as captives by Christ.

I had no rest in my spirit, for I did not find Titus my brother; but taking leave of them, I went forth into Macedonia.
But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumph in the Christ . . . ( 2 Cor. 2:12,13)

Do you believe that this was Paul abiding in the Lord seeking what was His command?
I believe that this was a man finely tuned into the leading of the Holy Spirit.
He could have gone on an labored to preach like he so often did. The outward opportunity was there.
But he had to have the sense of life and peace in his innermost spiritual being.

Many other examples could be given.
My point is that the commands of the indwelling Spirit of Christ are not codified, not engraved on stone, but
minute and exceedingly intimate.

I don't understand the objection to obeying God and His law.

When you first become a Christian the early thoughts might well be about following the Old Testament commandments.
This is a typical way to start, checking to keep the law. Even to keep your own law - you know - saying "from now on I will. . . "

I believe that as you grow you'll find that without the moment by moment enjoyment of Jesus, you can't make it.
Then you get to a point of praying -
"Lord Jesus, You have to be my consecration."
"Lord Jesus, I cannot forgive this person. Lord YOU have to come in and forgive them in me."
"Lord Jesus, I want to sin here. I really want to commit this sin. Lord YOU have to come in and be my fleeing this temptation."

What I am doing is show you have you realize that you need Christ to be EVERYTHING for you.
He is the only one who is absolute for the will of the Father.

This is learning to live by the grace of Christ. Christ becomes like the power steering of an automobile.
All you need is to turn your heart to Him in a detailed way. And the power of His life blends into your reactions.

It is also in the heat of tempation standing on the truth of our co-death with Christ.
"Lord Jesus, thankyou that I was crucified with You. Lord Jesus thankyou this is buried with You.
Lord Jesus, Your death on the cross terminated this evil thing in me. Thankyou Lord for
You putting to death the old man."

As we learn to proclaim these things and stand upon these things turning our hearts to
Him they become realities in our living.

He makes His home in our hearts through faith.
He not only initially comes into our hearts by faith.
He occupies each and every chamber of our heart by faith.

That He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory,
to be strengthened with power through His Spirit into the inner man,
That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, (Eph. 3:16,17)

It is His purpose to dispense Himself into us.
This coming into the various rooms of our heart to make HIS home is His need for His eternal economy.

Then we see we need not act like poor beggers. Why it is HIS desire and purpose
to come into all the parts of our personality. And we allow Him to do so "by faith".

If we have faith in Him and His every Word, why would we want to worship other gods,

We would not. His word in the Old Testament makes the conscience sensative.
All Scripture is God breathed and profitable for teaching; for reproof for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
that the man of God may be complete - fully equiped for every good work.

Enhale God's "breath" in the word. Every book is breathed out from God.
The flesh profits nothing. The words that Jesus speaks are spirit and are divine life.
And He can and does speak to the opened heart in all parts of the 66 books of the Bible.

Please do not think I mean to stop READING in spirit Exodus, Deutoeronomy, Leviticus, Numbers, Psalms, etc. etc. etc.
ALL THE MORE the Spirit indwelt lover needs to EAT and be Nourished in the word of God.

I must suspend writing for now.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Dead wrong on that. The case the New Testament makes is that we receive Christ in order to LIVE by Him.
His very life is a law of life.

That is right. His commandments are all the leanings, guidances, movements, and speakings of the the Spirit.
They may concern such minute things as are so intimate, personal, and subjective our words may not be able to express them.

Here's an example. When Paul went to Troas there was an open door for him to preach the gospel.
It was even an opportunity opened to him by the Lord.
But he would not because he had no rest in his spirit. He would only have the sense of life and peace
in his innermost being when he could see his colleague Titus.

