Jer 31:31-34

[SabbathBlessings]

I sincerely hope it is indeed sorted out for you soon enough, but as for me, concerning this topic, that has already happened, and that became especially true when I finally realized the difference between Rhema-Spoken Word, (Exo 20), and Logos-Understanding, (Exo 34), based on that Spoken Word-Rhema, (Exo 20). Thus we are warned not to lean on our own understanding, (Prov 3:5).

The Pharisees thought they had it all figured out and ended up crucifying God's only Son, so the point is, its not our truth that matters or our own judgement about ourselves or others, we all have to answer to a much Higher Authority one day soon.

 

[Leaf473]

^ only if one didn't fully understand the extent, reach and principles of the Ten Commandments.

If one was truly keeping the very first commandment Exo 20:3 would do everything Jesus asks of us, which is summed up in love- love to man, love to God.

Sounds good so far

If we follow this commandment, will we do everything Jesus asks of us?

Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 5 - New American Standard Bible

The Ten Commandments Repeated - Now Moses summoned all Israel and said to them: “Listen, Israel, to the statutes and ordinances which I am speaking today for you to hear, so that you may learn them and be careful to do them. The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. The LORD did not...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sounds good so far

If we follow this commandment, will we do everything Jesus asks of us?

Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 5 - New American Standard Bible

The Ten Commandments Repeated - Now Moses summoned all Israel and said to them: “Listen, Israel, to the statutes and ordinances which I am speaking today for you to hear, so that you may learn them and be careful to do them. The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. The LORD did not...

www.biblegateway.com

We have been down this road too many times. I'm not interested in talking about every law with you because it never ends and never provides any understanding. Like I have said to you many times, why don't you start with trying to obey the Ten Commandments, truly the way they were taught and kept by Jesus and the apostles. The Holy Spirit is given to those who obey Him Acts 5:32 no one will ever be able to understand all the laws in scripture without the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Trusting in God's work Exo 32:16 instead of our own works, may even change ones life.

Take care.

 

[Leaf473]

We have been down this road too many times. I'm not interested in talking about every law with you because it never ends and never provides any understanding. Like I have said to you many times, why don't you start with trying to obey the Ten Commandments, truly the way they were taught and kept by Jesus and the apostles. The Holy Spirit is given to those who obey Him Acts 5:32

no one will ever be able to understand all the laws in scripture without the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Amen to that and I believe I do have a good understanding of the law

It's a discussion forum If you don't want to discuss the law with me, that's fine

Peace be with you!

Trusting in God's work Exo 32:16 instead of our own works, may even change ones life.

Take care.

You too!

 

[Leaf473]

So for anyone who does want to discuss the law, Jeremiah 31 talks about God putting his law
(I take that to me and his Torah, his ways)
in our hearts and minds

That's obviously not the letters of the Ten commandments, or the letters of any other laws. What is written is principles.

And I say a big Amen to that!

Bible Gateway passage: Jeremiah 31:33 - New Living Translation

“But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel after those days,” says the LORD. “I will put my instructions deep within them, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[DamianWarS]

Do unto others as you would do unto yourself is the principle of how to love thy neighbor which is demonstrated from the Ten Commandment. Rom 13:9

According to Christ it is the sum of law and prophets

I did not come to destroy the law or prophets but to fulfill and the word here means to fill full and does not translate into breaking the least of these commandments as Jesus taught Mat 5:19 or editing any of the commandments Mat 5:18. Jesus quoted directly from the Ten Commandments to define the least of these commandments so we don't need to guess which commandments, but if you want to think and teach others the Ten Commandments are not in the New Covenant despite Jesus saying not to break or teach others to break the least of these as one would be least in heaven and by the next verse Mat5:20 least in heaven means one won't be there and you think that is being responsible and loving to our neighbor to teach people how to end up off the narrow path. We don't need to keep the Ten Commandments, its "Old Covenant" so we can now worship other gods, vain His holy name, break His holy Sabbath day or break the least of these commandments the opposite of what Jesus taught and lived, well, that is something we will all have to stand before Jesus one day soon to answer to. Jesus said when we keep our own rules over obeying the commandments of God quoting directly from the Ten Commandments one's heart is far from Him, which is not what the New Covenant is about- God's law written in our hearts kept by His faithful through loyalty, faith and love which reconciles Rev 22:14 Disobedience without repenting and forsaking Pro 28:13 through Christ John 14:15-18 separates Mat 7:23 Rev 22:15

According to Christ the context is the law and prophets. He does quote 2 of the 10, he also quotes outside the 10. So I'm not sure where you get this 10 only idea from.

