Homosexual Sex?

[davedjy]

All i got was some things about chimps that were obviously just natural behaviors people took to be gay. I live in a rural community and i know that animals are driven by hormones. A bull in a pen with others that knows females are do will do the natural thing. That's just how it works.

No, that isn't true. They have examples of putting sheep in w/both sexes, and they only go to the male ones.

You cannot compare animals to people to make moral points of relevance becuz they are not identical in makeup or capacity.
Just like we can't point to plants to prove human morality or nature (other than... it takes a male & female to procreate? lol).

We will never have a population problem, because not all people are one way.

Don't you see the problem if all people wanted to be firemen?

Where would the police, the nurses, the doctors, electricians, etc. be? We are all different, created different. A rainbow ROFL (just kidding w/the rainbow, I don't like that usage anyways, it's strange).

 

[david_x]

No, that isn't true. They have examples of putting sheep in w/both sexes, and they only go to the male ones.

While were on the topic, animals could justify sex-changes too. One fish goes through rapid hermaphrotesm if there is no males around.

 

[Nadiine]

I understand your concern, sir. I have a relative who is a lesbian, SS unionized with children. I don't want to see her go to hell because she loves a woman and wants to be with her and her children. They are not hurting anyone, and they go to the Episcopal church. They help and do good to the community all the time. They really are very kind and want peace.

They don't want to go to hell, and they really do love God and people. They merely are in love with each other and they are not attracted to men? My relative seemed born that way to me. I loved to talk about boys, she never did.

Can we also say we were right in not keeping The Sabbath? Can we really say we have the only correct doctrine/theology? Can theology save us? Or can just trusting Jesus, do that?

Sorry, if I got soapy... but I have relatives.... and I have found theology to be more hurtful than helpful, sometimes.

Sympathy & Love don't CHANGE truth tho. Now we question doctrine just becuz we have loved ones?

I have loved ones who aren't saved but do charity work & have good lives; so can I say 'you don't REALLY have to be born again'.... I see alot of fumbling for loopholes, but the bible is clear on these issues.

Imo, 99% of CF members can claim homosexuality is fine, it won't change truth in the Bible for us; anymore than people believing the earth was flat made it flat for them. & I certainly question this "no harm" theory; as if these lifestyles aren't harmful to anyone... there's documentation to the contrary.

God only knows who are His or not, but His word is clear that living in chronic sinful lifestyles will keep people from eternal life.

I have a loved one who are really "GOOD", but..... the question becomes this: how do you love God, while living in complete disobedience to His teachings? (I'm talking about any lifestyles; not just this one).

JESUS defined that for us, "IF YOU LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDS". THAT is the proof of our love; that we live in submission & obedience. Not rebellion.

Rom 13:9-10 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.
​

ALL SIN HARMS ANOTHER, LOVE IS THE LAW (comprised of ALL the moral laws) TO KEEP US FROM HARMING OTHERS. If homosexuality is sinful (and I believe it absolutely is), then it HARMS another whether we SEE or understand what that damage is or not.
So many today think that consentual sex isn't harmful if the 2 adults agree to engage in it - but it does harm in ways we don't see.

So all gay vs. straight issues aside, LET'S GET TO BASICS ABOUT WHAT LOVE & SALVATION even are & that doctrine of God doesn't change despite our sympathy for humanity; in fact, IT SHOULD GET US BUSY TRYING TO REACH PEOPLE TO COME TO THE LORD becuz we realize the sober reality.

Hbr 10:31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

 

[davedjy]

While were on the topic, animals could justify sex-changes too. One fish goes through rapid hermaphrotesm if there is no males around.

Christians make WAY too big of an issue out of the sex of us. How does God deal w/hermaphrodites? they were not made to be born that way...or maybe they were, but we are unaware of that design? I have no idea, but it leads to things that are NOT In the Bible!

 

[davedjy]

Sympathy & Love don't CHANGE truth tho. Now we question doctrine just becuz we have loved ones?