Furthermore, when I came to Troas for the gospel of Christ and a door was open to me in the Lord,
I had no rest in my spirit, for I did not find Titus my brother; but taking leave of them, I went forth into Macedonia. (2 Cor. 2:12,13)

This was a man very sensitive to the leading of the Spirit in his spirit.
This is the man who in spite of a opportunity outwardly to work he set his mind on his spirit
to see if he had the sense of life and peace.
. . . the mind set on the spirit is life and peace. (Rom. 8:6b)
. . . For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. (Rom. 8:14)

Immediately after Paul testifies that he had no peace to take advantage
of the outward opportunity "a door was open to me in the Lord" and that he
lacked the rest in his spirit, he boasts that he and his co-workers are led as captives by Christ.

I had no rest in my spirit, for I did not find Titus my brother; but taking leave of them, I went forth into Macedonia.
But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumph in the Christ . . . ( 2 Cor. 2:12,13)

Do you believe that this was Paul abiding in the Lord seeking what was His command?
I believe that this was a man finely tuned into the leading of the Holy Spirit.
He could have gone on an labored to preach like he so often did. The outward opportunity was there.
But he had to have the sense of life and peace in his innermost spiritual being.

Many other examples could be given.
My point is that the commands of the indwelling Spirit of Christ are not codified, not engraved on stone, but
minute and exceedingly intimate.



When you first become a Christian the early thoughts might well be about following the Old Testament commandments.
This is a typical way to start, checking to keep the law. Even to keep your own law - you know - saying "from now on I will. . . "

I believe that as you grow you'll find that without the moment by moment enjoyment of Jesus, you can't make it.
Then you get to a point of praying -
"Lord Jesus, You have to be my consecration."
"Lord Jesus, I cannot forgive this person. Lord YOU have to come in and forgive them in me."
"Lord Jesus, I want to sin here. I really want to commit this sin. Lord YOU have to come in and be my fleeing this temptation."

What I am doing is show you have you realize that you need Christ to be EVERYTHING for you.
He is the only one who is absolute for the will of the Father.

This is learning to live by the grace of Christ. Christ becomes like the power steering of an automobile.
All you need is to turn your heart to Him in a detailed way. And the power of His life blends into your reactions.

It is also in the heat of tempation standing on the truth of our co-death with Christ.
"Lord Jesus, thankyou that I was crucified with You. Lord Jesus thankyou this is buried with You.
Lord Jesus, Your death on the cross terminated this evil thing in me. Thankyou Lord for
You putting to death the old man."

As we learn to proclaim these things and stand upon these things turning our hearts to
Him they become realities in our living.

He makes His home in our hearts through faith.
He not only initially comes into our hearts by faith.
He occupies each and every chamber of our heart by faith.

That He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory,
to be strengthened with power through His Spirit into the inner man,
That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, (Eph. 3:16,17)

It is His purpose to dispense Himself into us.
This coming into the various rooms of our heart to make HIS home is His need for His eternal economy.

Then we see we need not act like poor beggers. Why it is HIS desire and purpose
to come into all the parts of our personality. And we allow His to do so "by faith".


We would not. His word in the Old Testament makes the conscience sensative.
All Scripture is God breathed and profitable for teaching; for reproof for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
that the man of God may be complete - fully equiped for every good work.

Enhale God's "breath" in the word. Every book is breathed out from God.
The flesh profits nothing. The words that Jesus speaks are spirit and are divine life.
And He can and does speak to the opened heart in all parts of the 66 books of the Bible.

Please do not think I mean to stop READING in spirit Exodus, Deutoeronomy, Leviticus, Numbers, Psalms, etc. etc. etc.
ALL THE MORE the Spirit indwelt lover needs to EAT and be Nourished in the word of God.

I must suspend writing for now.