I am going to take the advice Jesus gave to His disciples- Mat 15:14, there is only so much one can do. You will never convince me that God didn't separate the Ten Commandments from all other laws when He clearly said He did Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 Deut 5:22 Deut 31:24-26 and misunderstand their reach as Jesus explains Mat 5:19-30 or that the Ten Commandments is "old covenant" and we no longer need to keep them, not a teaching from Jesus or the apostles, but a teaching of man sadly leading people to sin 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 and Judgement James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30 Ecc 12:13-14 Rev 22:14-15 so we need to be very careful as Jesus stated what we teach and what we follow. Obeying God the way He said will never lead one off the narrow path but only back to reconciliation Rev22:14

You misunderstand the relationship of the old covenant and the new covenant. No verse you quoted separates the tablets from it's covenant, instead they establish the 10 inside a covenant relationship. A covenant that predates the new covenant, which can be appropriately refered to as the old. This is just the natural meaning of old and new, so I use them pragmatically speaking.

Moses kept the tablets in the ark, he put the book of the law next to the ark. Moses didn't write the tablets it was the finger of God, but he did write the book of the law as is explicit in the text. Tablets of covenant law, stayed in the ark of the covenant. What part of this tells you the tablets are new covenant tablets?

Book of law, lit. "words of the Torah" is an early version of the Torah as Moses wrote it from beginning to end which suggests something of substance, not only 10 commandments. I'm not sure what placing it beside the ark has to do with anything other than what the context says, as a witness similar to how we swear on a bible in a court of law.

I know you have a passion for the 10 and have been taught a narrow view of it, but these are not arguments, they are parts of scripture that somehow speaks of the 10. You can't just dump verses in that say commandments or laws and pretend people are going to agree with such a narrow focus interpretation that cannot be supported.

There is no critical thinking or logic applied here. There is no scripture support for the grand claims you make. It's a "because I said so" sentiment and frankly speaking is counter gospel, and hints of idoltry.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

According to Christ it is the sum of law and prophets


According to Christ the context is the law and prophets. He does quote 2 of the 10, he also quotes outside the 10. So I'm not sure where you get this 10 only idea from.



You misunderstand the relationship of the old covenant and the new covenant. No verse you quoted separates the tablets from it's covenant, instead they establish the 10 inside a covenant relationship. A covenant that predates the new covenant, which can be appropriately refered to as the old. This is just the natural meaning of old and new, so I use them pragmatically speaking.

Moses kept the tablets in the ark, he put the book of the law next to the ark. Moses didn't write the tablets it was the finger of God, but he did write the book of the law as is explicit in the text. Tablets of covenant law, stayed in the ark of the covenant. What part of this tells you the tablets are new covenant tablets?

Book of law, lit. "words of the Torah" is an early version of the Torah as Moses wrote it from beginning to end which suggests something of substance, not only 10 commandments. I'm not sure what placing it beside the ark has to do with anything other than what the context says, as a witness similar to how we swear on a bible in a court of law.

I know you have a passion for the 10 and have been taught a narrow view of it, but these are not arguments, they are parts of scripture that somehow speaks of the 10. You can't just dump verses in that say commandments or laws and pretend people are going to agree with such a narrow focus interpretation that cannot be supported.

There is no critical thinking or logic applied here. There is no scripture support for the grand claims you make. It's a "because I said so" sentiment and frankly speaking is counter gospel, and hints of idoltry.

Not even Jesus own teachings will convince you, huh? The Ten Commandments came in one unit Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 -when one is quoted they mean them all because breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12 hence why Jesus taught not to break the least of these commandments, they were never suggestions or multiple choice. Heaven is not "old covenant" but suit yourself. I say we keep them because God says so Exo 20:6 John 14:15 , my and your opinion means nothing.

