What the Charismatics have to deal with.

[brodav9@thicket]

For the most part Charismatics who are faithful and true disciples, are a threat to the kingdom of darkness. Every time the world, and even Christians see a negative or fake thing, ( especially covetous ministry) it brings reproach, name calling, and disinterest and a happy devil. There are conservative full bible believing Holy Spirit filled soldiers for the kingdom of God who understand the world will hate them and their Christ. Yet still they continue to be a hope and love to all mankind as well as prayer warriors. Their revival is not just coming--it is here always through Jesus.

 

[brodav9@thicket]

I feel like crying-- I finally got to tell the world how I feel thank you forum-- now I am going to cry.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

What "hate" have you experienced?

 

[Blade]

Amen.. I remember Hagin talking about something like this and how in over 60y up to that very day he was talking he has been talked about the faith ministry has been talked about yet he has never talked like that about anyone. He said they could say I killed my grand mother but I would not deny it just keep praising HIm. He never touched it. Then being asked why teach so much much on faith a preacher asked him. We can't be saved with out faith for its by grace through faith. We can't walk as believers without faith for we walk by faith not sight. We can't live for God with out faith for we live by faith. We can't get our prayers heard nor answered with out faith. When we pray believe we receive them and we shall have them. You can't please God go to heaven with out faith. With out faith its impossible to please Him.

Now I don't always agree with what this or that preachers says but.. faith... does not get talked about preached about enough nor on any forum I am on. So divide so much confusion on may forums. Everything here about faith is written.

 

[hislegacy]

n

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

For the most part Charismatics who are faithful and true disciples, are a threat to the kingdom of darkness. Every time the world, and even Christians see a negative or fake thing, ( especially covetous ministry) it brings reproach, name calling, and disinterest and a happy devil. There are conservative full bible believing Holy Spirit filled soldiers for the kingdom of God who understand the world will hate them and their Christ. Yet still they continue to be a hope and love to all mankind as well as prayer warriors. Their revival is not just coming--it is here always through Jesus.

The current Charismatic movement is actually nothing like what started with Dennis Bennett in the early 1960s. If you go back to reading his book "Nine O'Clock In The Morning" you can get a glimpse of what really happened. But none of us really know what happened, because none of us were there to be eye witnesses of what the original Charismatic movement was all about. What we have today is a copy of several successive copies through a number of generations, and the original vision that came about through years of prayer for revival as largely died with the original ones who were there at the start and who experienced it in its true form. This why we have Charismatics who are in name but without the original cutting edge that transformed many of our traditional churches in the early 1960s.

 

[Pioneer3mm]

what started with Dennis Bennett in the early 1960s. If you go back to reading his book..

My experience/learning..about spiritual gifts started in 1970s..
- when I read his book.
- 'The Holy Spirit & You'

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

My experience/learning..about spiritual gifts started in 1970s..
- when I read his book.
- 'The Holy Spirit & You'

What I am learning now after all these years of knowing about the ministry of the Holy Spirit, is that if I am to see the Holy Spirit really working in my church, I need to spend extended times in prayer and waiting on God through meditation in His Word until the Holy Spirit falls on me, even though it may take weeks, months, or even years for that to happen. I have learned that there are no short cuts. I have read all the books abut the Holy Spirit, but knowing about Him is not enough, I need to spend time with God Himself in private prayer and seeking Him until He makes His will known to me.

Guy Bevington, a Methodist Holiness evangelist would fast and pray until he got a vision showing him what God wanted to do in a particular place. When he acted on that vision, souls got saved and healed. At one point, he got into a hollow log in the woods and fasted and prayed for three weeks, and he started to get hungry, yet the vision had not come, so he persisted in prayer and was fed by squirrels (which never appeared again after he completed his time in the log), Then he got the vision of the church door opening to him. Then we went and preached to the people and had a major revival. This was a man who persisted in prayer until God told him exactly what to do, so it is no wonder that souls got saved and healed through his ministry,

We want God to do things straight away, and then wonder why our church services remain dead.

 

[Pioneer3mm]

the original vision that came about through years of prayer for revival as largely died with the original ones who were there at the start and who experienced it in its true form

Good point.
--
'Revival/Renewal Movements'
- After the first generation, it becomes another establishment.
- The focus/emphasis changes..vision, commitment, etc..
- in Christian history.

 

[ARBITER01]

Good point.
--
'Revival/Renewal Movements'
- After the first generation, it becomes another establishment.
- The focus/emphasis changes..vision, commitment, etc..
- in Christian history.

