Why Charismatic groups keep failing.

[JoabAnias]

45 minutes of denominational service trumps....
1.5-2 hours of praise, worship, and the presence of God????

Is that addressed to me?

 

[Simon_Templar]

(1 John 2: 27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you; the anointing he gave teaches you everything: you are anointed with truth, not with a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”

The people on this part of the forum say they are spirit filled. Can any of you tell me how the Holy Spirit has personally taught you about God?

Well... the Holy Spirit has taught me many things about God through the scriptures, through illustrations in daily life, through prayer etc...

By far more important, to me, is what the Holy Spirit has taught me of God by bringing me into his presence in his temple, and by bringing his presence and his temple into me.

 

[Simon_Templar]

45 minutes of denominational service trumps....
1.5-2 hours of praise, worship, and the presence of God????

You have an "Opinion" of what is going on.....being on the outside, looking in....
not on the inside, being touched by the glory of God from without....

Jesus said our yardstick is the fruit....of their faith, correct?
Philippians 3.8 good-holy-lovel;-of good report-true....

When some one does an about face and lives right, God was in the building

I'm not sure who this is addressed to, or what exactly its supposed to mean...

However, a comment that it brings to mind for me is judging people based on temporary things.
I've been in countless charismatic meetings, from retreats to revivals to church services, you name it. I have seen people have tremendous experiences, weaping and crying, laughing and rejoicing etc.

I've also seen many of those same people "cool off" and often times before long, get to the point where no sign of their initial experience remained.

As a result, I have gotten to the place where I put no stock in emotional experiences. I think they are a fine thing, and I enjoy them myself. I think they are good for people... but the truth is that emotion is passing. It is here one day and gone the next.

People who are converted, or changed by emotional experiences very often do not last because the change in them is not based on something real, it is not based on a foundation of rock.

Thus, I find the fruit that matters is not the fruit of moments in an exciting meeting, but the fruit of the Spirit over years.

I'll take a person who is loving, kind, self controled, and meek, over someone who is "on fire".

There is an interesting lesson in fire... when you set newspaper on fire it burns quickly and brightly. In an instant there is an inferno, and then just as quickly its nothing but cold ashes.
If you burn wood, it is harder to light, and the fire doesn't burn quickly, and it actually is at its hotest and burns the longest when it becomes hot coals.

 

[Giver]

I'm not sure who this is addressed to, or what exactly its supposed to mean...

However, a comment that it brings to mind for me is judging people based on temporary things.
I've been in countless charismatic meetings, from retreats to revivals to church services, you name it. I have seen people have tremendous experiences, weaping and crying, laughing and rejoicing etc.

I've also seen many of those same people "cool off" and often times before long, get to the point where no sign of their initial experience remained.

As a result, I have gotten to the place where I put no stock in emotional experiences. I think they are a fine thing, and I enjoy them myself. I think they are good for people... but the truth is that emotion is passing. It is here one day and gone the next.

People who are converted, or changed by emotional experiences very often do not last because the change in them is not based on something real, it is not based on a foundation of rock.

Thus, I find the fruit that matters is not the fruit of moments in an exciting meeting, but the fruit of the Spirit over years.

I'll take a person who is loving, kind, self controled, and meek, over someone who is "on fire".

There is an interesting lesson in fire... when you set newspaper on fire it burns quickly and brightly. In an instant there is an inferno, and then just as quickly its nothing but cold ashes.
If you burn wood, it is harder to light, and the fire doesn't burn quickly, and it actually is at its hotest and burns the longest when it becomes hot coals.

You hit on what I was trying to share when I originally started this thread.

I truly believe many people have and do expierance the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and for some it can be an emotional expierance.

But what happens more often then not is people would rather listen to man’s teachings about God, then listen to what the Holy Spirit teaches him or her. God loves and respects us so he steps back and lets people do as they wish.

My personal expierance testifies to just that. I was a person that truly believed in one’s right to defend himself, family and his country. I served five years in the US Armed forces. One day Jesus told me that we were not to hurt/harm anyone for any reason. Well by the time he told me that I had been an obedient servant of his for over a year. There was no question who it was I would believe. But imagine a protestant who believes Catholics are cannibals for believing communion is truly the body and blood of Jesus, and is told by the Holy Spirit that it is truly the body and blood of Jesus?

