What is left but mockery?

[Nithavela]

General question. What is there left on this forum to do other than mocking those that disagree with you?

The battle lines are drawn, and have been for at least a decade.

In the ethics forum, it's pro life vs. pro choice, gay marriage defenders versus traditional marriage defenders and pro free love versus pro sexual morality.

In the politics forum, it's liberals versus conservatives, democrats versus republicans and pro-Trump versus anti-Trump.

In the news forum, it's just like the politics forum, with tolerance for islam and gun rights thrown into the mix, unless some person dies in a preventable desaster, where everyone claims sadness and then moves on to use it for his or her favorite talking point.

And in the Science and Evolution forums, it's all about evolution versus creation, global warming versus global warming scepticism and (insanely enough) flat earth versus round earth.

When has anyone on this forum learned anything, or changed his opinion, or even learned a new and exciting point to support his existing views? Rarely, I think.

So really, what is left to do on this forum other than feeling superior to the people on the other side of your ideological barbed wire?

 

[Moral Orel]

The most vocal people are going to be the most stubborn and least willing to learn anything, that's why there's an impression that no one learns anything, because those are the people you hear from the most. I, for one, have learned lots from all the different sections of the forums. I didn't know squat about evolution before I came here, now I know lots. Even in the politics/news sections, I've learned a lot about history, and it keeps me up to date on current events.

When I lurk, I learn. And I think there are plenty of lurkers out there who don't post anything because they know that they don't know any better about whatever given subject, but they still soak up the knowledge.

There are some folks who particularly enjoy posting false information. And if it wasn't for honest, intelligent people posting responses, a lot of lurkers would walk away not knowing any better.

tl;dr version: I've learned and changed my views plenty, I can't believe I'm the only one.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Yes, the lurkers are often the audience. Pitch your message and facts at them, and try not to get too mired in the empty mockery.

 

[Rajni]

What also hinders learning and understanding on here is when presumably serious questions are posted in areas of the forum where those best qualified to answer them are not allowed to post.

For example, when a question about why Muslims do such-and-such is posted in a Christians-Only area, where Muslims wouldn't be allowed to enlighten the questioner.

If one honestly wants to know the answer to something from those who would actually know the answer to that something, why post where it will just be an echo-chamber of agreement among all those biased against what that knowledge would reveal?

 

[essentialsaltes]

If one honestly wants to know the answer to something from those who would actually know the answer to that something, why post where it will just be an echo-chamber of agreement among all those biased against what that knowledge would reveal?

You may have answered your own question. In some cases, they don't honestly want to know.

 

[JCFantasy23]

I've learned and changed views over the years on this forum.

I don't see the disagreement camps as a reason to mock, but people are drawn to debate, disagreements and drama more than anything else, it's just how people are. A lot aren't going into the debates to be open minded, they are just enjoying the debating part itself.

 

[Cearbhall]

I can't say I agree with you. I've changed my mind about big things before, and I think most other people have, too. Hopefully everyone is seeking to constantly learn more about the world and about why other people think what they do.

 

[Armoured]

General question. What is there left on this forum to do other than mocking those that disagree with you?

The battle lines are drawn, and have been for at least a decade.

In the ethics forum, it's pro life vs. pro choice, gay marriage defenders versus traditional marriage defenders and pro free love versus pro sexual morality.

In the politics forum, it's liberals versus conservatives, democrats versus republicans and pro-Trump versus anti-Trump.

In the news forum, it's just like the politics forum, with tolerance for islam and gun rights thrown into the mix, unless some person dies in a preventable desaster, where everyone claims sadness and then moves on to use it for his or her favorite talking point.

And in the Science and Evolution forums, it's all about evolution versus creation, global warming versus global warming scepticism and (insanely enough) flat earth versus round earth.

When has anyone on this forum learned anything, or changed his opinion, or even learned a new and exciting point to support his existing views? Rarely, I think.

So really, what is left to do on this forum other than feeling superior to the people on the other side of your ideological barbed wire?

I feel your frustration, but I genuinely believe that I have grown spiritually and mentally through involvement on this forum. And while you might not seem to make much headway with the vocal Usual Suspects, remember there are lurkers watching, who may be on the fence about an issue and be swayed by your arguments. The're easy to forget, but they're there. I've even been messaged by a couple of them to thank me for my comments. I've even had moments (brief and rare as they may be) where I've been able to teach someone something, or even get them to change position in open thread! It does happen.

It's also a great venue for exposure to ideas you may otherwise never have encountered. Not necessarily good ideas, mind you, but it's good to have an understanding of the different sides in any issue. There's value talking to people with opinions you may never encounter in day to day life.

Failing any of the above, if you maintain the highest standard of critical analysis and thought, it keeps you sharp for other aspects of your life. If you develop the tools for evidence based practice here, they'll make you a better person in private and professional life. And lastly, you may not shut down the Usual Suspects with your "facts" and "evidence", but you're gunna pwn your racist drunk uncle next thanksgiving!

 

[HannahT]

When has anyone on this forum learned anything, or changed his opinion, or even learned a new and exciting point to support his existing views? Rarely, I think.

So really, what is left to do on this forum other than feeling superior to the people on the other side of your ideological barbed wire?

I don't know. I've seen some softening of some towards others on the other side. That's NOT to say they agree, but they tend not to have to be so ugly about it anymore. I found it normally starts with some common ground, or unexpected empathy towards something.

I have been able to learn aspects of why people think they way they do on both sides. Many times from discussion you find out WHY they may tend to favor one side to the other by their own personal experiences. It helps to learn how people tick as the saying goes.