It's actually getting worse nowadays.

People might want an outpouring, and even pray for it, but just as soon as The Holy Spirit starts showing up, everyone jumps the gun and claims their church is having some sort of a revival.

Outpourings are birthed from prevailing and perseverance in prayer, just like it says in Acts. The presence of The Holy Spirit is just the start, we want to continue in that prayer until the power of The Holy Spirit shows up performing work. A lot of people just don't know the difference in this.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

It's actually getting worse nowadays.

People might want an outpouring, and even pray for it, but just as soon as The Holy Spirit starts showing up, everyone jumps the gun and claims their church is having some sort of a revival.

Outpourings are birthed from prevailing and perseverance in prayer, just like it says in Acts. The presence of The Holy Spirit is just the start, we want to continue in that prayer until the power of The Holy Spirit shows up performing work. A lot of people just don't know the difference in this.

James says that we have not because we ask not. What this means is that not many people are prepared to do the hard yards of persistent prayer until the Holy Spirit falls. Also, James says that we do not have it because we ask amiss, to consume it on our own lusts. What this means is that people demand that the Holy Spirit falls on their church, and will not accept when the Holy Spirit falls on the church down the road When we get to the stage where we have such a burden and desire that the Holy Spirit will fall, that we don't care where He falls as long as He does. How do we know, as we have prayed for revival, that the Asbury revival is not a result of our prayers? Or the Brownsville revival? Many people who have prayed years for revival refused to accept the Brownsville revival, because (1) it didn't happen in their church or denomination, and (2) it didn't happen the way they thought it should happen, even though it would have happened the way God decided it would happen. When people make demands on God to do things the way they think He should, His response is: "Yeah...right".

 

[Pioneer3mm]

Revivals started..
- with a few people..who were broken..
- praying, seeking & waiting on God.
They went through criticism, opposition from establishments..
- often, becoming outcasts.
- That is why..many people were not interested..
- in Christian history.
---
There are stories..
- 'unknown' Christians who were praying, seeking..for years..
- before the revival/spiritual awakening.
---
I am working on the book project.
'Revivals/Spiritual Awakening & Mission in Christian History'

 

[jiminpa]

The current Charismatic movement is actually nothing like what started with Dennis Bennett in the early 1960s. If you go back to reading his book "Nine O'Clock In The Morning" you can get a glimpse of what really happened. But none of us really know what happened, because none of us were there to be eye witnesses of what the original Charismatic movement was all about. What we have today is a copy of several successive copies through a number of generations, and the original vision that came about through years of prayer for revival as largely died with the original ones who were there at the start and who experienced it in its true form. This why we have Charismatics who are in name but without the original cutting edge that transformed many of our traditional churches in the early 1960s.

Or maybe, what we have are Christians who opened their Bibles and listened to the Holy Spirit and acted on those things. Acts that you seem to have no end of criticism for. Be careful Who it is you are criticizing, it may not be who you think it is, (capitalization intended).

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Or maybe, what we have are Christians who opened their Bibles and listened to the Holy Spirit and acted on those things. Acts that you seem to have no end of criticism for. Be careful Who it is you are criticizing, it may not be who you think it is, (capitalization intended).

I have no criticism for any move of the Spirit that produces holiness of living, and unconverted people turning to Christ. The Holy Spirit's mission is to make disciples for Christ, and all His gifts and ministries are directed towards His mission. John tells us not to believe every spirit but to test them to determine whether they come from God or not.

I have been in Pentecostal meetings where the Holy Spirit has fallen and some of the hardest people have gone on their knees sobbing and getting right with God. I have no argument about that. Problem is that these type of meetings are very few and far between.

I have been in other Pentecostal meetings where people have shaken, fallen down, and others slithering around the floor like snakes. Holiness is not emphasised, nor have any unconverted person turned to Christ. You would think that if these things are the power of the Holy Spirit, that there would be souls won to Christ in these meetings. But no. And it seems that those who are running these services don't seem to know the difference between manifestation of the Holy Spirit and that of demons in their meetings. I told one pastor about a woman groaning and slithering around the floor like a snake that she needed deliverance, but he wouldn't believe me. He was convinced that she was under the power of the Holy Spirit.

I was trained as a young person under a very strict Pentecostal pastor who was a man of the Word and prayer. He knew the difference between the Holy Spirit and other spirits, and he was quick to deal with any spirit not of God that manifested in his meetings. If a woman started writhing around the floor like a snake in his meetings, he would cast the demon out of her right away.