If the indwelling spirit was within us, we would not be hostile to God's law Romans 8:7-8 because God placed His law in our hearts and minds Heb 8:10 and we keep it though love and faith. 1 John 5:3 John 14:15 Romans 3:31

No one is saying we don't keep our eyes on Jesus. In fact obeying Him is keeping our eyes on Him because sin separate us Isa 59:2 it shows we are not a slave to Christ but a slave to sin and there are really only two options. Romans 6:16

All the law does is shows us our condition as it reveals sin, 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 and points us to Jesus who through His blood can cleanse us of sin and unrighteousness 1 John 1:9 but true repentance means a change in direction because when Jesus healed He said go and sin no more. John 8:11 as our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 we are not saved in sin. Heb 10:26-30

Paul didn't teach anything different. In fact He taught what matters is keeping the commandments of God. 1 Cor 7:19 and Christ wants to free us from sin, which means one is keeping His commandments. He even gives us His Spirit to help John 14:15-18 and the Spirit is given to those who obey Acts 5:32 and it reconciles us back to Him Rev 22:14

 

[oikonomia]

If the indwelling spirit was within us, we would not be hostile to God's law Romans 8:7-8 because God placed His law in our hearts and minds Heb 8:10 and we keep it though love and faith. 1 John 5:3 John 14:15 Romans 3:31

God placed the living Lord into the hearts of believers.
See how the Lord said about His resurrection "Because I live you shall live also". (John 14:19)

These were all great passages. Remember the commands of Jesus are Jesus blending with us.

"Oh what a miracle my Lord.
That Thou in me and I in You.
That You and I are really one.
Oh what a wonderous mystery."

No one is saying we don't keep our eyes on Jesus.

That's right. His love constrains us to live unto Him.
For the love of Christ constrains us because we have judged this, that One died for all, therefore all died; (2 Cor. 5:21)
Second Corinthians is really a autobiography of the Apostle Paul.

Isn't it significant that he sais "the love of Christ constrains us".
We might have thought he should have said "the law of God constrains us".

But it is the love which is poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit that constrains us.
The wider we open the more that stream of love in His Spirit moves us and carries us away.

He carries us away, sweeping us not only from sin but from self.
One died a redemptive death for all.
But this One died also a terminating death for all.

that One died for all, therefore all died;

It is His love that He shed His redeeming blood for our sins.
And it is His love that we died in Him that we could live unto the resurrected One.

that One died for all, therefore all died;
And He died for all that those who live may no longer live to themselves
but to Him who died for them and has been raised. (vs.14b,15)

And the Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you.
There in His Spirit with our spirit is His life, His death to redeem us, and His death to terminate the self life.
And His resurrection is there also - all ingredients of the life giving Spirit.

"Because I live you shall live also".
What a Christ!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

God placed the living Lord into the hearts of believers.
See how the Lord said about His resurrection "Because I live you shall live also". (John 14:19)

These were all great passages. Remember the commands of Jesus are Jesus blending with us.

"Oh what a miracle my Lord.
That Thou in me and I in You.
That You and I are really one.
Oh what a wonderous mystery."

That's right. His love constrains us to live unto Him.
For the love of Christ constrains us because we have judged this, that One died for all, therefore all died; (2 Cor. 5:21)
Second Corinthians is really a autobiography of the Apostle Paul.

Isn't it significant that he sais "the love of Christ constrains us".
We might have thought he should have said "the law of God constrains us".

But it is the love which is poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit that constrains us.
The wider we open the more that stream of love in His Spirit moves us and carries us away.

He carries us away, sweeping us not only from sin but from self.
One died a redemptive death for all.
But this One died also a terminating death for all.

that One died for all, therefore all died;

It is His love that He shed His redeeming blood for our sins.
And it is His love that we died in Him that we could live unto the resurrected One.

that One died for all, therefore all died;
And He died for all that those who live may no longer live to themselves
but to Him who died for them and has been raised. (vs.14b,15)

And the Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you.
There in His Spirit with our spirit is His life, His death to redeem us, and His death to terminate the self life.
And His resurrection is there also - all ingredients of the life giving Spirit.

"Because I live you shall live also".
What a Christ!

