WOF ..what is it

[Truthfrees]

The statements are in harmony with each other.
I would use your second example first,because it qualified the first.

It is hard to explain to a critic that W.O.F does not claim anything out side of Gods Word for revelation.
Gods Word is a living Word,in that revelation comes through the Holy Spirit speaking to our inner witness from the word.

 

[Alithis]

I thought your thread was "What is wof"?

The genuine wof have answered that well.

Now you're speaking of "the few"?

If you have a bone to pick with the disingenuous, they're found in every denomination, so why pick ONLY on WOF?

Do the disingenuous of other denominations NOT bother you?

Do the disingenuous of ANY denomination make sense to ANY of us?

Why waste time talking about a few people who are badly off-track?

What's that going to accomplish?

Let's get about the FATHER'S business, so people can be saved, healed, and delivered.

haha just pull back on the reins a bit there bro .. your horse is galloping away a bit ..
if you read my OP .. you wil find there too i refer to "the few" in the words "some extremists " or as you put it (better) the "disingenuous" , stating that perhaps they are to blame for the very misconceptions your concerned about .

..shake hands and be friends ??

 

[Truthfrees]

haha just pull back on the reins a bit there bro .. your horse is galloping away a bit ..
if you read my OP .. you wil find there too i refer to "the few" in the words "some extremists " or as you put it (better) the "disingenuous" , stating that perhaps they are to blame for the very misconceptions your concerned about .

..shake hands and be friends ??

WOF aren't concerned with the disingenuous because we know they're in every denomination. They'll all have to answer to the LORD for their antics.

What we're addressing is the preoccupation non-wof have with the subject.

Why are you so concerned with only the disingenuous who claim to be wof?

Why do you keep attaching the genuine with the disingenuous (even in your OP) ONLY when it comes to wof?

Why don't you do that for every denomination, or SEPARATE the 2 in EVERY denomination?

How can I consider you a friend when you do this only to wof?

You're a brother because we have the same FATHER, but the way you post about wof isn't as a friend would.

The FATHER would be pleased if we could be both brothers and friends, but I think even HE would ask that your posts about wof be more considerate of the truth about wof.

The genuine wof are answering your questions.

Do you accept what we say, or do you still lump us in with the disingenuous and call us all wof?

Why don't you cut the disingenuous out from the wof herd and group them in with the disingenuous herd?

Isn't that what you do for other denominations?

 

[Alithis]

WOF aren't concerned with the disingenuous because we know they're in every denomination. They'll all have to answer to the LORD for their antics.

What we're addressing is the preoccupation non-wof have with the subject.

Why are you so concerned with only the disingenuous who claim to be wof?

Why do you keep attaching the genuine with the disingenuous (even in your OP) ONLY when it comes to wof?

Why don't you do that for every denomination, or SEPARATE the 2 in EVERY denomination?

How can I consider you a friend when you do this only to wof?

You're a brother because we have the same FATHER, but the way you post about wof isn't as a friend would.

The FATHER would be pleased if we could be both brothers and friends, but I think even HE would ask that your posts about wof be more considerate of the truth about wof.

The genuine wof are answering your questions.

Do you accept what we say, or do you still lump us in with the disingenuous and call us all wof?

Why don't you cut the disingenuous out from the wof herd and group them in with the disingenuous herd?

Isn't that what you do for other denominations?

did you read the Op .. ?and note who wrote it. your grabbing the wet end of the stick.the bit the dog chewed.overly defensive much?

 

[Alive_Again]

It might surprise detractors of WOF to know that as believers, they want to get it right. If something doesn't work, they want to know why. They want to know what works. No one wants to be seen as a fool for buying into a lie. If they know that have revelation in an area, and for some reason, things seem to stop, they want to know what to do to correct it, and to enter in.

• They want to know how to do "the violence" thing to enter in.
• They want to go beyond "as far as you know" in the believing department.
• They truly want to continue in the Word so they can be free.

The whole point of getting free (beyond being free) is so you can tell someone how they can be free. No one likes to see people ignorantly bound up. Those who put up "defenses" without having a listening ear will not go any farther on their journey of understanding in the area of faith and overcoming. There should be an openness.

Most WOF people aren't impressed with others pointing out people who got into the ditch on a doctrine because they're not walking after those people.

There area lot of non-WOF people who genuinely want to walk in unity, even with WOF in the areas that are correct, and themselves enter into their inheritance.

