Western culture sustainibility

[Larniavc]

Its a very one-sided view.

BTW, most white nations had no exotic colonies, ever.

I didn’t say they did. It was my ancestors, the French, Dutch and to a lesser extent the Portuguese.

All white, Christian patriarchies that rampaged through the world breaking the Prime Directive for profit.

 

[Estrid]

The world has had Christ for two thousand years. Doesn’t seem a good track record.

Maybe we deal with things our self.

That's what wexe always done.

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

Your whole post is unresponsive.

Everything after the first " if" is what you make up
about me.

Youre unable to cope with my question about how an
act of kindness is a sin, so you change the subject.
And again look to make my responsibility.

Let it go, I've seen what there is to see.
.

You are looking at the behavior. I am looking at the motivation.

I am sorry the Gospel is offensive to you.

 

[Estrid]

I didn’t say they did. It was my ancestors, the French, Dutch and to a lesser extent the Portuguese.

All white, Christian patriarchies that rampaged through the world breaking the Prime Directive for profit.

I'd question the " most" white nations thing.

All the major powers were in the colonial scramble.

Leaders didn't stay out to be noble.

Anyway- how many nations were there in Europe in, oh, 1880?
Anyone gonna claim.what most did ought to have
the numbers to compare.

 

[Estrid]

You are looking at the behavior. I am looking at the motivation.

I am sorry the Gospel is offensive to you.

I see. If I do something with love and compassion
that's sin because I don't do it in full faith that I will receive
eternal reward for it.
You are partly correct. I expect no reward. I just do what is
right because it's right. Doing good for the sake of doing
good is only sinful to someone with a .............mind.
You fill in the blank.

As for what offends me?
Do you feel some compulsion to keep making up
things about me?
Does your god and morality instruct you to behave so?
Are you that offended by the commandment against
bearing false witness?

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

Look at your first claim.
Then-
Grab the goal post and run!

As for what offends me?
Do you feel some compulsion to keep making up
things about me?
Are you that offended by the commandment against
bearing false witness?

IDK, you seem to have a problem with what I am saying, which I don't think is unreasonable. You must believe that man is basically good, but a 30-minute skim through history will tell you that is not true.

Good luck.

 

[Estrid]

IDK, you seem to have a problem with what I am saying, which I don't think is unreasonable. You must believe that man is basically good, but a 30-minute skim through history will tell you that is not true.

Good luck.

Yu my not be tired of making things up about me,
but I am done with it.

 

[Larniavc]

I'd question the " most" white nations thing.

All the major powers were in the colonial scramble.

Leaders didn't stay out to be noble.

Anyway- how many nations were there in Europe in, oh, 1880?
Anyone gonna claim.what most did ought to have
the numbers to compare.

Yeah, you’re probably right. My education in history is largely limited to Europe.

 

[trophy33]

All white, Christian patriarchies that rampaged through the world breaking the Prime Directive for profit.

That does not mean much. You can find also African, Asian, Middle Eastern or American Native nations and tribes doing horrible things. Its not a "white" or a "Christian" thing to do evil.

Christian European nations were simply more advanced technologically and philosophically, more explorers and had a better structured society that allowed for the global scale.

All other current modern developed parts of the world had to accept some of the European science, tech, philosophical views and lifestyle, if they wanted to develop to the similar level.

But lately, it seems the new controversial ideas and life styles be USA to the rest of the Western world do not work well and divide society, making it weaker compared to some other parts of the world. Which is kind of the topic I tried this thread to be about.

 

[Larniavc]

Christian European nations were simply more advanced technologically and philosophically, more explorers and had a better structured society that allowed for the global scale.

You realise that this is only true because the Crusade knocked the Arab world into a spiral of religiously dominated dark age.

Philosophically and technologically they were far ahead of the western world. What with western Europe being enmeshed as it was in religious doctrine and ignorance. It would the western world seven centuries to reach that level of cultural sophistication.

 

[Estrid]

That does not mean much. You can find also African, Asian, Middle Eastern or American Native nations and tribes doing horrible things. Its not a "white" or a "Christian" thing to do evil.

Christian European nations were simply more advanced technologically and philosophically, more explorers and had a better structured society that allowed for the global scale.

All other current modern developed parts of the world had to accept some of the European science, tech, philosophical views and lifestyle, if they wanted to develop to the similar level.

But lately, it seems the new controversial ideas and life styles be USA to the rest of the Western world do not work well and divide society, making it weaker compared to some other parts of the world. Which is kind of the topic I tried this thread to be about.

So very advanced.