Although I am totally supportive of the gifts of the Spirit in our meetings, and everyone needs to seek and wait on God to receive the appropriate gifts for that person, we need to be sober and vigilant in prayer and meditation in God's Word to know the difference between the Holy Spirit manifesting the gifts, and other spirits manifesting counterfeits. Only a really prayerful person who knows God through His Word and recognises His voice, is able to tell the difference.

 

[Blade]

What comes to mind " Do not quench the Spirit. Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all; hold on to what is good, reject every kind of evil.

Reading just here the sweet sweet holy Spirit has to follow mans rules. He is being told how to move. Its based on so many times on what we learned. All that does is we only see believe what some man/woman believed. Many jump to "its a demon not of God". When so many times its someone young in the lord never experienced anything and run with feelings and emotions. Take quakers when God moved they would start to shake yet some call that .. take a guess "demon". All you can say is.. praise God its not but.

Not sure how to say it but maybe I have been blessed or not blessed to see people roaming around like a snakes or the like. Me seeing this would not jump to "its a demon". I would do like I always try to do is...like one day walking with wife in Glendale Calf I noticed this man YELLING at all the people going into this movie theater. He was a Christian. I said "Father is he of you?" God said "if He is not against me he is for me" In that .. haha how He can say so much.. anyway I knew that is not something Christ would do yet he was not against Christs.

See the "snake" what's your first thought? Yeah has to be evil.. hello Satan serpent. Like Satan red horns pitch fork. Not saying its not but blindly jumping to evil. I know powerful men women of God.. OF GOD would not talk in a good light about two grand parents that only had a bible study. things like "they see demons in everything". Those two grand parents I have never seen so much power of God in my life. The gifts always were there. You had a need she prayed by going right to the word praying it and it happened. One of SO many.. they were praying for me I was 15 or so and said "I see you working with wood" and said allot more. Me? NO WAY! Yet 5+ years later working in Insurance lost my job and this man from Church told me to be at this address.. it was construction.. got into finish work blah blah blah. Strange how I have free will yet God knew already.

Those other preachers that allowed the holy Spirit to flow were spot on when saying those grand parents and those that believed like them saw demons in everything (their words) and were spot on. Those grand parents could say about those preachers they do not see or understand and were spot on. So yeah we make the rules.. and we will back it up by the word "the only spirit only moves like". For some you just jump or run "demon". How He does it.. I know two young girls baptized in a Catholic Church that does not believe in the gifts and what not. Yet my best friends sister comes running in the house telling her mom how her friend when she came out of the water was speaking in tongues.

Do you know how many believers know that is NOT of God? Someone waves their coat around people fall "demon". So for me I can't test the spirits based on my own personal belief. Most can not back up "God does not move like that" because there is no verse for that. One has to take scripture out of context. Were HUMAN. That's what He uses. Think He uses works through you no? NO one here is a expert on this. Goes back to the start.. quench not the spirit.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What comes to mind " Do not quench the Spirit. Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all; hold on to what is good, reject every kind of evil.

Reading just here the sweet sweet holy Spirit has to follow mans rules. He is being told how to move. Its based on so many times on what we learned. All that does is we only see believe what some man/woman believed. Many jump to "its a demon not of God". When so many times its someone young in the lord never experienced anything and run with feelings and emotions. Take quakers when God moved they would start to shake yet some call that .. take a guess "demon". All you can say is.. praise God its not but.

Not sure how to say it but maybe I have been blessed or not blessed to see people roaming around like a snakes or the like. Me seeing this would not jump to "its a demon". I would do like I always try to do is...like one day walking with wife in Glendale Calf I noticed this man YELLING at all the people going into this movie theater. He was a Christian. I said "Father is he of you?" God said "if He is not against me he is for me" In that .. haha how He can say so much.. anyway I knew that is not something Christ would do yet he was not against Christs.

See the "snake" what's your first thought? Yeah has to be evil.. hello Satan serpent. Like Satan red horns pitch fork. Not saying its not but blindly jumping to evil. I know powerful men women of God.. OF GOD would not talk in a good light about two grand parents that only had a bible study. things like "they see demons in everything". Those two grand parents I have never seen so much power of God in my life. The gifts always were there. You had a need she prayed by going right to the word praying it and it happened. One of SO many.. they were praying for me I was 15 or so and said "I see you working with wood" and said allot more. Me? NO WAY! Yet 5+ years later working in Insurance lost my job and this man from Church told me to be at this address.. it was construction.. got into finish work blah blah blah. Strange how I have free will yet God knew already.