People want to lay aside the baggage of perceived movements to the left or right, and along the way, the enemy, like a roaring lion reacts to truth when it is presented. They want you to know it's a way fraught with doubts and concerns, because they are the ones sowing the seeds for them by continually pointing them out (through believers). If someone really wanted to promote unity, they might ask questions, but cease to use those who failed as examples of what is, instead of what is not.

It's time to get into unity about what we do believe. If we don't agree about something, more often than not, it's just because of the way they heard it presented (sometimes through the prism of their own faulty hearing). People need a clear presentation of truth without someone rising up in the enemy's "lion's voice" to distract away from the truth -- the freedom.

This thread should be an excellent opportunity to present things like that, but it usually denigrates into someone presenting the "bad version" of doctrine as a tool of the enemy. The spirit of accusation enters in to defile the conversation. The mixture of swine entering in keeps pearls of revelation from coming forth.

Without pointing any fingers specifically, those who don't really want to know the truth should bow out of the discussion and not distract those who want to hear a balance in WOF doctrine. That's what WOF wants also. No one wants to be self-deceived. If something falls short, we want to know it, but it wont be by accusation that anyone "gets set free".

Those guilty of this should purpose to change and not be a hindrance to those who do.

 

[Truthfrees]

did you read the Op .. ?and note who wrote it. your grabbing the wet end of the stick.the bit the dog chewed.overly defensive much?

You're right about the OP.

My apologies for the "friends" issue, and the defensiveness.

Amen to brothers and friends.

 

[Truthfrees]

Misunderstanding from my side resolved.

 

[Truthfrees]

It might surprise detractors of WOF to know that as believers, they want to get it right. If something doesn't work, they want to know why. They want to know what works. No one wants to be seen as a fool for buying into a lie. If they know that have revelation in an area, and for some reason, things seem to stop, they want to know what to do to correct it, and to enter in.

• They want to know how to do "the violence" thing to enter in.
• They want to go beyond "as far as you know" in the believing department.
• They truly want to continue in the Word so they can be free.

The whole point of getting free (beyond being free) is so you can tell someone how they can be free. No one likes to see people ignorantly bound up. Those who put up "defenses" without having a listening ear will not go any farther on their journey of understanding in the area of faith and overcoming. There should be an openness.

Most WOF people aren't impressed with others pointing out people who got into the ditch on a doctrine because they're not walking after those people.

There area lot of non-WOF people who genuinely want to walk in unity, even with WOF in the areas that are correct, and themselves enter into their inheritance.

People want to lay aside the baggage of perceived movements to the left or right, and along the way, the enemy, like a roaring lion reacts to truth when it is presented. They want you to know it's a way fraught with doubts and concerns, because they are the ones sowing the seeds for them by continually pointing them out (through believers). If someone really wanted to promote unity, they might ask questions, but cease to use those who failed as examples of what is, instead of what is not.

It's time to get into unity about what we do believe. If we don't agree about something, more often than not, it's just because of the way they heard it presented (sometimes through the prism of their own faulty hearing). People need a clear presentation of truth without someone rising up in the enemy's "lion's voice" to distract away from the truth -- the freedom.

This thread should be an excellent opportunity to present things like that, but it usually denigrates into someone presenting the "bad version" of doctrine as a tool of the enemy. The spirit of accusation enters in to defile the conversation. The mixture of swine entering in keeps pearls of revelation from coming forth.

Without pointing any fingers specifically, those who don't really want to know the truth should bow out of the discussion and not distract those who want to hear a balance in WOF doctrine. That's what WOF wants also. No one wants to be self-deceived. If something falls short, we want to know it, but it wont be by accusation that anyone "gets set free".

Those guilty of this should purpose to change and not be a hindrance to those who do.

 

[Truthfrees]

In addition to what Alive Again said:

Why do wof focus on teaching the truth about the GOSPEL, rather than discussing the error of the disengenous?

Because the Lord JESUS CHRIST told us to go into all the world and preach the GOSPEL.

IOW, spend our time preaching FOR the TRUTH, rather than preaching AGAINST the error.

QUOTE the LORD'S words, rather than the devil's.

It's not our job to follow the disingenuous around, putting out their fires.

It's our job to spread the GOSPEL because it's the power of the LORD to the salvation of everyone who believes. (Romans 1:16)

The Lord confirms the preaching of HIS words with signs following. (Mark 16:20, 1 Corinthians 2:2-5, Colossians 1:5-6 AMP)

We're told to turn away from the disingenuous and leave them alone. (2 Timothy 3:5, 3:13-14, Matthew 15:14)

 

[Alithis]

Misunderstanding from my side resolved.

sorry also

 

[now faith]

sorry also

When are mmm some people going to just admit they are W.O.F

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"revelation comes through the Holy Spirit speaking to our inner witness from the word."