God placed His law in our hearts and minds Heb 8:10 and the Spirit is given to help us obey His commandments John 14:15-18 and given to those who obey. Acts 5:32 Rom 8:4-8

It's a love relationship and love must go both ways. No love relationship can sustain on one way love. A lot of people reply completely on what God does for us yet neglects what He asks.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.
John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Because Jesus doesn't want us to sin- which is breaking His law 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 or depend on our version of righteousness and not God's Psa 119:172 than it is no longer is a love relationship but a relationship of self. If we have Jesus in our hearts and love Him with all our heart, mind and soul we would be keeping His commandments and doing everything He asks.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

When we sin it shows our heart belongs to another 1 John 3:8...His will for us is that we don't sin but keep His commandments, if we stumble along the way we have an Advocate with Jesus who wants nothing more than to forgive and give grace. When Jesus healed He said go and sin no more. True repentance means a sorry heart and a change of direction. All the Ten Commandments do is shows us our sin and reveals our condition Romans 3:20 Romans 7:7 and so we are depending on God's standard of righteousness Psa 119:172 and not our own. The same standard Jesus lived who not only came to take the penalty of sin, but also lived to show us the righteous standard of living, He is the Way and He led by example, our example to follow. 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15


1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

 

[oikonomia]

Paul didn't teach anything different. In fact He taught what matters is keeping the commandments of God.

Here is a difference in that the new covenant is different from the old covenant.

Is then the law against the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given which was able to give life, righteousness would have indeed been of law. (Gal. 3:21)

The promises of God have not changed from Abraham.
But the law could not dispense into man the life of God.
The resurrected Christ could give divine life because that Person became a life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45)

1 Cor 7:19 and Christ wants to free us from sin, which means one is keeping His commandments.

Write something if you can about Christ wants us to be free from SELF.

He even gives us His Spirit to help John 14:15-18 and the Spirit is given to those who obey Acts 5:32 and it reconciles us back to Him Rev 22:14

Acts 5:32 is very good. We ought to understand it as Christ spreading throughout our being.

There is the first obeying Him to receive Him.
Then there is the life long obeying Him by being strengthened into the inner man.

As we are strengthened into that realm where Christ dwells in our spirit
He will make home in more and more chambers of our mind, emotion, will, and conscience which equals our heart.

That He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit into the inner man,
That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, that you, being rooted and grounded in love, (Eph. 3:16,17)

Rooted is like a plant drawing up all the nutrients in the soil.
Grounded is like a house coming together as the living stones are growing.

This rooted in Christ's love and grounded in Christ's love is for the
growing of the Triune God in man and the building of His corporate dwelling place as His habitation in the church.

Being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone;
In whom all the building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord;
In whom you also are being built together into a dwelling place of God in spirit. (Eph. 2:20-22)

This is about "the law of the house" in New Testament terms.

This is the law of the house: Its entire area on the top of and all around the mountain
shall be most holy. Indeed this is the law of the house. (Ezekiel 43:12)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

SabbathBlessings said:
1 Cor 7:19 and Christ wants to free us from sin, which means one is keeping His commandments.

Write something if you can about Christ wants us to be free from SELF.

Are you saying if we only worship God and not place anything else above Him, use His name only in a holy manner, not bow to false images and keep His Sabbath day holy like He commanded is about "self" and not honoring and worshipping God. But not doing these thing, the opposite of what God commanded, is about God. I would suggest you prayerfully read Mat 15 , Mark 7 John 14:15, Mat 19:17-19 Mat 5:19-30 Mat 7:21-23 because it is the opposite of what Jesus taught.

As I stated above, no relationship can sustain on one way love.

Mark 7:6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men

Sin is the root to all self-ishness. Our will over God's. If we truly want to submit to God and have the living Spirit dwell in us, we would do and live the way Jesus lived and taught. We would not be hostile to His law Rom 8:7-8. If we are its not a good sign, not all is lost yet, but our time I truly believe is drawing near when Jesus returns. It will be a day when we least expect and once He does our fates will already be sealed. Rev 22:11

Shouldn't we all strive to hear these words? Instead of v15

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

 

[oikonomia]

God placed His law in our hearts and minds Heb 8:10 and the Spirit is given to help us obey His commandments John 14:15-18 and given to those who obey. Acts 5:32 Rom 8:4-8

It's a love relationship and love must go both ways. No love relationship can sustain on one way love. A lot of people reply completely on what God does for us yet neglects what He asks.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.
John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

This is very good.
If you can could you write something about faith operates through love?