I have loved ones who aren't saved but do charity work & have good lives; so can I say 'you don't REALLY have to be born again'.... I see alot of fumbling for loopholes, but the bible is clear on these issues.

Imo, 99% of CF members can claim homosexuality is fine, it won't change truth in the Bible for us; anymore than people believing the earth was flat made it flat for them. & I certainly question this "no harm" theory; as if these lifestyles aren't harmful to anyone... there's documentation to the contrary.

God only knows who are His or not, but His word is clear that living in chronic sinful lifestyles will keep people from eternal life.

I have a loved one who are really "GOOD", but..... the question becomes this: how do you love God, while living in complete disobedience to His teachings? (I'm talking about any lifestyles; not just this one).

JESUS defined that for us, "IF YOU LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDS". THAT is the proof of our love; that we live in submission & obedience. Not rebellion.

Rom 13:9-10 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.
​

ALL SIN HARMS ANOTHER, LOVE IS THE LAW (comprised of ALL the moral laws) TO KEEP US FROM HARMING OTHERS. If homosexuality is sinful (and I believe it absolutely is), then it HARMS another whether we SEE or understand what that damage is or not.
So many today think that consentual sex isn't harmful if the 2 adults agree to engage in it - but it does harm in ways we don't see.

So all gay vs. straight issues aside, LET'S GET TO BASICS ABOUT WHAT LOVE & SALVATION even are & that doctrine of God doesn't change despite our sympathy for humanity; in fact, IT SHOULD GET US BUSY TRYING TO REACH PEOPLE TO COME TO THE LORD becuz we realize the sober reality.

Hbr 10:31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

You still are cherry picking w/the doctrine you have been taught by the conservatives.
The Bible makes it VERY clear under this false doctrine, that homosexuals are not Christians living w/a thorn in their side or needing to die to their flesh.

GOD GAVE THEM UP COMPLETELY UNDER THIS DOCTRINE.

ROMANS 1 is misinterpreted! I have proved it to everyone that can actually see what I underline in that Chapter. Romans 1 is the ONLY and I repeat ONLY Chapter that can be used for debate, and I have disproved that on such a high level.

 

[david_x]

God has nothing against heremaphrodites, i was pointing out how ridiculouse it is to say that animals can justify ones sex practices

 

[david_x]

I'm gonna post it here too,

"a man should not lie with another man as a man lies with a woman."

 

[davedjy]

Where is the verse for lesbians???

thou shall not lie with womankind as with mankind it is abomination.

OH! what burn. and I have proved that one too...in Israel it was frowned upon if a man took a submissive role. So obviously, that would explain why lesbians wouldn't be in that equation.

 

[david_x]

OH! what burn. and I have proved that one too...in Israel it was frowned upon if a man took a submissive role. So obviously, that would explain why lesbians wouldn't be in that equation.

Ha ha, this isn't to Isreal.

 

[davedjy]

Ha ha, this isn't to Isreal.

You really need to study more, I'm telling you. I've already caught you on a few debate point, flaws.

He concludes that if this passage condemns some forms of homosexual behavior, it may refer only to the ancient Israelites, not to North America today. Perhaps: "at one time of human and Jewish history the path avoided gay male sexuality, and at a later time this avoidance might be null and void? Can the circle of the beloved community widen as we mature?"

 

[Foundthelight]

From today's Mass reading. I find it appropriate.

Reading 1
Ez 18:21-28

Thus says the Lord GOD:
If the wicked man turns away from all the sins he committed,
if he keeps all my statutes and does what is right and just,
he shall surely live, he shall not die.
None of the crimes he committed shall be remembered against him;
he shall live because of the virtue he has practiced.
Do I indeed derive any pleasure from the death of the wicked?
says the Lord GOD.
Do I not rather rejoice when he turns from his evil way
that he may live?