SO AGAIN, as I said to begin with "Faith" is a REVELATION.

And Popular/TOXIC WoF tries to get folks WHO DON"T HAVE the inner witness - to act as though they do - i.e. Act presumptively.

Simple as that.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

"revelation comes through the Holy Spirit speaking to our inner witness from the word."

SO AGAIN, as I said to begin with "Faith" is a REVELATION.

And Popular/TOXIC WoF tries to get folks WHO DON"T HAVE the inner witness - to act as though they do - i.e. Act presumptively.

Simple as that.

I can appreciate what you're saying. Not that I agree with WOF, but I understand your position.

 

[Truthfrees]

"revelation comes through the Holy Spirit speaking to our inner witness from the word."

SO AGAIN, as I said to begin with "Faith" is a REVELATION.

And Popular/TOXIC WoF tries to get folks WHO DON"T HAVE the inner witness - to act as though they do - i.e. Act presumptively.

Simple as that.

Charles Capps teaches a lot on FAITH - what it is and what it isn't.

He says people see a promise and REALLY hope it will happen if they STEP OUT.

Or some people think FAITH is a feeling, so they step out in EMOTION.

Or some people think they can override their doubts by stepping out AGAINST all doubt.

NONE of this is FAITH.

WOF doesn't tell anyone to do any of this.

Charles Capps, Copeland, Hagin, etc, say to keep hearing the word until faith rises up, then step out.

"Act as though you do" means don't freak out over things, keep acting as though the WORD works, and get with the LORD and in HIS word to sort out with HIM what's bothering you.

IOW, don't fall apart over setbacks etc.

Hang onto the promise of the LORD, and go double up in the WORD to get your faith strengthened.

 

[Truthfrees]

Revelation doesn't necessarily bring faith.

Revelation may only bring HOPE.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing the LORD'S words (written, spoken, revealed, etc).

FAITH is knowing that you know that you know that it is ALREADY DONE.

FAITH is TOTAL absence of doubt.

Anything less than this is HOPE, presumption, etc.

DOUBT isn't necessarily a feeling.

It could be not knowing for sure this promise is for you, or that the LORD has already done it, etc.

 

[Truthfrees]

Smith Wigglesworth says to reach up and get the LORD'S faith when yours is insufficient.

That's what I do now.

I hear and hear and hear the Lord's words (scripture, anointed teaching of scripture, etc) because my inner man LOVES scripture and gets really charged up by what the Lord says HE has done for me through CHRIST JESUS.

But I decided a while back that if the LORD'S faith was available to me, I would use it instead of mine.

Mark 11:22 says to have or use the faith of GOD. (GNV YLT)

His faith never fails me.

If I have feelings of doubt I say "No way, I'm not listening to you. I'm using the Lord's faith and you can't stop the Lord's faith."

When I think about the power of the Lord's faith that I'm using, feelings of doubt crumble. How can they possibly stand up to the Lord's faith?

Just thinking about the power of the LORD'S faith causes me to know that I know that I know that IT IS DONE period !

This isn't a WOF teaching though. It's a Smith Wigglesworth teaching.

 

[Truthfrees]

"revelation comes through the Holy Spirit speaking to our inner witness from the word."

SO AGAIN, as I said to begin with "Faith" is a REVELATION.

And Popular/TOXIC WoF tries to get folks WHO DON"T HAVE the inner witness - to act as though they do - i.e. Act presumptively.

Simple as that.

From reading many of Bob Carabbio's posts, IMO he differs from WOF on this:

Bob thinks the ONLY way to know what the Lord is promising you is to get a revelation from the Lord that this promise IS for you. EG. Just because scripture promises healing, doesn't mean it's for you. The Lord may NOT want you to be healed. You can't claim healing for yourself UNLESS the LORD tells you directly that healing is for you.

WOF believe scripture makes it clear that ALL the promises of the LORD are yes and amen in CHRIST JESUS for whosoever wills.