Those other preachers that allowed the holy Spirit to flow were spot on when saying those grand parents and those that believed like them saw demons in everything (their words) and were spot on. Those grand parents could say about those preachers they do not see or understand and were spot on. So yeah we make the rules.. and we will back it up by the word "the only spirit only moves like". For some you just jump or run "demon". How He does it.. I know two young girls baptized in a Catholic Church that does not believe in the gifts and what not. Yet my best friends sister comes running in the house telling her mom how her friend when she came out of the water was speaking in tongues.

Do you know how many believers know that is NOT of God? Someone waves their coat around people fall "demon". So for me I can't test the spirits based on my own personal belief. Most can not back up "God does not move like that" because there is no verse for that. One has to take scripture out of context. Were HUMAN. That's what He uses. Think He uses works through you no? NO one here is a expert on this. Goes back to the start.. quench not the spirit.

If you are on the preaching roster at your church, you can use this post as your next sermon! Mind you, some of my posts could also be used as a sermon as well, so that makes two of us!

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The current Charismatic movement is actually nothing like what started with Dennis Bennett in the early 1960s. If you go back to reading his book "Nine O'Clock In The Morning" you can get a glimpse of what really happened. But none of us really know what happened, because none of us were there to be eye witnesses of what the original Charismatic movement was all about. What we have today is a copy of several successive copies through a number of generations, and the original vision that came about through years of prayer for revival as largely died with the original ones who were there at the start and who experienced it in its true form. This why we have Charismatics who are in name but without the original cutting edge that transformed many of our traditional churches in the early 1960s.

Well, I was kind of there.... but not until 1971 when I was saved. We saw a lot of wonderful miracles occur and we were just teens who came in during the Jesus movement of that day. I recall going to the Charismatic Convention at the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary. It was either late 1971 or maybe Spring of 72. Demons were being cast out in mass deliverance sessions. Derek Prince was there teaching and manifesting gifts. I went into service in 72 and was stationed in Minot ND. We went to a Christian Missionary Alliance church pastored by Bill Putnam. There were signs and wonders at that church to the point where it was overflowing. I belonged to a "Christian House" started and maintained by young believers. Later, we lived a few miles from Heritage USA and they had many teachers and preachers come in from all over. Kenneth Hagin was there. I especially remember the praise and worship. Sad ending to that place. Miss it much.
Lots more. But one thing I remember, or rather in retrospect, there was not a lot of good teaching. It was more signs, wonders, praise, and worship. Not finding fault here... but this led to much criticism and a lack of maturity in those young ones.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

What "hate" have you experienced?

Believers are hated and persecuted for three reasons. The name of Jesus. The Word of God. Righteousness.

We are seeing this spread across the country:

Luke 6:22 KJV
22. Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

Matthew 5:10-11 KJV
10. Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Matthew 13:20-21 KJV
20. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21. Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Mark 13:13 KJV
13. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

We have found that you can be a church goer, a religious person, a societal person... they are fine with all that.
But the minute you mention Jesus, the blood of Jesus, or you start quoting scripture, or you behave in a righteous way and your actions shame others... then they will hate you. And yes, it is hate. One aspect of hate means to prefer one person or thing over another. So if people choose others and prefer the company of others, that is an expression of hate. We endure that here on CF all the time. Outsiders come in and revile us, call us names, insult us, accuse us falsely, even report us to harm us. That is hate, and expressions of hate.

Preferring one over another is a form or expression of hate:

Matthew 6:24 KJV
24. No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

We must choose who we will serve. You will hate one and love serve the other.

Luke 14:26 KJV
26. If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Of course Jesus is talking about preference here. If forced to choose between Jesus and your family, then you must go with the Lord. Hate here is expressed as preferring one over another - not hate as in animosity or malice.

So when people prefer others over you, and exclude you, speak against you, or laugh at you... that is hate. And we are seeing a lot of that today.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have come across the best study of 1 Corinthians 14 by a highly respected Bible teacher. I think it is well worth including in this thread. It is securely based in what 1 Corinthians 14 is actually saying. He gives some interesting insights into one or two of the difficult verses, and he fully supports women ministry and provides good proof of it. It is well worth viewing:

 

[NBB]

I have seen good women ministers backed up with miracles, for me there is no doubt they can be ministers.