With All Due Respect, Mr President, that is not true

[Grizzly]

So if you look at the stimulus bill, about 35% is directed toward tax cuts. Do my Republican friends believe that at least this part of the bill will be stimulative?

 

[jamesrwright3]

So if you look at the stimulus bill, about 35% is directed toward tax cuts. Do my Republican friends believe that at least this part of the bill will be stimulative?

This bill will sitmulate ACORN. They are getting money.
$13 a week won't stimulate the overall economy.

 

[Allahuakbar]

This bill will sitmulate ACORN. They are getting money.

Source? Is this true?

$13 a week won't stimulate the overall economy.

Source?

 

[keith99]

OK. And how many economists out there agree with the stimulus?

It's not news that there are some dissenters out there. No matter what Obama does, someone is likely going to oppose it simply because they are the "loyal opposition".
Ringo

Not relevent if the quote in the OP is correct. The article is more than enough to show there is significant disagreement.

In fact if the quote is accurate you can add me to the list of those who disagree. It may be that wise government action will be the quickest and least painless way out, but far from the only.

Personally I'm torn. I doubt wise government action will happen, but some of the things I've noticed with businesses makes me wonder if their stupidity and selfisness is worse.

 

[Ringo84]

Not relevent if the quote in the OP is correct. The article is more than enough to show there is significant disagreement.

Yes, but my point is that no matter what Obama does, someone's always going to oppose his plans and actions. That's what it means to have a 'loyal opposition'.
Ringo

 

[Mystman]

This is amazing

"There is no disagreement that we need action by our government, a recovery plan that will help to jumpstart the economy."
​

— PRESIDENT-ELECT BARACK OBAMA, JANUARY 9 , 2009

With all due respect Mr. President, that is not true.
​

...To improve the economy, policy makers should focus on reforms that remove impediments to work, saving, investment and production. Lower tax rates and a reduction in the burden of government are the best ways of using fiscal policy to boost growth.
​

http://www.cato.org/special/stimulus09/alternate_version.html

Maybe I'm misreading here, but couldn't they have chosen a more appropriate Obama claim to disagree with?

Obama: "everyone agrees the government needs to execute some plan to help the ecnomy."

They: "not true! We think that the government should execute some plan to help the economy!"

Me: "uh.. isn't that what Obama said? "

Sure, what they probably mean is that these people disagree with the specific execution of the plan. But saying in a big font that you disagree with statement A, with an explanation that also includes an agreement with statement A, looks a bit.. stupid.

 

[Corey]

http://www.cato.org/special/stimulus09/alternate_version.html

The power of their FAIL is strong. Watch as Nobel-prize winning economist, professor, and columnist Paul Krugman demolishes this insipid argument.

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb5bXr7Vc2U


Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIu4Q-68SVU

 

[MichaelFJF]

There is no post. He cut and paste an article. While I do understand that passes for thought amongst some, in general independent opinions are formed after reading and processing such information.

It might have been more worthwhile, for example, if something other than a list of names were provided. If these individuals disagree, why? Do they all agree on an alternate plan or do they, as I suspect, span multiple sets of opinions.

The OP has no point and no real worth unless it contains something of individual value to characterize it from blind acceptance of someone else's opinion.

Individual opinion is not a bad thing. Independent thought is actually valuable.

LOLOL - spin at its best. Nice job.

 

[keith99]

Maybe I'm misreading here, but couldn't they have chosen a more appropriate Obama claim to disagree with?

Obama: "everyone agrees the government needs to execute some plan to help the ecnomy."

They: "not true! We think that the government should execute some plan to help the economy!"

Me: "uh.. isn't that what Obama said? "

Sure, what they probably mean is that these people disagree with the specific execution of the plan. But saying in a big font that you disagree with statement A, with an explanation that also includes an agreement with statement A, looks a bit.. stupid.

I agree in one sense. It does say they also are saying the government neds to do something.

But what they are saying is that the main thing government has to do is get out of the way and off peoples backs, as opposed to more government programs and more tax load on producers.

 

[chaz345]

So if you look at the stimulus bill, about 35% is directed toward tax cuts. Do my Republican friends believe that at least this part of the bill will be stimulative?

But a tax cut isn't at all the same as government spending, unless that is one thinks, like many on the left seem to, that it's all the government's money in the first place.