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything nor uncircumcision, but faith avails, operating through love. (Gal. 5:6)

Please teach me something if you can about Christ making His home in my heart through faith.

That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, (Eph. 3:17a)

I think these are two important points - faith operates through love and Christ makes His home in our hearts through faith.

we are depending on God's standard of righteousness Psa 119:172 and not our own.

Say something if you have anything on the standard of God in the new covenant being "life and peace"

For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace. (Rom. 8:6)

My experience is that I know the Lord is happy with me if I sense life and peace in the mind as it
is set on the Spirit in my spirit.

I am taught to let the peace of Christ be the umpire, the arbitrator in my heart in all things.
And let the peace of Christ arbitrate in your hearts, to which also you were called in one Body; and be thankful. (Col. 3:15)

The peace of Christ is the final Arbitrator in the church.
All cases adjudicated by the teaching of the apostles and the inward peace of Christ - the mind set on the spirit where there is
the sense of divine life and divine peace.

Is there something you could share about this?

 

[Gary K]

Here is a difference in that the new covenant is different from the old covenant.

Is then the law against the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given which was able to give life, righteousness would have indeed been of law. (Gal. 3:21)

The promises of God have not changed from Abraham.
But the law could not dispense into man the life of God.
The resurrected Christ could give divine life because that Person became a life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45)


Write something if you can about Christ wants us to be free from SELF.

Acts 5:32 is very good. We ought to understand it as Christ spreading throughout our being.

There is the first obeying Him to receive Him.
Then there is the life long obeying Him by being strengthened into the inner man.

As we are strengthened into that realm where Christ dwells in our spirit
He will make home in more and more chambers of our mind, emotion, will, and conscience which equals our heart.

That He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit into the inner man,
That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, that you, being rooted and grounded in love, (Eph. 3:16,17)

Rooted is like a plant drawing up all the nutrients in the soil.
Grounded is like a house coming together as the living stones are growing.

This rooted in Christ's love and grounded in Christ's love is for the
growing of the Triune God in man and the building of His corporate dwelling place as His habitation in the church.

Being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone;
In whom all the building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord;
In whom you also are being built together into a dwelling place of God in spirit. (Eph. 2:20-22)

This is about "the law of the house" in New Testament terms.

This is the law of the house: Its entire area on the top of and all around the mountain
shall be most holy. Indeed this is the law of the house. (Ezekiel 43:12)

Where is the NC different from the OC? It was given to Jeremiah a Jew who could have understood it in no other terms than to keep the Sabbath as part of the law.

Jeremiah 31: 31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

I want to focus on verse 34. What does it say? No one will have to teach anyone else about God because the new covenant will teach them about Him.

Now notice the exact parallel in John 17: 3.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

It is in knowing God, closely and intimately, that gives us eternal life. There is no other way to be saved for knowing Him that well causes us to fully trust Him with every detail of our life. Jesus will then not tell us in the judgment I never knew you. That is the very core of the NC; its reason for existence.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

This is very good.
If you can could you write something about faith operates through love?

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything nor uncircumcision, but faith avails, operating through love. (Gal. 5:6)

Please teach me something if you can about Christ making His home in my heart through faith.

That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, (Eph. 3:17a)

I think these are two important points - faith operates through love and Christ makes His home in our hearts through faith.


Say something if you have anything on the standard of God in the new covenant being "life and peace"

For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace. (Rom. 8:6)

My experience is that I know the Lord is happy with me if I sense life and peace in the mind as it
is set on the Spirit in my spirit.