 

[JoabAnias]

You hit on what I was trying to share when I originally started this thread.

I truly believe many people have and do expierance the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and for some it can be an emotional expierance.

But what happens more often then not is people would rather listen to man’s teachings about God, then listen to what the Holy Spirit teaches him or her. God loves and respects us so he steps back and lets people do as they wish.

My personal expierance testifies to just that. I was a person that truly believed in one’s right to defend himself, family and his country. I served five years in the US Armed forces. One day Jesus told me that we were not to hurt/harm anyone for any reason. Well by the time he told me that I had been an obedient servant of his for over a year. There was no question who it was I would believe. But imagine a protestant who believes Catholics are cannibals for believing communion is truly the body and blood of Jesus, and is told by the Holy Spirit that it is truly the body and blood of Jesus?

The same thing happened to me when I was in the service. It seemed like to took forever to get out.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

In "Catch the Fire", there is a prophetic word about the fresh outpouring. It says that other churches need to catch on, or they will find ministry hard going. It is a revival, which began in Toronto, and which was open to all denominations. Catholics were there too. Pastor John Arnott also referred to Fr Francis McNutt's writings.

I think the CCR thrived in the nineties, but then did not so much Catch the Fire, and now they are struggling a bit. I have not heard a prophetic word or word of knowledge after worship there for years. But still in private prayer in the groups.

The CCR needs Catch the Fire, perhaps read Catch the Fire by Guy Chevreau, and listen to John Arnott preach and Randy Clark, Will Hart, Jamie Galloway, Leif Hetland, Gary Oates or Rodney Hogue...

 

[Giver]

In "Catch the Fire", there is a prophetic word about the fresh outpouring. It says that other churches need to catch on, or they will find ministry hard going. It is a revival, which began in Toronto, and which was open to all denominations. Catholics were there too. Pastor John Arnott also referred to Fr Francis McNutt's writings.

I think the CCR thrived in the nineties, but then did not so much Catch the Fire, and now they are struggling a bit. I have not heard a prophetic word or word of knowledge after worship there for years. But still in private prayer in the groups.

The CCR needs Catch the Fire, perhaps read Catch the Fire by Guy Chevreau, and listen to John Arnott preach and Randy Clark, Will Hart, Jamie Galloway, Leif Hetland, Gary Oates or Rodney Hogue...

The following is what is needed.

(John 14:21-23) “Whoever holds to my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me; and whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I shall love him and reveal myself to him.' Judas –not Judas Iscariot – said to him, ‘Lord, what has happened that you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world? Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

 

[Giver]

They keep failing because you Catholics hail to the authority of a MAN, not God. The Pope represents the evil power of the false priests, he does not represent God. Death to the Papacy!

I am not Catholic, and because I am not a Catholic I am not allowed to bring an anti Catholic message to this forum.

But you need to know that Jesus gave authority to the Church. If the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus established, and I believe it along with the Orthodox Church, is the Church Jesus established, and because of this has the authority given to God’s Church by Jesus?

This means the people in the Catholic Church are following God, and not man.

 

[Giver]

Lol when did Jesus give authority to Emperor Constantine of Rome? I think I missed the part when Jesus was still physically here on Earth in 380 A.D. Catholics follow the authority passed down from the Roman Empire, not the Authority of of Jesus Christ.

You need to start a thread in a different forum it you want to discuss what you are posting.

When a Mod sees your post you will be notified.

 

[Christian Soldier 777]

Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Christ did not come to make us Judges, but rather Lovers. He said," they will know you by your love." We are to love the sinner. We are sinners, saved by grace, but still sinners. Once you are saved sin can still enter into your life. This will affect your relationship with God, but not your salvation. We must always remember Ephesians 2:8," For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God." How could you lose something you did nothing to gain?

 

[Giver]

Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Christ did not come to make us Judges, but rather Lovers. He said," they will know you by your love." We are to love the sinner. We are sinners, saved by grace, but still sinners. Once you are saved sin can still enter into your life. This will affect your relationship with God, but not your salvation. We must always remember Ephesians 2:8," For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God." How could you lose something you did nothing to gain?