"For as many as are the promises of God, they all find their Yes [answer] in Him [Christ]. For this reason we also utter the Amen (so be it) to God through Him [in His Person and by His agency] to the glory of God." - 2 Corinthians 1:20 AMP

"For every one of God’s promises is “Yes” in Him. Therefore, the “Amen” is also spoken through Him by us for God’s glory." - HCSB

"He carries out and fulfills all of God’s promises, no matter how many of them there are; and we have told everyone how faithful he is, giving glory to his name." - TLB

WOF believe the Holy Spirit will help you understand scripture through revelation, not contradict 2 Corinthians 1:20 by telling you this promise is for you, but that one isn't.

 

[hopeinGod]

Charles Capps teaches a lot on FAITH - what it is and what it isn't.

He says people see a promise and REALLY hope it will happen if they STEP OUT.

Or some people think FAITH is a feeling, so they step out in EMOTION.

Or some people think they can override their doubts by stepping out AGAINST all doubt.

NONE of this is FAITH.

WOF doesn't tell anyone to do any of this.

Charles Capps, Copeland, Hagin, etc, say to keep hearing the word until faith rises up, then step out.

"Act as though you do" means don't freak out over things, keep acting as though the WORD works, and get with the LORD and in HIS word to sort out with HIM what's bothering you.

IOW, don't fall apart over setbacks etc.

Hang onto the promise of the LORD, and go double up in the WORD to get your faith strengthened.

All this, and for what? To prove there exists a method that is capable of forcing God to move? Just because I want something, and even ask the Lord for it, there is no guarantee any part of the request will be filled, as if I have submitted a purchase order to heaven.

And what must I pay? Well, I'm told through this approach that I must get all my ducks in a row, confess daily until I possess -- which in the majority of cases never manifests -- and to not commit an act that would stand in the way of receiving that request. It's all about getting the method down pat, rather than cooperating with the H.G. in building inwardly the image of Christ through the work of suffering -- which cannot take place without the denial of self, as opposed to the serving of self.

The WOF folks absolutely hate the word "suffering," and most struggle with its significance in a Christian life, but it is the key to God's true intent, to change us into the image of His Son, to build in us hearts that wish not to live on bread alone. It's about character building and pressing in to know Him in the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His suffering, not grocery shopping through the claiming of entitlements 24/7.

 

[Truthfrees]

You don't have to "prove" anything.

Only believe.

These are some of the steps genuine wof take to to build their faith (believe) on the LORD'S words, OVER and against their feelings, experiences, religious programing, doubts, etc, which contradict the Lord's words.

SPIRITUAL CHOICES for life situations are:

1. You can do something similar to what was described, or

2. You can sit around, do NOTHING to feed your faith, and HOPE everything will work out despite your doubts, misunderstandings, ignorance of scripture, etc, or

3. You can choose to believe your feelings, experiences, religious training, etc, and EXPLAIN AWAY (discount, discredit, disbelieve) every good promise the LORD made to you and paid for with HIS HOLY BLOOD.

The steps provided were some of the things you do to fight for faith, rather than give in to doubt, unbelief, cessation-ism. etc.

"Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses." - 1 Timothy 6:12

Here's one more thing you can do:

"You, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit." - Jude 1:20

Whatever steps you are led by the Lord to take to build yourself up in faith in the Lord and HIS words, the bottom line is:
1. Choose to believe the Lord's words.
2. Find out from Him what steps to take to receive what HE promised.
3. Listen to good FAITH teachers as the Lord directs you to help you grow.
4. Ask the Lord WHAT HE wants you to do with what you heard.
5. Read scripture WITH the Lord, asking HIM to explain HIS words to you.

 

[Alive_Again]

ll this, and for what? To prove there exists a method that is capable of forcing God to move?

For starters, you're not forcing God to do anything. You're looking at it the wrong way. We're talking about receiving something that is already yours. It's done supernaturally, by faith. If it weren't yours, "in Christ" (a place of submission and love), then you'd have a point.

If you qualify, then it's not an issue. If you're not abiding, then you'd be trying to force God to honor His Word, when He's not obligated if you're not abiding. (I'm not referring to you btw.)

Personally, I usually try to reduce it to the simplest terms. What I know I really need. There's a lot that I could do with that I don't "need". There's also a lot of "good things" that He often does not withhold if I'm walking uprightly. Again, that is the key. It's not a "theoretical" cold thing. It's a living, walking in love by faith thing that has a certain "sight" to it that is supernatural. It comes with the abiding. Without it, it's all guesswork.

There is often a "space" of things that are allowed (good things). He'll let you do some thing or have some things, but you get a sense that it's better to not go that direction at that time. Then you get the supernatural peace and you "know" that's it's a good thing. You still have to have faith. Sometimes you just have to have faith when you spend the money you have, that you won't send yourself beyond your need/provision thing.