I am taught to let the peace of Christ be the umpire, the arbitrator in my heart in all things.
And let the peace of Christ arbitrate in your hearts, to which also you were called in one Body; and be thankful. (Col. 3:15)

The peace of Christ is the final Arbitrator in the church.
All cases adjudicated by the teaching of the apostles and the inward peace of Christ - the mind set on the spirit where there is
the sense of divine life and divine peace.

Is there something you could share about this?

Faith is a big Word, and it's how we are saved - grace through faith. If you read Hebrews 11 you will see that faith is not passive but active. How can we have faith in Jesus, but not have faith to believe and do His teachings. I already shared several of His teachings and I believe when Jesus said not to break the least of His commandments or teach others to break, He means what He says. It affects our status in heaven, yet people gloss over this as if He didn't really mean it. Faith does not void the law, but it establishes it. Romans 3:31 Without faith it is imposable to please God. Heb 11:6 So when He says If you love Me, keep My commandments- do we have faith in His Words or faith in what we want to do instead.

Everything comes back to our obedience to God because it shows who our allegiance is to. God- If you love Me keep My commandments. Or His adversary 1 John 3:8 who wants nothing more for us to believe we can disobey God and live, the very first lie in the garden that continues to deceive millions if not billions of people today. We don't need to keep God's commandments all we need to do is love and we can define love instead of living by His every Word who said Exo 20:6 John 14:15 1 John 5:3 John 15:10 . Love, faith and obedience are all tied together. You can't separate one without the other.

Disobedience/sin separated God from man Isa 59:2 and our God does not change- we cannot continue in that same path of disobedience and expect a different result.

We only receive peace when we are in harmony with God. In God's peace or rest, there is no rebellion to Him which is why one receives peace.

Isa 48:18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

Two paths....

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Jesus in His own Words said false worship is keeping our commandments over the commandments of God quoting from the Ten Commandments. Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

True worship the antidote to false worship is keeping His commandments and having the same faith of Jesus. How did Jesus live as our example?

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.


One of the last scripture before the revelation of Jesus Christ.


Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 or any of them 1 John 2:4). The commandments are a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28 you break one we break them all. James 2:10-12


We can be in the first option and enter through the gates reconciled with Christ - we don't have to do it alone, but it requires our cooperation and two-way love relationship John 14:15-18 John 15:10

 

[oikonomia]

Faith is a big Word, and it's how we are saved - grace through faith.

It is also how we live.
As therefore you have received the Christ, Jesus the Lord, walk in Him, (Col. 6:2)

If you read Hebrews 11 you will see that faith is not passive but active.

This is right.
“But the righteous shall have life and live by faith.” (Rom. 1:17b RcV)
The righteous not only are reborn through faith but continue to live step by step through faith.

How can we have faith in Jesus, but not have faith to believe and do His teachings.

We actually have no faith in ourselves. We even have to come to Him to receive faith.
The faith is His. I believe we have to praise Him even for what He put into our hearts "the faith of the Son of God,".

I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. (Gal. 2:20)

What faith would Abraham the father of faith have except God appeared to Him? (Act 7:2)
Like Abraham the father of faith the God of glory appeared to us also infusing us with "the faith of the Son of God."
I have no faith in myself. I know where I can go to obtain some. I go to the word in prayer and let
the God of glory appear to me also.

I cannot write more right now.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It is also how we live.
As therefore you have received the Christ, Jesus the Lord, walk in Him, (Col. 6:2)

This is right.
“But the righteous shall have life and live by faith.” (Rom. 1:17b RcV)
The righteous not only are reborn through faith but continue to live step by step through faith.


We actually have no faith in ourselves. We even have to come to Him to receive faith.
The faith is His. I believe we have to praise Him even for what He put into our hearts "the faith of the Son of God,".

I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. (Gal. 2:20)

What faith would Abraham the father of faith have except God appeared to Him? (Act 7:2)
Like Abraham the father of faith the God of glory appeared to us also infusing us with "the faith of the Son of God."
I have no faith in myself. I know where I can go to obtain some. I go to the word in prayer and let
the God of glory appear to me also.