And if the virtuous man turns from the path of virtue to do evil,
the same kind of abominable things that the wicked man does,
can he do this and still live?
None of his virtuous deeds shall be remembered,
because he has broken faith and committed sin;
because of this, he shall die.
You say, “The LORD’s way is not fair!”
Hear now, house of Israel:
Is it my way that is unfair, or rather, are not your ways unfair?
When someone virtuous turns away from virtue to commit iniquity, and dies,
it is because of the iniquity he committed that he must die.
But if the wicked, turning from the wickedness he has committed,
does what is right and just,
he shall preserve his life;
since he has turned away from all the sins that he committed,
he shall surely live, he shall not die.

 

[Gusoceros]

Where is the verse for lesbians???

thou shall not lie with womankind as with mankind it is abomination.

OH! what burn. and I have proved that one too...in Israel it was frowned upon if a man took a submissive role. So obviously, that would explain why lesbians wouldn't be in that equation.

Actually- it is irrelevant, and david_x's point remains.

G

 

[davedjy]

Actually- it is irrelevant, and david_x's point remains.

G

Why? because you w/285 posts, said so?

I can't believe you are serious, I would love to see you as a judge ROFL!!!!!!!

I love paying $ to this site, to get posts like this, they just crack me up.

 

[Gusoceros]

Why? because you w/285 posts, said so?

I can't believe you are serious, I would love to see you as a judge ROFL!!!!!!!

I love paying $ to this site, to get posts like this, they just crack me up.

Postcount equates to credibility HOW?

Paying money to this site equates to credibility HOW?

Aside from feigned shock and indignation you have a point HOW?

G

 

[davedjy]

You did not explain WHY his post remains, It is only because you agree with it.

 

[ScottBot]

Postcount equates to credibility HOW?

Paying money to this site equates to credibility HOW?

Aside from feigned shock and indignation you have a point HOW?

G

That because some animals occationally display homosexual activity, then its okay for people to adopt it as a lifestyle.

Oh, and that you misinterpret the first Chapter of Romans, but he has it right.

 

[davedjy]

That because some animals occationally display homosexual activity, then its okay for people to adopt it as a lifestyle.

Oh, and that you misinterpret the first Chapter of Romans, but he has it right.

I never said that, you are saying that.

I gave very logical interpretations of every single verse.

YOU said that the homosexual acts are what makes you so angry, what I am saying is that I have proof that these Christian Reparative Therapy ministries are doing more harm than good. I have suicidal and depression proofs, as well as proof that every single credible mental health foundation says that they are doing more harm than good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparative_therapy

If you want to talk ethics, I will be glad to oblige, and give you a wealth of statistics and information.
They are all going after a small minority group that has absolutely no control over their orientation, and God damning them to hell
for not being able to change their attraction (not lust), not even addressed in the Bible.

 

[david_x]

My point remains because men and women are equal. There is no difference among our rights.

Does God change? Why would somthing that applied to Christians back then not apply to us now? Is Christs blood any less potent?

 

[davedjy]

That because some animals occationally display homosexual activity, then its okay for people to adopt it as a lifestyle.

Oh, and that you misinterpret the first Chapter of Romans, but he has it right.

Some animals and occassionally? You are off on both points.

Some animals -- 450

ocassionally -- malehorn sheep are expected to do this, otherwise they are an outcast in their society. That is just one example

I don't even have to argue animals, but I use that argument since you people say "it's not natural since animals don't do it".

Is it natural for humans? well yes, expressing love sexually to another you love and are sexually attracted to is VERY natural!

 

[davedjy]

My point remains because men and women are equal. There is no difference among our rights.

Does God change? Why would somthing that applied to Christians back then not apply to us now? Is Christs blood any less potent?

No, the book of Leviticus is VERY specific on each offense that is wrong. Look at how many different points it uses to exaggerate each offense in Chapter 18, and you will get the point. It is VERY specific.


Is this for today?

(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

(Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)

"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."

(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)