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work”

(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”

 

[Bob Carabbio]

The late '60s and early to mid '70s were a time of extraordinary WORLD WIDE Outpouring of the Holy Spirit - PRIMARILY on Church groups that were NOT "Fundamentalist" or "Evangelical", and millions of folks around the world who had been "Denominational Christians" actually came face to face with the Lord and became REALLY saved, and filled with the holy Spirit. ANd SPiritual HUNGER was GREAT during those years - when you held a Bible study, folks would soak it up for HOURS, and there was a LOT of spiritual activity, miracles, healings, deliverance from demonization - you name it, and it was going on. It was called the "Charismatic outpouring", and it was a God-sent time of revival.

But all revivals END - and leave their deposit. IN the '80s all sorts of "Chraismatic Groups" were desperately trying to "Keep it going" trying to maintain the format, and the presence of the Holy Spirit - AFTER He'd pulled back, and NO LONGER effected our consciousness with His manifest presence, as it HAD BEEN during the '70s.

TODAY - there are churches that are flourishing, and churches that aren't. the ones that DON'T, offer nothing of value to their congregations who "vote with their feet".

 

[Giver]

The late '60s and early to mid '70s were a time of extraordinary WORLD WIDE Outpouring of the Holy Spirit - PRIMARILY on Church groups that were NOT "Fundamentalist" or "Evangelical", and millions of folks around the world who had been "Denominational Christians" actually came face to face with the Lord and became REALLY saved, and filled with the holy Spirit. ANd SPiritual HUNGER was GREAT during those years - when you held a Bible study, folks would soak it up for HOURS, and there was a LOT of spiritual activity, miracles, healings, deliverance from demonization - you name it, and it was going on. It was called the "Charismatic outpouring", and it was a God-sent time of revival.

But all revivals END - and leave their deposit. IN the '80s all sorts of "Chraismatic Groups" were desperately trying to "Keep it going" trying to maintain the format, and the presence of the Holy Spirit - AFTER He'd pulled back, and NO LONGER effected our consciousness with His manifest presence, as it HAD BEEN during the '70s.

TODAY - there are churches that are flourishing, and churches that aren't. the ones that DON'T, offer nothing of value to their congregations who "vote with their feet".

You gave people a history lesson, but did not touch on why the Spirit left people.

 

[jessehove04]

Jesus knows the answer, Jesus is the way

 

[Giver]

(Mark 4:15-20) “What the sower is sowing is the word. Those on the edge of the path where the word is sown are people who have no sooner heard it then Satan comes and carries away the word that was sown in them. Similarly, those who receive the seed on patches of rock are people who, when first they hear the word, welcome it at once with joy. But the worries of this world the lure of riches and all the other passions come in to choke the word, and so it produces nothing. And there are those who have received the seed in rich soil: they hear the word and accept it and yield a harvest, thirty and sixty and a hundred fold.”

 

[JesusHungry]

What scripture says: " If Satan is invited in the Holy Spirit will leave." ?

 

[Christian Soldier 777]

Not quite sure what your saying? Are you in agreement with me or not? Are you saying that once you became a Christian. You no longer sinned? I tell you that everyone who judges someone sins, Matthew 7:2 "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." These are not my words, but our Savior's words. Read Romans 7:14-25. God Bless †

 

[Giver]

Not quite sure what your saying? Are you in agreement with me or not? Are you saying that once you became a Christian. You no longer sinned? I tell you that everyone who judges someone sins, Matthew 7:2 "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." These are not my words, but our Savior's words. Read Romans 7:14-25. God Bless †

I don’t believe you were addressing me, but thought I would give you some insight on how one is able to never sin again.

Paul in Romans seven was tell us just how impossible it is to not sin, with out God’s help.

Paul in Romans eight tells us how one defeats Satan/sin.

(Romans 8: 3-4) “he did this in order the Law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the spirit dictates.”

 

[JesusHungry]

OP: Please supply a scripture quote to support your expressed assertion: " If Satan is invited in the Holy Spirit will leave." ?

 

[Giver]

OP: Please supply a scripture quote to support your expressed assertion: " If Satan is invited in the Holy Spirit will leave." ?

(James 4: 7) “ Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”

(1 John 3:9) “No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

(1 John 3: 5 - 6) “ Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”