I cannot write more right now.

I agree, faith comes from God and if He is living in us we are keeping His commandments John 14:15-18 if we are hostile to God's law its really not a good sign Rom 8:7-8 1 John 2:4 Rev 22:15 Mat 7:23 if we stumble and fall we have an Advocate in Jesus when we confess, He is faithful to forgive us, but when He heals He says go and sin no more. We need to have faith in Jesus and the faith of Jesus Rev 14:15. The faith of Jesus is that He died to pay the penalty of sin for us and lived to be our example to follow. He is the Way and led by example our example to follow 1 John 2:6 Heb 4:15 1 Peter 21:22 and His faith kept all the commandments including the Sabbath John 15:10 Luke 4:16 and taught us to as well. John 14:15 Exo 20:6 Mat 5:19-30. The just shall live by faith and by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God Mat 4:4

 

[reddogs]

From the same passage:

2 Corinthians 3:12-17 KJV
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

1) Mosheh put a veil over his face because it was the skin of his face that shown with glory: not the tablets or the Torah. It is the flesh that is passing away just as it always does, right along with your physical-minded carnal interpretations of the Torah which will pass away when your carcass waxes old, dies, and decays.
2) The goal is not to abolish the Torah but to understand it: and that does not happen except for those who are truly indeed "in Meshiah".
3) Where the Spirit of the LORD is, there is liberty.

Ezekiel 11:19-20 KJV
19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 36:25-28 KJV
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

This new Spirit, which is the Spirit of the Father, is freely given through and in the Testimony of the Meshiah which is Spirit, (John 6:63), and is therefore the new Spirit of the new-renewed covenant.

Luke 4:16-18 KJV
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, [Isa 61:1]

Isaiah 61:1a ~ "Ruach Adonai YHWH is upon me"...

We really need to study the Hebrew to get a fuller grasp of the meaning being given..

 

[oikonomia]

We really need to study the Hebrew to get a fuller grasp of the meaning being given..

In the passage it is the ministry of the old covenant which is passing away.
It is fine that daq points out other things God is bringing to naught.
But he should not handwave off to them to deny that the ministry of the old covenant is what Second Corinthians says is passing away.

For if there is glory with the ministry of condemnation, much more the ministry of righteousness abounds with glory.
For also that which has been glorified in this respect has not been glorified on account of the surpassing glory.
For if that which was being done away with [the ministry of condemnation] was through glory, much more that which remains is in glory. (2 Cor. 3:9-11)

And good English translation of the Greek is adaquate.
And the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit which is available to all with a willingness to have Christ change them.

 

[reddogs]

Good post and happy Sabbath. So the big argument even among those here who agree with your post is which laws. Some say the Ten, some say all. And some say some of the all. The thing is God did not leave us in respect to our own wisdom in this. Deut. 29:1 tells us that God had a second covenant besides the one at Horeb that He was making with the children of Israel before they entered the promised land. Deut.. 30:10-14 give us the details. We are to hearken unto the voice of the Lord our God. Keep His commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law. Judgements is not mentioned here just the commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law.

Why does He say that we are to keep His commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law and not the judgments?

Because He goes on to say that this commandment to keep His commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law is not far from us. But this Word is in our hearts and in our mouths to do it. Not the Judgements contained in the Book of the Law but The commandments and statutes. Not those judgments that admonished and condemned us when we sinned for they are not necessary. For His Word is in our heart and mouth to do it. (see Rom. 10:4-8 where it is paraphrased for out learning) Or as Jeremiah Put it and you so astutely quoted in His giving of this new covenant again due to our stiff necks and hard hearts. WHerein He said affirming which was given to Moses in Deut. 29:1-30:14. He said, This is the Covenant that I will make, I will put my Law into your hearts and in your minds write them.



Deut 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.

Deut 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deut 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deut 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

It has always been the Ten as it is from the character of God of His love, so it does not change or go away.