 

[DamianWarS]

Not even Jesus own teachings will convince you, huh? The Ten Commandments came in one unit Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 -when one is quoted they mean them all because breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12 hence why Jesus taught not to break the least of these commandments, they were never suggestions or multiple choice. Heaven is not "old covenant" but suit yourself. I say we keep them because God says so Exo 20:6 John 14:15 , my and your opinion means nothing.

Your conflating. Not one of those verses separates the 10. James tells us not to show favoritism in the law which is exactly what you're doing with the 10. What exactly do you think the least of these commandments are? I would think the 10 would be regarded as the greatest. Surely it's something else like cornering your beard or not mixing your grains together. Christ was asked which is the greatest, he indeed quoted commandments from the law, he did not quote the 10 commandments.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Your conflating. Not one of those verses separates the 10. James tells us not to show favoritism in the law which is exactly what you're doing with the 10.

Please show me from which law James is only quoting and contrasting?

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

 

[daq]

The Pharisees thought they had it all figured out and ended up crucifying God's only Son, so the point is, its not our truth that matters or our own judgement about ourselves or others, we all have to answer to a much Higher Authority one day soon.

Are you now comparing me to a Pharisee? Why would that be necessary if that is the case? Moreover I did not say that I had it all figured out, and in fact, I even offered clues to where the answer may be found by offering up two Greek words, (transliterated into English), which explain what is already evident in most English translations of the relevant Hebrew texts. That is because unfortunately Hebrew does not have different words for Rhema and Logos, and in the relevant passages we find only dabar, (debarim), and thus it is required of the hearer and reader to understand the meaning by the context.

It is quite obvious that debarim means spoken word, (rhema), concerning the Ten as spoken in the hearing of all the people in Exo 20. However, in Exo 34, in the OG LXX, we read not rhema but logos for the Ten which are written therein. If you are not seeking and not interested in what was meant in my previous post that is your choice. As for me, again, as far is this which we have been discussing, it has already been sorted out, but that does not and should not translate into me supposedly saying that I have it all figured out. Neither am I a Pharisee: but you yourself do indeed hold many of their views concerning the Torah.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Are you now comparing me to a Pharisee? Why would that be necessary if that is the case? Moreover I did not say that I had it all figured out, and in fact, I even offered clues to where the answer may be found by offering up two Greek words, (transliterated into English), which explain what is already evident in most English translations of the relevant Hebrew texts. That is because unfortunately Hebrew does not have different words for Rhema and Logos, and in the relevant passages we find only dabar, (debarim), and thus it is required of the hearer and reader to understand the meaning by the context.

It is quite obvious that debarim means spoken word, (rhema), concerning the Ten as spoken in the hearing of all the people in Exo 20. However, in Exo 34, in the OG LXX, we read not rhema but logos for the Ten which are written therein. If you are not seeking and not interested in what was meant in my previous post that is your choice. As for me, again, as far is this which we have been discussing, it has already been sorted out, but that does not and should not translate into me supposedly saying that I have it all figured out. Neither am I a Pharisee: but you yourself do indeed hold many of their views concerning the Torah.

No, I was using them as an example, they thought they had it all figured it out, you made it clear you could not be wrong, but it goes to show from scripture even people who thought they could never be wrong, ended up being wrong. It goes to say for all of us,
I try my best not to re-interpret scriptures but believe them as they plainly read.

Anyway, this will be my last post on this, we are just too far apart to have any meaningful discussion, but I wish you well.

 

[DamianWarS]

Please show me from which law James is only quoting and contrasting?

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

This is inconclusive. It's not enough to separate the 10, not to mention James just got finished saying that keeping the royal law should be the focus, not showing favoritism to laws (like separating the 10) If you pool all these examples the 10 is never fully quoted for example the Sabbath is never mentioned. Based on your reasoning this is sufficient evidence to say it is implicitly never the focus.

Christ's comparison is with the "law and the prophets", a point you choose to ignore. You'd rather use anecdotal accounts like these to claim that Christ actually didn't mean what he said and what he really meant is 10 commandments. That may be according to your tradition but it's not what the words say.