Quite frankly, I believe the world is better when you have healthy points of view going in both directions. The world tends to accomplish more, and that includes being at peace with a circumstance where no matter which direction you go...it won't be good. Everyone has their bias towards certain issues, and sometimes there just is no good answer.

I try not to pay too much attention to the extreme ideologies on either side - not that I always accomplish that goal lol. Majority of the time they can't be rational, and if all they have in their arsenal is name calling and silly accusations? (Shrugs) Move on to those with substance - on either side. It makes it a more interesting, and helps with learning curves you are less familiar with. Trying to debate with extreme points of view is like banging your head against the wall. They are too narrow minded to go past their point of view. I get more out of the conversation even towards an individual that I may not agree with compared to those that can't get past their ideology. Life is custom, and ideology keeps people boxed in. I couldn't handle that myself, because it is so suffocating.

I tend to agree with one side on a certain issue, and the other side in separate issue. I tend to bend to the middle so maybe that's why. There is good and ugly towards on both views. I don't like to be boxed in. I've learned quite a bit.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

General question. What is there left on this forum to do other than mocking those that disagree with you?

The battle lines are drawn, and have been for at least a decade.

In the ethics forum, it's pro life vs. pro choice, gay marriage defenders versus traditional marriage defenders and pro free love versus pro sexual morality.

In the politics forum, it's liberals versus conservatives, democrats versus republicans and pro-Trump versus anti-Trump.

In the news forum, it's just like the politics forum, with tolerance for islam and gun rights thrown into the mix, unless some person dies in a preventable desaster, where everyone claims sadness and then moves on to use it for his or her favorite talking point.

And in the Science and Evolution forums, it's all about evolution versus creation, global warming versus global warming scepticism and (insanely enough) flat earth versus round earth.

When has anyone on this forum learned anything, or changed his opinion, or even learned a new and exciting point to support his existing views? Rarely, I think.

So really, what is left to do on this forum other than feeling superior to the people on the other side of your ideological barbed wire?

Even in anonymity, one's ego still reigns.

Those issues you listed go much further than simple disagreement, or narcissism. It is a serious intellectual virus. A psychological paradigm it is that blinds people, and deceives them into believing they are open minded, but correct.

For starters, it is appalling to me as someone who has been in academia to see people so willingly abdicate their intellectual freedom in exchange for laboratory coats who tell them what to think. They are humans capable of lies and deceit as well as powerfully useful knowledge. But, they are human - endowed with the same ego (if not much more.) I would much rather disagreement come from individual philosophy and thorough consideration than a status quo formula spoon fed - even if you are also an academic. There is a large difference between an open mind, and ignoring fundamentals to defend a position. Religion is not immune to this.

In my opinion, everyone is a genius, but that genius is hidden behind a veil of false security, and persuasive theory. It retards us. So much so, that it prevents people from using common sense, and understanding a phenomenon on a fundamental basis.

This happens in all disciplines, unfortunately: politics, science, literature religion, and et cetera.

There is nothing that can be done except to give in, and relent. In other words, stop the "debate" by giving the other party what they seek.

Usually, that means saying you are wrong - and the catch to that is that is a hard pill to swallow for some people. And, it also increases the hauteur of the opponent.


The most important thing is to know that YOU know what is true and what isnt. Then, confidently entertain every single thing possible without necessarily accepting it. And, if a "consensus" berate and disagree with you, meditate on your own knowledge, consider the alleged exposed flaws in your argument, and move on to a different party that is not interested in protecting their own intellectual security blankets despite (at times blatant) error.

Entertaining everything keeps you humble in case you are, in fact, wrong. That way, you won't be a statistical lemming following trends that are more fleeting than a breeze.


I say this as someone who has been in academia, ridiculed people who I thought were ridiculously ignorant of mathematics (my field,) only to find out some years later that the people I dismissed were on to something, or downright correct. It is embarrassing to confront that - especially when you think about THE PROGRESS you neglected by deigning to listen to a different perspective, whIle remaining dogged in your own ideas.

 

[pat34lee]

Even if you are on the correct side from the beginning, there are always new facts to learn. And the ones to reach, as has been said here, are not the opponents primarily, but those still learning. There is still a chance with some opponents though.

 

[Rob84]

That's not just this forum, it's people in general. The loudest people will always be heard, typically surround themselves with people that agree with them, and quite honestly go around looking for the same debates.

If you focus on that, you will never grow yourself. Have to learn to say what you want to say and take the opinions of the peanut gallery for what they are

 

[W2L]

General question. What is there left on this forum to do other than mocking those that disagree with you?

The battle lines are drawn, and have been for at least a decade.

In the ethics forum, it's pro life vs. pro choice, gay marriage defenders versus traditional marriage defenders and pro free love versus pro sexual morality.

In the politics forum, it's liberals versus conservatives, democrats versus republicans and pro-Trump versus anti-Trump.

In the news forum, it's just like the politics forum, with tolerance for islam and gun rights thrown into the mix, unless some person dies in a preventable desaster, where everyone claims sadness and then moves on to use it for his or her favorite talking point.

And in the Science and Evolution forums, it's all about evolution versus creation, global warming versus global warming scepticism and (insanely enough) flat earth versus round earth.

When has anyone on this forum learned anything, or changed his opinion, or even learned a new and exciting point to support his existing views? Rarely, I think.

So really, what is left to do on this forum other than feeling superior to the people on the other side of your ideological barbed wire?

I agree. Im trying to avoid most debate. I wished there were more healthy fellowship and less debate.

 

[Rajni]

We need more hug threads. Maybe I'll start one, though I think there might already be one around here somewhere...

 

[Rajni]

We need more hug threads. Maybe I'll start one, though I think there might already be one around here somewhere...

Actually, never mind, there are already quite a few, lol!