In China people were writing poetry while euros were
still poking at cave bears with sharp sticks.

Never found that a reason to rampage Europe or
force open a port for narcotics sale.

There is no excusing the monumentally savage
behaviour of the European conquistadors and
colonial/ imperiists.

 

[trophy33]

You realise that this is only true because the Crusade knocked the Arab world into a spiral of religiously dominated dark age.

Philosophically and technologically they were far ahead of the western world. What with western Europe being enmeshed as it was in religious doctrine and ignorance. It would the western world seven centuries to reach that level of cultural sophistication.

Nothing is only about just one thing. Its natural that various cultures exchange knowledge. But knowledge is not everything, you must have many more other things in place to be able to do something with it.

And Europe was not just West, but also East (Byzantian empire). The west was decimated after the fall of Rome in 476, but the Eastern Roman Empire lasted till 1453 (then conquered by Turks).

Also, the West was not as "dark" as people think. Just look at old cathedrals. Impressive buildings. Sure, it was not a 21st century society, but still, they survived, were able to defend against Arabs and developed into the global powers.

 

[trophy33]

So very advanced.

In China people were writing poetry while euros were
still poking at cave bears with sharp sticks.

Never found that a reason to rampage Europe or
force open a port for narcotics sale.

There is no excusing the monumentally savage
behaviour of the European conquistadors and
colonial/ imperiists.

Not sure why you break sentences like that. Are you translating some poem?

If you are a Chinese communist, then communism is an imported idea. And 99% things you are using have been invented outside of China, mostly by Europeans and their descendants.

Regarding "savage behavior" - learn about your own savage behavior first. During the Chinese "revolution", during the WWII etc. What is happening to Uyghurs or to Christians even today.

Did you know that about 50 millions have lost their lives during forced collectivization in China? Do you know how many people this is? Your knowledge about your own country is being politically censored.

Hong Kong can consider itself to be veeeery lucky to be under the British rule and protection in those times. The civic liberties Hong Kong has, it has got it from Europeans. But you are losing it fast since you have been returned to China. Your free market, democracy, constitution, even your judicial system can be traced back to Rome or Greece.

 

[Larniavc]

but still, they survived, were able to defend against Arabs and developed into the global powers.

Hold on: point of order.

How many Crusades did the Arab world launch into the Christian world?

 

[Estrid]

Not sure why you break sentences like that. Are you translating some poem?

If you are a Chinese communist, then communism is an imported idea. And 99% things you are using have been invented outside of China, mostly by Europeans and their descendants.

Regarding "savage behavior" - learn about your own savage behavior first. During the Chinese "revolution", during the WWII etc. What is happening to Uyghurs or to Christians even today.

Did you know that about 50 millions have lost their lives during forced collectivization in China? Do you know how many people this is? Your knowledge about your own country is being politically censored.

Hong Kong can consider itself to be veeeery lucky to be under the British rule and protection in those times. The civic liberties Hong Kong has, it has got it from Europeans. But you are losing it fast since you have been returned to China. Your free market, democracy, constitution, even your judicial system can be traced back to Rome or Greece.

My post was counterpoint to the post I
responded to. I made no more effort at a
fully balanced and nuanced statement than
you did.
Born in Hong Kong and most of my life here, I
am well informed on the history you refer to.

As for luck and British influence in said crown
colony, my existence and the rather preposterous
success of my family is entirely due to British
presence.
If they would like to come back now, I'd say,
get started yesterday.
None of that makes any of what I said earlier
less true or improves your one sided presentation.

But I doubt there's much daylight between your
overall view and mine.

My poesy is a result of using a tiny device that
looks one way when written and formats quite
differently when I press "enter". Hope it does not
make it hard to read. : D

 

[Estrid]

Hold on: point of order.

How many Crusades did the Arab world launch into the Christian world?

Equal to the number of Chinese gunboats in
the Seine, Thames, and Mississippi.

 

[Larniavc]

Equal to the number of Chinese gunboats in
the Seine, Thames, and Mississippi.

Yeah, the opium wars and iron class are a black mark, so often forgotten by my more jingoistic countrymen.

 

[Estrid]

Yeah, the opium wars and iron class are a black mark, so often forgotten by my more jingoistic countrymen.

People generally are not better than they need to be.

 

[Larniavc]

People generally are not better than they need to be.

That's what makes me such a surprising exception. I'm very humble, too. Exceptionally so.

 

[trophy33]

Hold on: point of order.

How many Crusades did the Arab world launch into the Christian world?

Their attacks and conquests are not called "crusades". They are called "jihad".

So, zero crusades, many jihads.