 

[HIM]

It has always been the Ten as it is from the character of God of His love, so it does not change or go away.

Not according to Deut. 30:10-14

 

[oikonomia]

 

[Gary K]

How does that song agree with the results of the NC which is knowing God which Jesus says is life eternal.

 

[oikonomia]

How does that song agree with the results of the NC which is knowing God which Jesus says is life eternal.

I will be able to write more latter about this question. But in the mean time the song's lyrics are the New Testament verses below.
Let's review them again before I explain thier relevance to the new covenant.

Second Corinthians 3:8-10 - I think the word "more" may have been omitted in the song.

How shall the ministry of the Spirit not be more in glory?
For if there is glory with the ministry of condemnation, much more the ministry of righteousness abounds with glory.
For also that which has been glorified in this respect has not been glorified on account of the surpassing glory.

 

[Gary K]

I will be able to write more latter about this question. But in the mean time the song's lyrics are the New Testament verses below.
Let's review them again before I explain thier relevance to the new covenant.

Second Corinthians 3:8-10 - I think the word "more" may have been omitted in the song.

How shall the ministry of the Spirit not be more in glory?
For if there is glory with the ministry of condemnation, much more the ministry of righteousness abounds with glory.
For also that which has been glorified in this respect has not been glorified on account of the surpassing glory.

You seem to be ignoring the context of the entire chapter which is set in the first 3 verses.

 

[oikonomia]

You seem to be ignoring the context of the entire chapter which is set in the first 3 verses.

Well, I didn't answer the question yet. Let me first give you something to disagree with.

Your question: How does that song agree with the results of the NC which is knowing God which Jesus says is life eternal.

The verses (2 Cor. 3:8-10) contain some of these relevant aspects to the new covenant.

1.) A question - How shall the ministry of the Spirit not be more in glory?

The rhetorical question is answered ie. "Of course the new covenant ministry is more glorious than the old covenant ministry."
The impartation of the Spirit and the ministers of this impartation carry out a more splendid and glorious ministry
than Moses or the law teachers ever had. The old covenant came in glory. The new covenant is MORE in glory.

To know God's life by having Him imparted into us is more glorious than to only work for a God obeying commands
yet no inwrd fellowship with Him. The former is to attempt to work for God without the divine life of God indwelling us.

2.) A comparison - For if there is glory with the ministry of condemnation, much more the ministry of righteousness abounds with glory.

The old covenant and its ministry was a "ministry of condemnation". That is condemning because of the LACK of righteousness on man's part. By comparison the new covenant endows man and imparts to man righteousness which he lacked.
For this reason also it is abounding perpetually forever in surpassing glory. It is eternal impartation of divine righteousness to man.
This is because it is the dispensing of the life of the righteous God Himself in Christ as the life giving Spirit into man.

"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15;45b)
Who has also made us sufficient as ministers of a new covenant, ministers not of the letter but of the Spirit;
for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Cor. 3:66)


3.) The new covenant malking the first covenant unglorified- For also that which has been glorified in this respect has not been glorified on account of the surpassing glory.

Paul goes as far to say the glory of the new covenant has "not been glortified" on account that the glory of the new covenant so surpasses the glory of the old. The "ministry of the Spirit" a Divine Person is a ministry of His LIFE into man.

The latter ministry is of divine and righteous eternal life into man. The ministry of the Spirit is also the ministry of righteousness.
The former is the ministry of condemnation exposing the unrighteous shortage in man placing him ever under God's condemning judgment.

Now if you wish you can explain how my expounding of verses 8-11 "ignores" what you call the context of the chapter described in verses 1-3.

The first three verses of chapter 3 -

Are we beginning again to commend ourselves? Or do we need, as some do, letters of commendation to you or from you?

You are our letter, inscribed in our hearts, known and read by all men,

Since you are being manifested that you are a letter of Christ ministered by us, inscribed not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tablets of stone but in tablets of hearts of flesh.