I do think that the tax cut however will be somewhat stimulative, but I'm afraid that it's too late for them to save us. Personally I think, as I've said several times over the last week or so, that rather than trying to stimilate the economy so that we can all go back to our unsustainable spending, the government needs to let it crash in as controlled a manner as possible. I think that this money that is being created/borrowed to try to stimulate would have been MUCH better spent helping to pick up the pieces after the crash, which will very likely occur anyway.

 

[Allahuakbar]

But a tax cut isn't at all the same as government spending, unless that is one thinks, like many on the left seem to, that it's all the government's money in the first place.

Can you support this claim with evidence?

 

[chaz345]

Can you support this claim with evidence?

What claim. That in my observation, it seems to me, that many on the left operate from an assumption that it's all the government's int he first place?
That is my own opinion which requires no support the last time I checked.

 

[Allahuakbar]

What claim. That in my observation, it seems to me, that many on the left operate from an assumption that it's all the government's int he first place?
That is my own opinion which requires no support the last time I checked.

Observations are based on observing something (definitional constraints). Can you produce anything to support your assertion? What and where did you observe this?

You just said you observed this. Where? Surely you're not just making things up?

 

[chaz345]

Observations are based on observing something (definitional constraints). Can you produce anything to support your assertion? What and where did you observe this?

You just said you observed this. Where? Surely you're not just making things up?

The very notion that a tax cut amounts to government spending itself contains the assumption that the money belongs to the government in the first place. That notion is one that is far more often voiced from the left.

 

[Allahuakbar]

The very notion that a tax cut amounts to government spending itself contains the assumption that the money belongs to the government in the first place. That notion is one that is far more often voiced from the left.

That is not what you said. You said...

"unless that is one thinks, like many on the left seem to, that it's all the government's money in the first place"

You said people think this. Is this true, has anyone said this to you or around you, and can you produce evidence of it. If not, you're intentionally libeling others, which is dishonest and unethical. I am asking for proof or a retraction.

 

[chaz345]

That is not what you said. You said...

"unless that is one thinks, like many on the left seem to, that it's all the government's money in the first place"

You said people think this. Is this true, has anyone said this to you or around you, and can you produce evidence of it. If not, you're intentionally libeling others, which is dishonest and unethical. I am asking for proof or a retraction.

Time for a comprehension lession. In the sentence that you quoted, what do the words "seem to" mean?

I didn't say that anyone thinks anything I said that it seems to me that they think that way. Sorry, no retraction for you.

 

[Allahuakbar]

Time for a comprehension lession. In the sentence that you quoted, what do the words "seem to" mean?

I didn't say that anyone thinks anything I said that it seems to me that they think that way. Sorry, no retraction for you.

So you observed something that led you to believe that they "seem to" think so. Where is this nebulous observation? Certainly you can provide it? It seems like you're stuck saying something that is completely untrue, but lack the fortitude to admit it.

Either you observed this, as you have claimed, or you have not. Which is it?

 

[chaz345]

So you observed something that led you to believe that they "seem to" think so. Where is this nebulous observation? Certainly you can provide it? It seems like you're stuck saying something that is completely untrue, but lack the fortitude to admit it.

Either you observed this, as you have claimed, or you have not. Which is it?

Like I just said, viewing a tax cut as being the same as government spending can only be done if one is operating from the assumption that it is the government's money in the first place. Are you honestly telling me that you have never seen a tax cut talked about basically as if it were government spending?

What do you want, a detailed log of every conversation that I've been in that lead me to my opinion?

 

[Allahuakbar]

You seem to like to accuse people of libel. Someone's still waiting for an apology from the last time you falsely accused a fellow poster of this.

Are you the same poster who claimed President Obama supported reparations, then refused to admit you made it up (likely because all African-Americans support reparations)?

Edit: Why did you not provide the whole thread? I asked for clarification of Panzer's position and he never answered. Why did you omit this? Are you being honest in providing only one post and not the thread?

 

[Allahuakbar]

Like I just said, viewing a tax cut as being the same as government spending can only be done if one is operating from the assumption that it is the government's money in the first place. Are you honestly telling me that you have never seen a tax cut talked about basically as if it were government spending?

What do you want, a detailed log of every conversation that I've been in that lead me to my opinion?

I simply want to see the data that led to your conclusion. As it is, nothing seems to exist. Is your opinion formed on data, or not?