So if you get in the habit of keeping yourself where the fruit is flowing, then you have the guide built in, often with "space" to move in certain directions. He delights in you having desires to do things (He actually put them there.). He also delights when you ask Him to enter into to those very things. It's a Father's pleasure.

Can you picture a father driving down a street he knew a carnival was at. When you see it and you go, "Oh man! I really want to go! Can we go?! He already knew you wanted to go and was hoping you'd ask. You might not ask and go by that road 10 times before you have confidence enough to ask if you can go there with him. He was hoping you'd confidently speak forth. Sometimes you can tell on the inside that it's not the right time.

He knows what's coming down the pike and if you beyond the peace, then you can expect to know a little leanness that isn't necessary.

I'm talking "stuff" or activities, but when it comes to just believing for the promises of God in your life such as direction and overcoming love, etc., then you HAVE to stand on those promises and speak them out and believe in just the same way you would when you go down the financial paths. It's part of receiving by faith. It takes it out of the thought realm.

Just because I want something, and even ask the Lord for it, there is no guarantee any part of the request will be filled, as if I have submitted a purchase order to heaven.

We have general guidelines such as "you don't have because you don't ask", and "if you abide, you must ask what YOU will". You're looking inside for guidance that He promises to provide, so there shouldn't be too much guesswork.

And what must I pay? Well, I'm told through this approach that I must get all my ducks in a row, confess daily until I possess -- which in the majority of cases never manifests -- and to not commit an act that would stand in the way of receiving that request.

You're talking about corresponding actions of faith. You can't get around it. We're supposed to walk by faith. But it assumes a certain connection that has the guidance system built into it. We're supposed to know that at least our basic necessities will be fulfilled. Beyond that, you ascertain what His will is and you go back the peace (or lack of it).

It pleases Him not only that you ask, but that you go by the inward cues He provides.

It's all about getting the method down pat, rather than cooperating with the H.G. in building inwardly the image of Christ through the work of suffering -- which cannot take place without the denial of self, as opposed to the serving of self.

There is a certain way to move that is by faith. It's not just a "method" of religious activities, Heavenly calisthenics, or 20 pushups you have to do. It's a lifestyle of doing the things you seem to be complaining about. They're only "religious" activities when the abiding thing isn't fully happening. I definitely fall short a lot, but I know enough to be able to say that if I were consistent, I wouldn't sometimes feel like you seem to, having to "keep up" with the spiritual "Jones'". It takes care of itself though when you set aside a little time for worship and declaring and re-declaring the Word of truth over your life, as a daily base to start from.

Do you know how many times we step outside of that and literally reprogram our thinking into unbelief? It takes re-setting our direction (with our tongues/rudders) and making it a lifestyle. It's totally unnatural. That's the point! We're supposed to be doing that for each other (remind us) and receiving the same admonitions. We preach to others and it builds ourselves up. It puts us right back into the confidence realm.

The WOF folks absolutely hate the word "suffering," and most struggle with its significance in a Christian life, but it is the key to God's true intent, to change us into the image of His Son, to build in us hearts that wish not to live on bread alone.

Too many people suffer needlessly. There is a godly patience that is developed, and you can wait (expectantly) on the fulfillment of promises with patience and dignity (as He once called it). But if we're waiting around and suffering because of ignorance, then we should humble ourselves and consider revising our doctrine.

So what is it that you want? That is very telling in itself. You want fruit and grace and love and to move into what God has ordained for your life.

To be honest, when you couple the "suffering" bit (which would be correct under certain circumstances) with the "spiritual performance orientation" thing you identify WOF as being, then it points toward the wrong kind of suffering.

It's about character building and pressing in to know Him in the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His suffering, not grocery shopping through the claiming of entitlements 24/7.

I can't begin to relate to the last half of that. The whole "entitlement" thing is so bizarre. If you want His will and His kingdom in your life by His strength, with a lot of fruit and a strong faith and an overcoming love, then every promise that pertains to that you are entitled to (only by grace). The whole catch is that we abide. It's the big "IF". I personally believe if we're ok in that, we're good to absolutely expect those needs to not only be met, but for Him to be overjoyed you dared to step forward and believe them as being yours, even though you didn't "hear" anything today about it).

How many times has the Word said, "You forget" this or that? He doesn't have to tell us again. He already told us. His Word on many issues has already gone out and we're supposed to receive it like it's a firm foundation to walk on.